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China's ALLEDGED social credit system (transgressions and punishments)

The eventual system will punish bad passengers specifically. Potential misdeeds include trying to ride with no ticket, loitering in front of boarding gates, or smoking in no-smoking areas.

I reckon TFL could employ this sort of system for Oyster, banning peak time travel for people who commit such offences as trying to get on carriages before other passengers get off, not moving down the bus when it’s busy, standing on the wrong side of escalators, busking with a backing tape etc.
 
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The Independent (United Kingdom)
April 5, 2018 Thursday 9:51 AM GMT
New documentary Pre-Crime shows how Minority Report-esque police techniques are already a reality;
Determining danger by algorithmis intriguing but problematic

BYLINE: Daniel Dylan Wray

SECTION: FEATURES; Version:2

LENGTH: 623 words


Being able to predict crime sounds almost akin to a superpower, conjuring up the image of a world in which masked men are scooped up moments before they execute a bank job or where back alley-prowling lowlifes are stopped just as they are about to mug an unsuspecting good citizen. If it also sounds a bit like some futuristic vision from a Philip K. Dick novel, well that's because it is.

'Pre-Crime' is a term coined by Dick in his 1956 short story

The Minority Report

(famously made into the 2002 Steven Spielberg film starring Tom Cruise) that focuses on a criminal justice agency set up to arrest people before they commit crimes. In the book, Anderton, the chief of the agency, describes this system thus: "in our society, we have no major crimes but we do have a detention camp full of would-be criminals." Whilst detention camps full of people who have technically committed no crimes is not a modern-day reality, the application of pre-crime techniques in policing is.

A new documentary that just screened at CPH:DOX in Copenhagen,

Pre-Crime

, explores this controversial technique in law enforcement. The film captures an increasingly monitored world in which every step, action and transaction can, and often is, being monitored. "Why sit and drink cold coffee in a hot car when you can just track them on their phone?" one official says of modern-day surveillance.

The widespread monitoring doesn't stop just at phones and location sharing apparently. The film even makes suggestions that in America they are in the stages of assembling a scoring system for individual citizens, such as the proposed Social Credit System in China or also literally the 2016 episode of

Black Mirror

, 'Nosedive'.

In Chicago, an algorithm has been created to predict its inhabitants' potential involvement with violent crime, which creates a Strategic Subject List - known colloquially as the "heat list" - a comprehensive list of who it considers to be the most dangerous people in the city.

England is active in pre-crime too, with a predictive policing software known as PredPol being employed to predict areas where crimes may take place in order to deploy more officers to that area. Perhaps using data in order to identify crime hot spots and assign more police to those areas sounds like good, solid, preventative police work but, as the film explores, there are drawbacks.

It is suggested that such pre-crime techniques can lead to major profiling, which reinforces pre-existing profiling issues such as race and socioeconomic status. For example, a young black man living in a certain postcode in Tottenham could be enough to align them with gang activity, despite any active involvement.

Even association with someone who has committed or been the victim of a crime is enough to be detected, as Robert McDaniel found out when police officers turned up to his door warning him he was being watched and was on the "heat list". McDaniel had never committed a violent crime, his only vices being smoking some weed and playing a little dice. And yet, he was deemed one of the most dangerous people in the city via this algorithm, which critics have used as an example of increased racial profiling by police.

The documentary goes back and forth between critics and advocates of pre-crime techniques, exploring areas such as guilt by association and the idea of reversing the longstanding stance of innocent until proven guilty into presumed guilt. Regardless of the varying stances on pre-crime captured, the film's overall message is that this is no longer a sci-fi-like vision of the future but it is already here and in use. Although as worryingly pointed out by one critic of this algorithmic and unpredictable future, "code has no conscience."
 
I reckon TFL could employ this sort of system for Oyster, banning peak time travel for people who commit such offences as trying to get on carriages before other passengers get off, not moving down the bus when it’s busy, standing on the wrong side of escalators, busking with a backing tape etc.

