DJWrongspeed
radio eros
It's a small step though. Better than no prosecution as in the past?
Chris Kaba, 24, shot dead by police in Streatham, Mon 5th Sept 2022
- Thread starter GarveyLives
- Start date
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
The prosecution was flawed. It was never murder, it may have been manslaughter, and that is what should, in my opinion, have been charged.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Is there a point there struggling to get out?The jury, having heard all the evidence, returned a 'Not Guilty' verdict in less than three hours.
Met police officer who shot Chris Kaba acquitted of murder
Martyn Blake shot Kaba, who was unarmed, in 2022, saying he feared Kaba would use his Audi to kill officerswww.theguardian.com
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Only that you, not having heard all the evidence, seem to be of the view that the outcome has been a miscarriage of justice.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I'm of the opinion that there has been no justice.
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
Understood, normally trials go from murder to manslaughter so it's an odd case for sure.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Could you explain why please, quoting the appropriate sections of the evidence presented to the jury which you feel were incorrect or incomplete?
The policeman was charged with murder. The prosecution and defence presented their evidence, the jury came to a decision. As far as I'm aware, this has been the process in criminal trials for over a century.
Do you feel that all trials conducted under this process are flawed, or just in this instance?
I'm sorry, but just because the verdict of the jury wasn't what you wanted, that does not mean the case was flawed.
I do think that the charge should have been murder or manslaughter, the policeman didn't go out that day with the intent of killing someone. It is entirely possible that a manslaughter charge could have engendered a different verdict. If murder was the sole charge, then it leaves the jury with nowhere to go with regard to manslaughter.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
The CPS have questions to answer on this.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I know yer man was charged with murder. It has after all been mentioned once or twice on the thread. And yeh maybe it was the wrong charge to get a result. But I've never had much confidence in the ability of the cps in cases like these. I don't see the judge's summing up reported anywhere, that might have some answers. However time and again cops get off despite all the evidence. Perhaps the family will launch a civil suit: if so I'd be happy to donate toward legal costs
Well like what? I cant think what more evidence they could bring? it reach the freashold for a murder charge ; they employed a leading KC. The jury ( the foundation of our criminal justice system ) came to a decision.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I've no doubt that there will be more detail in tomorrow's press.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
They could have given the jury an alternative charge. Making it murder or nothing was, in my view at least, a mistake.
Sweet FA
✪ Three rounds Lord, in my .44 ✪
Not all jury trials are flawed but hundreds are. This is just majority verdict cases: Majority verdicts facilitated 56 miscarriages of justice in England and Wales, charity says. You must know of many more where juries have been directed etc etc.
I don't know enough about the details here but if you think the CPS messed it up and a manslaughter charge was possible then there's been a miscarriage of the system somewhere. Ultimately it means there's (another) trigger happy copper still at large.
Well i think the CPS would have considered manslaughter v murder, they no doubt had advice theselves on it however they must have felt to have enough evidence to realisitcly secure a conviction. their guidence on their website states 'Assessing whether there is a realistic prospect of conviction includes an objective assessment of the evidence including the likelihood of this defence being raised and of the prosecution disproving it to the criminal standard'. Like you i would like to read the judge's summing up.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
I doubt this copper will ever be carrying a gun again on the job.
We don't have trigger happy coppers, unlike across the pond, in the year ending in 2023, armed response attended on almost 13,500 occasions, only 10 times were their guns discharged, resulting in 2 or 3 deaths. It's so rare, which is why it generates so much media attention.
In this case, the car Kaba was driving had been flagged up as having been involved in a shooting the night before, surely we can all agree that needed following up?
The cops, putting their own lives at risk, brought it to a stand still, by boxing it in, then surrounding it by armed cops, surely we can all agree that's the time to get out the fucking car, with your hands up?
This twat decided to ram the cop cars and try to break out of the box, the crazy bastard, and in a second or two, the cop decided the situation was too risky and discharged his gun.
A murder charge was never going to be agreed by a jury, I think they should have been given the manslaughter option, but I am far from convinced they would have even convicted on that, TBH.
It wasn't exactly an ordinary police stop I imagine with blue lights behind him a police car coming head on towards him he was probably scared stiff.So I don't think we can say he was acting like a " crazy bastard".
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
That's how being boxed in by cops work, it happens all the time, there's nothing unusual in that whatsoever.
Having been 'boxed' and surrounded by armed cops, you have to be a crazy bastard to think ramming the cop cars in an attempt to escape was a good idea.
Sweet FA
✪ Three rounds Lord, in my .44 ✪
'we' as young black men living in south London? Dunno, I mean I would but I'm a middle aged white man. Or maybe I'd freeze.
aka 'Chris Kaba, young man killed by the police'
Someone said on another thread that the words we write are searchable. Whatever you think about the case, you could be less of a dick about how you discuss it.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
Unless they overcharged deliberately which was suggestion in the trayon killing and that vigilante kid with the ar15.
Mr Kaba was attempting to smash his way out of a roadblock either because he thought he could get away or panic the coppers defense was he belived Mr kaba was attemping to use his car as a weapon .
The pice aren't trigger happy they have killed 88 people since 1990 hardly trigger happy.
Once faced a stolen car in Cyprus it stopped at a road block if the driver and friends had made any attempt to flee they'd have been hit with over a hundred rounds 8 soldiers with Sa80 and two ferret armoured cars with belt fed machine guns now that's trigger happy!
Florida police in 6 years shot over 800 people including bystanders!
Mr Kaba was attempting to smash his way out of a roadblock either because he thought he could get away or panic the coppers defense was he belived Mr kaba was attemping to use his car as a weapon .
The pice aren't trigger happy they have killed 88 people since 1990 hardly trigger happy.
