Chris Kaba, 24, shot dead by police in Streatham, Mon 5th Sept 2022

[ViolentPanda]

Around 2006 I met a probationery police officer who was a former Army sniper and was being fast-tracked into a police firearms job in the Met. There was a shortage of firearms officers and he was one of a number of soldiers who had been recruited to fill the gap. There seemed to be almost no ordinary policing in his working week. I'd love to know how well soldiers have adapted to the Met's rules of engagement. Could be an interesting FOI question for someone?

A former army sniper would find no trouble in adapting to Met RoEs. This is because the Met's Armed Response officers are mostly man-babies who'd never have cut it in the army, where the likelihood of being shot back at, is so much higher. Yer Army man could forget most of his training, & he'd still be better than the Met's weekend warriors.

I used to have barnies with a former met "detective" who posted here about just how poorly-trained Met AROs are. They're adrenalin-fueled berks who haven't had to learn to keep cool under fire. They're kids playing Cowboys & fucking Indians for the most part.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I met a couple of SPG officers on Clapham Common back around 1983 - in military fatigues. Naively thought they were ordinary punters dressed up for kicks. Unfortunately a police car appeared with headlights full on, the two dudes arrested me and bundled me into the back seat between them "We'll see if he's not talking when he's been in the station a few days!"

Like that you mean?

TBF, if I saw a couple of coppers in military fatigues on Clapham Common, I'd just assume they were cruising.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah and I've got lived experience of fucking murderous drug gangs.

Do tell me how you fucked a murderous drug gang

 

[CH1]

TBF, if I saw a couple of coppers in military fatigues on Clapham Common, I'd just assume they were cruising.

That was the obvious intention(on their part). Have you not heard of agents provocateurs?

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/1984-05-14/debates/c42e04a0-d519-4abf-9df5-d83a336717b5/PowersOfArrestForOffencesContraryToSection32OfTheSexualOffencesAct1956

BTW knowing you are I do and comparing your demeanour to my own "Gentle Jesus meak and mild" approach to life, I suspect you might have ended up with longer than the two hours I spent in Lavender Hill Police Station.

I was only questioned about a murder that had taken place the previous night. Truculence can lead to a charge of resisting arrest - more serious, as I'm sure you appreciate. But not as serious as flashing your tool in the pitch dark

 

[Pickman's model]

Do tell me how you fucked a murderous drug gang

pbsmooth

 

[CH1]

Stormzy opens up.. Stormzy opens up on the ‘unbearable pain’ facing family of Chris Kaba

 

[8ball]

Stormzy opens up.. Stormzy opens up on the ‘unbearable pain’ facing family of Chris Kaba

Is there anything there to indicate why Stormzy's opinion should have any bearing?

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Is there anything there to indicate why Stormzy's opinion should have any bearing?

Its not about his opinion. He's using his platform to keep the issue of justice alive and to reflect the pain suffered by Chris Kaba's family

 

[8ball]

Its not about his opinion. He's using his platform to keep the issue of justice alive and to reflect the pain suffered by Chris Kaba's family

His opinion is obviously a factor. If I was shot by police while trying to ram a car into them a lot of my parents' pain would be tied up with what they did wrong to lead to that.

That's one opinion about what happened, obviously (and as I've said on this thread, I don't know, and the focus needs to be on whether the police's behaviour could be justified), but if Stormzy shared that opinion I think he would be stating things differently.

However, it's appalling that the bodycam footage hasn't been released yet. That should have happened weeks ago, and it's totally understandable that this should lead to suspicions.

 

[jimbarkanoodle]

Hopefully some of the local young gang members (probably known to Chris Kaba), the ones who go around armed with guns and knives and don't mind using them sometimes, will read this and have a think about their futures and whether they want to put their own parents through similar grief when they end up in prison or on a mortuary slab.

 

[Pickman's model]

Hopefully some of the local young gang members (probably known to Chris Kaba), the ones who go around armed with guns and knives and don't mind using them sometimes, will read this and have a think about their futures and whether they want to put their own parents through similar grief when they end up in prison or on a mortuary slab.

A sorry variation on the theme of he deserved it

 

[Mr paulee]

Pretty sure any family or parent would be feeling what the Kaba's must be going though.
Not sure that needs pointing out by musician in a fashion magazine, platform or not.

 

[Gramsci]

His opinion is obviously a factor. If I was shot by police while trying to ram a car into them a lot of my parents' pain would be tied up with what they did wrong to lead to that.

Is this what happened? I thought his car was stopped. What the police call a "hard stop". It was after his car was stationary that he was shot. Or did I miss something?

I believe his parents are more "tied up" with why he was shot dead by the police.

 

[Pickman's model]

Pretty sure any family or parent would be feeling what the Kaba's must be going though.
Not sure that needs pointing out by musician in a fashion magazine, platform or not.

in an interview the person being interviewed responds to questions by the interviewer. presumably stormzy was asked about this and gave his response.

 

[Mr paulee]

in an interview the person being interviewed responds to questions by the interviewer. presumably stormzy was asked about this and gave his response.

Thanks - i am aware of how media interviews work.
Or out of respect for the Kaba's and the quest to find out the truth to what happened on 5/10, he could just keep quiet and have his Press/PR people veto the question. Especially when I presume he would be aware of the questions beforehand.

