*Classical Composers: The Best

[Calva dosser]

Liszt and Beethoven were 19th century romantics though. Hardly to be contrasted with the likes of Bach, Handel or Vivaldi, who were, I believe 'classical'.

The poll is, imo, a bit misleading.

 

[Dr J]

Eh?

The colloquial term for European Art Music is simply 'Classical Music'. This is confusing because there is also the classical period in European Art Music - approximately between 1750 - 1828(ish).

Beethoven was technically more of a Classical composer but he adumbrated quite a few of the traits that would define Romanticism.

Bach and Handel represent the last of the Baroque composers.

 

[Dr J]

Just to clarify:

Bach, Handel and Vivaldi were all Baroque composers. Haydn and Mozart were Classical composers.

 

[Calva dosser]

I see. I always thought 'Baroque' was just a posh term for classical.

Although I would suggest that Beethoven's third does more than 'hint' at romanticism. Infact I'd say it was well on the way to nationalism, (as in Smetana and Sibelius) all be it by proxy, in that he started off trying to glorify Boney, and threw a hissy-fit. By the time he got to the number '9's he was well romantic. If it had pictures, it would've been a musical!

Although, mercifully, as you will have realised, it has been 33 years since I did 'O' level music. There are some experts on here, I know. I'd like to see more old git music threads, if only for info. (Looks at ancient Vinyl of Smetana's Festive Symphony, and wonders whether playing something with 'Deutschland Deutschland' in it might miff the neighbours).

 

[Madusa]

wagner and straus

 

[han]

My faves are Byrd, Bach, Brahms, Stravinsky, Satie, Poulenc, Debussy, Prokofiev, Gershwin (I'd argue he was classical tbh!), Reich.

That'll do!

Note the big gap where the yukky Mozart and yawnsome Haydn fit into the classical period. (apart from his requiem, I really cannot bear Mozart).

 

[Louloubelle]

I can't say they're the best, but my favourites are

Bach
Hildegard of Bingen
Claude Debussy
Charles Ives
Samuel Coleridge-Taylor
Arvo Pärt
Hector Berlioz


There's loads of others I like and masses I don't know enough about but these are the ones I listen to most

 

[han]

Oooh! I've never heard of Hildegard of Bingen or Arvo Pärt....<runs off to wikipedia>

That reminds me. I really love Aaron Copland's music too. I know it's a tad cheesy - but stuff like 'Rodeo' and ' Fanfare for the Common Man' and 'Appalacian Spring' are so incredibly expansive and epic-sounding they make me come over all funny.

 

[CharlieAddict]

would be mozart but he's gonna be popular as hell ain't he?
so me go for hadyn.
i'd vote wagner but he and my fav philosopher had a fall out.

 

[Knotted]

My favourites of the minute:

Charles Ives
Eric Satie
Edgar Varese
Olivier Messiaen

Though I see I've been beaten to it on Ives & Satie

 

[ohmyliver]

Another vote for Satie...

but I also love Britten... his war requiem is beautifull....
oh and Shostacovich (sp?)

 

[Knotted]

And the counter-argument is about creativity within constraints. Thought-experiments like comparing what you might call the "average achievedness" of, say, Shakespeare's sonnets with that of, say, e e cummings' work suggest there's something in it.

I don't know a great deal about early c20 music, but I have the impression that a number of the attempts to produce "pure" music ended up very deeply mathematical indeed - the serialists, the aleatory (isn't that posh French for "random"?) stuff...

Iannis Xenakis is probably the most consciously mathematical composer.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Iannis Xenakis is probably the most consciously mathematical composer.

Uh-huh, his "stochastic music".
It's as good as other composition methods, and better than some.

 

[ViolentPanda]

My favourites of the minute:

Charles Ives
Eric Satie
Edgar Varese
Olivier Messiaen

Though I see I've been beaten to it on Ives & Satie

We did have a thread on "favourite 19th/20th century composers", but I think it got lost in a purge.