Once faced a stolen car in Cyprus it stopped at a road block if the driver and friends had made any attempt to flee they'd have been hit with over a hundred rounds 8 soldiers with Sa80 and two ferret armoured cars with belt fed machine guns now that's trigger happy!
Florida police in 6 years shot over 800 people including bystanders!
story
Changing the facts
You’re not normally an arse cupid_stunt . Why now, on this issue?
You could have made the same point without the derision.
I live very close to where this happened.
The night of the shooting I posted on the helicopter thread saying that it was unusual to hear the copters up here and I suspected something was wrong.
After it happened the whole area was sullen and jumpy for a while.
The cops were really fucking rude. See my post 122 on this thread, but there were other instances too.
They seemed to use it as an opportunity to assert their authority, just by barrelling about and “having a friendly chat” with young Black people who clearly wanted nothing to do with them.
Some may suggest that they were doing social policing and making their presence felt, doing their job. It didn’t look like that to me, it looked like pushing into a community still hurting from being hit with the shitty stick once again.
Groups of young black men gathering in certain spots have every right to do so. Being approached by coppers never happens unless there’s been some kind of incident.
The gap between the intention and the way it’s received is vast and the police don’t understand it.
I’m baffled by how stupid local cops are about local issues, local people, local culture.
An incident like this has to be viewed with knowledge understanding and appreciation of the complex underlying issues and long history of police violence and death of Black men in custody, and all the rest of it.
Of course the court case is big and important, and we need to see more information and detail. But that’s not the only important part of the story.
Yet another Black man killed by police, and apparently no one being held to account.
Yet another painful event that must now be absorbed by the local community.
Sarah Everard was abducted very close to here as well. By a copper. The area was under close scrutiny by the police until that camera footage was seen and Couzens was identified. Of course it’s a wildly different story, but these two things, both perpetrated by cops, both local, one (the victim being white) results in a conviction and other (victim being Black) doesn’t. Things are weighted differently depending on the colour of your skin. It’s not logical and they’re not comparable, but it adds to sum of hurt.
You could have made the same point without the derision.
I live very close to where this happened.
The night of the shooting I posted on the helicopter thread saying that it was unusual to hear the copters up here and I suspected something was wrong.
After it happened the whole area was sullen and jumpy for a while.
The cops were really fucking rude. See my post 122 on this thread, but there were other instances too.
They seemed to use it as an opportunity to assert their authority, just by barrelling about and “having a friendly chat” with young Black people who clearly wanted nothing to do with them.
Some may suggest that they were doing social policing and making their presence felt, doing their job. It didn’t look like that to me, it looked like pushing into a community still hurting from being hit with the shitty stick once again.
Groups of young black men gathering in certain spots have every right to do so. Being approached by coppers never happens unless there’s been some kind of incident.
The gap between the intention and the way it’s received is vast and the police don’t understand it.
I’m baffled by how stupid local cops are about local issues, local people, local culture.
An incident like this has to be viewed with knowledge understanding and appreciation of the complex underlying issues and long history of police violence and death of Black men in custody, and all the rest of it.
Of course the court case is big and important, and we need to see more information and detail. But that’s not the only important part of the story.
Yet another Black man killed by police, and apparently no one being held to account.
Yet another painful event that must now be absorbed by the local community.
Sarah Everard was abducted very close to here as well. By a copper. The area was under close scrutiny by the police until that camera footage was seen and Couzens was identified. Of course it’s a wildly different story, but these two things, both perpetrated by cops, both local, one (the victim being white) results in a conviction and other (victim being Black) doesn’t. Things are weighted differently depending on the colour of your skin. It’s not logical and they’re not comparable, but it adds to sum of hurt.
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hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
Yeah, having been on the jury for a murder case, the argument the prosecution made was very much "we think this person is a murderer and you should convict them of that, but if you don't think it counts as murder then you should find them guilty of manslaughter instead." Since the CPS definitely have the ability to charge cases that way, it'd be a bit baffling for them to do anything else.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Can you tell me how you would get out of a car with your hands up pls.
zedr
new but not *that* new
I think if people on here are going to make allowances for why Martyn Blake had to shoot Chris Kaba in the head and kill him they should afford Chris Kaba the same and not buy the police's line that he deserved to be shot at by trying to drive out of being boxed in.
Another black man has been killed in police custody. Another family unnecessarily left distraught. The police have once again closed ranks and complained about the scrutiny.
There is understandably a lot of hurt and upset and anger about this case. A reminder that there is the demo this Saturday at noon in Trafalgar Square supporting families who have lost friends in police custody over the past 30 years. United Families & Friends (@uffcampaign) • Instagram photos and videos
Another black man has been killed in police custody. Another family unnecessarily left distraught. The police have once again closed ranks and complained about the scrutiny.
There is understandably a lot of hurt and upset and anger about this case. A reminder that there is the demo this Saturday at noon in Trafalgar Square supporting families who have lost friends in police custody over the past 30 years. United Families & Friends (@uffcampaign) • Instagram photos and videos
Unfortunately suspect this is because police are never local to the area and so seem to treat around here mostly with derision.
Very weird quote at the end of this article saying the police are unable to give accurate information about stressful situations.
www.theguardian.com
What we now know about the 13 seconds before Chris Kaba was shot
Met officer Martyn Blake has been cleared of murder but questions remain about police and the use of lethal force
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Manslaughter means no intent to kill. If you shoot someone, then you intend to kill them.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
And yet they habitually require members of the public to do just that, and then use any discrepancies as evidence against them.
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Doesn't mean that the coppers shouldn't be scrutinized for their death squads operating on the streets. 88 people is still too much.
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