 

[Pickman's model]

Thanks - i am aware of how media interviews work.
Or out of respect for the Kaba's and the quest to find out the truth to what happened on 5/10, he could just keep quiet and have his Press/PR people veto the question. Especially when I presume he would be aware of the questions beforehand.

i don't think it's respectful of the family to veto questions like that and refuse to give an opinion. the only people such an attitude assists are the police.

 

[8ball]

Is this what happened? I thought his car was stopped. What the police call a "hard stop". It was after his car was stationary that he was shot. Or did I miss something?

Yeah, seems like you did.

 

[Mr paulee]

i don't think it's respectful of the family to veto questions like that and refuse to give an opinion. the only people such an attitude assists are the police.

No, it doesn't help the police. This incident won't go away for the Met, whether Stormzy or anyone else talks about it.

 

[Pickman's model]

No, it doesn't help the police. This incident won't go away for the Met, whether Stormzy or anyone else talks about it.

yes, it does help the police. not talking about the murder of chris kaba does help the police. policing what people say about the murder of chris kaba does help the police.

 

[Mr paulee]

yes, it does help the police. not talking about the murder of chris kaba does help the police. policing what people say about the murder of chris kaba does help the police.

Again no it doesn't.
No-one is policing what anybody says in this instance. Stormzy hasn't been issued with some sort of gagging order or injunction, which in choosing to speak to a high end fashion magazine, he's broken.
He's made a choice - a quite condescending one in talking about unbearable pain, which is obvious to anyone who has lost family in such circumstances.
Public feeling (as I have said) won't change in respect to this, despite however long Met takes. High profile opinions on whatever platforms will have zero influence on helping the Kaba's get the answers and justice they deserve.

 

[8ball]

Public feeling (as I have said) won't change in respect to this, despite however long Met takes.

Not sure about this, the longer they take over stuff like this bodycam footage, the iffier it feels to me.

 

[Mr paulee]

Not sure about this, the longer they take over stuff like this bodycam footage, the iffier it feels to me.

When I stated public feeling I meant I meant in relation to wanting the correct outcome.
If the Met tried to do something 'iffy' with the BC footage, I am sure independent qualified experts would be able to spot any issues.

 

[Pickman's model]

Again no it doesn't.
No-one is policing what anybody says in this instance. Stormzy hasn't been issued with some sort of gagging order or injunction, which in choosing to speak to a high end fashion magazine, he's broken.
He's made a choice - a quite condescending one in talking about unbearable pain, which is obvious to anyone who has lost family in such circumstances.
Public feeling (as I have said) won't change in respect to this, despite however long Met takes. High profile opinions on whatever platforms will have zero influence on helping the Kaba's get the answers and justice they deserve.

you're going all 'he should have respected the family and kept quiet / vetoed the question'. for me that's policing people's speech. that's you saying what you think other people should be (not) saying

 

[Mr paulee]

you're going all 'he should have respected the family and kept quiet / vetoed the question'. for me that's policing people's speech. that's you saying what you think other people should be (not) saying

Again, no.
You've misunderstood (or I haven't made it clear enough) - sorry for that.

Leave it there

 

[David Clapson]

When I stated public feeling I meant I meant in relation to wanting the correct outcome.
If the Met tried to do something 'iffy' with the BC footage, I am sure independent qualified experts would be able to spot any issues.

Your opposition to Stormzy makes absolutely zero sense. If anything we need more publicity for the issue, more public figures using their platform to pressure the Met to hurry up the investigation. We need headlines every week until we get answers. Let's have musicians, footballers, even Instagrammers speaking out. Anyone who can get press attention should pitch in.

 

[Mr paulee]

Your opposition to Stormzy makes absolutely zero sense. If anything we need more publicity for the issue, more public figures using their platform to pressure the Met to hurry up the investigation. We need headlines every week until we get answers. Let's have musicians, footballers, even Instagrammers speaking out. Anyone who can get press attention should pitch in.

'Hurry up the investigation'

I want it done correctly and above board, not quickly because of celebrity pressure.

 

[8ball]

'Hurry up the investigation'

I want it done correctly and above board, not quickly because of celebrity pressure.

Depends whether the Met are dragging their feet, hoping it drops off (or lower down), the media agenda.

 

[David Clapson]

I'm very suspicious of anyone who wants less public outrage about this killing. We need much more. The same goes for the death of Deji Omishore. A riot outside Brixton police station would have been justified. The 1981 riot/uprising did a lot of good. The Rec was built, laws and procedures were overhauled and police/community consultation was increased. The difficulty with riots is that they degenerate into looting of shops and damage to the homes and businesses of innocent people.

 

[Mr paulee]

'm very suspicious of anyone who wants less public outrage about this killing.

I repeat, i want it done correctly and above board.
If that takes time, then so be it.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm very suspicious of anyone who wants less public outrage about this killing. We need much more. The same goes for the death of Deji Omishore. A riot outside Brixton police station would have been justified. The 1981 riot/uprising did a lot of good. The Rec was built, laws and procedures were overhauled and police/community consultation was increased. The difficulty with riots is that they degenerate into looting of shops and damage to the homes and businesses of innocent people.

a riot inside brixton police station would be better