Any particular pieces you like?

My wife and I had Satie's "Sonneries de la Rose+Croix" as our wedding music.

 

[Knotted]

We did have a thread on "favourite 19th/20th century composers", but I think it got lost in a purge.

Any particular pieces you like?

My wife and I had Satie's "Sonneries de la Rose+Croix" as our wedding music.

The composers I mention (barring Varese who's my idea of easy listening) are ones I don't know too much about. From what I know of them they are extraordinary.

Satie just for the obvious - Gymnopedies, Gnossiennes etc. Very odd in terms of pace, rhythm and counterpoint.

Ives for his symphonic work. The polyrhythms, polyharmonies and the sense of clashes of ideas.

Messiaen for his extraordinary tone poems, total serialism, organ music,... there's too much to Messiaen to even begin to list. But the first ones to strike me were:
Mode de valeurs et d'intensités (serialist piano work)
Oraison (a piece for the ondes martenot)

 

[ViolentPanda]

The composers I mention (barring Varese who's my idea of easy listening) are ones I don't know too much about. From what I know of them they are extraordinary.

Satie just for the obvious - Gymnopedies, Gnossiennes etc. Very odd in terms of pace, rhythm and counterpoint.

Ives for his symphonic work. The polyrhythms, polyharmonies and the sense of clashes of ideas.

Messiaen for his extraordinary tone poems, total serialism, organ music,... there's too much to Messiaen to even begin to list. But the first ones to strike me were:
Mode de valeurs et d'intensités (serialist piano work)
Oraison (a piece for the ondes martenot)

I like Varese for the same reason, but I like what he inspired from Henry & Schaeffer to Zappa, even more.

My favourite Messiaen (besides "Turangalila-Symphonie" and "Quatuor pour la fin du temps") is "Catalogue d'oiseaux". a long listen but totally transporting.

Satie and Ives I tend to save for when I need "mood music", there's always something that fits.

 

[Knotted]

I like Varese for the same reason, but I like what he inspired from Henry & Schaeffer to Zappa, even more.

Do you really? I suppose Varese sounds quite dated. But even that appeals to me. I'm an old fashioned modernist.

My favourite Messiaen (besides "Turangalila-Symphonie" and "Quatuor pour la fin du temps") is "Catalogue d'oiseaux". a long listen but totally transporting.

I've missed out on Messiaen. There's just so much that's so diverse and so out on a limb but its still highly influential. Its mind boggling.

 

[Dr J]

Messiaen for his extraordinary tone poems,

Messiaen never wrote a tone poem.

 

[Dr J]

Do you really? I suppose Varese sounds quite dated. But even that appeals to me. I'm an old fashioned modernist.



I've missed out on Messiaen. There's just so much that's so diverse and so out on a limb but its still highly influential. Its mind boggling.

Messiaen's not really diverse. He's good in small doses but it gets repetative after a while. He tended to repeat himself in his old age, too.

Still, there is music of his that I love.

And BTW I decided I had better bump this thread as an antidote to dubversion's emetic taste in 'music'.

 

[Dr J]

Might be, i've heard nothing by those on your poll. I'd probably like some of them - but i'm not going to feel middle class guilt if i don't.

Nah but you should feel guilty for having the aesthetic judgement of a wombat.

 

[Dr J]

i knew i should have done this thread in general - too many brainiacs here...

Nah, most of what has been said on here has been bollocks.

 

[brokenyolk]

And BTW I decided I had better bump this thread as an antidote to dubversion's emetic taste in 'music'.

why?

think you may be looking for a fight, and a dull one at that.

 

[Dubversion]

And BTW I decided I had better bump this thread as an antidote to dubversion's emetic taste in 'music'.

hmm.

you're not giving yourself away a little TOO quickly are you?

 

[Fruitloop]

ye gods, it's a dialogue with the dead.