... towing bags as well
 
... towing bags as well


Fucking-A, those bag-dragging muthafuckers :mad:

And then one of these breezily-strolling-along-with-cup-of-coffee-in-one-hand-and-drag-bag-following-behind-whilst-looking-off-at-some-elevated-angle-that-doesnt-include-you-in-their-self-entitled-line-of-site sociopaths finally manages to cut-across your legs and mangle your stride and trip you up with their wheeled little fuck-you devices, they act like you're the one who's out of order, like you're the one in the wrong, a mad un-predictable maniac for daring to also be walking along.:mad:

When the day comes, they will be first against the wall. \rant.


Me using mine doesn't count coz I use it responsibly.
 
I don't know why anybody finds the system hard to believe - China's an authoritarian state that uses mass surveillance extensively - this 'social credit system' is the extension of other schemes that already exist.

The influence of these evaluation practices on the planned social credit system is clear. Most accounts of pilot programs indicate the existence of scoring tables that include both demerits and rewards. Moreover, party standards and evaluation terminology have begun to appear in regulations governing social credit scores. A set of April 2018 guidelines from the Ministry of Finance relating to accountants, published on the Credit China website on February 20, 2019, lists Xi Jinping Thought as the ideology guiding the system.

'Social credit' scoring: How China's Communist Party is incentivising repression | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP
 
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The social credit scheme in China is common knowledge and has been covered in a variety of news outlets, including lots of arm-waving about facial recognition and social-media rankings making social control easier and more comprehensive than ever before. Also that's not how you spell 'alleged'. is the OP on this threat a Putinbot maybe?
 
I don't know why anybody finds the system hard to believe - China's an authoritarian state that uses mass surveillance extensively - this 'social credit system' is the extension of other schemes that already exist.

There's the beginning of a social credit system in the West as well. It's a softer version for sure, but there are all sorts of citizen ratings that we don't see. Insurance companies in the US keep an "insurance worthiness" database that they share between them. In any other industry, this would be illegal. Nevertheless, if you do something this database determines somehow effects your riskiness--no insurance for you.

Or, something as simple as your credit rating. Many employers are using this as a barometer for weeding out candidates based on perceived levels of trustworthiness. How many advertisements have you seen for "credit repair." You wouldn't see those if the ratings didn't matter.

I had a clerk get annoyed with me once. He reported my checking account as fraudulent to some ratings agency I'd never heard of before. It took me two weeks to get my ability to cash checks turned on again.

And, I haven't even gotten to data the government keeps. No fly list anyone? All they need to do to be comparable is to aggregate all that data in one place.

I don't think we really have that much to feel superior to China in this respect. I expect that we'll become more like China as time goes on.

John Brunner predicted this in 1975.
 
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Which book? I've read Stand on Zanzibar. I looked up his works. Do you mean Shockwave Rider? Which I haven't read.

Yes, Shockwave Rider. One of my favorite books. I really see it as one of the first cyberpunk books. The Sheep Look Up does a pretty good job of describing our current environmental woes too.
 
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Yes, Shockwave Rider. I really see it as one of the first cyberpunk books. The Sheep Look Up does a pretty good job of describing our current environmental woes.

Thanks for this. I will try to get a copy of Shockwave Rider.

I've started reading Gnomon by Nick Harkaway. Set in future UK where total surveillance is the norm. A kind of benevolent surveillance where the state is run by focus groups. People who insist on trying to be off grid are re educated.

Its part satire. Like Brunner. A writer who deserves more recognition imo.

Also. And I don't know if this influenced Gnomon, New Labour ideas on citizenship for the modern age was as potentially authoritarian as Chinese government. At least trying to lay down the framework.

Back in the days of New Labour Blunkett wanted ID cards that one would swipe every time one used a public service. So New Labour ID scheme had parallels with the Chinese social credit system. Blunkett and Blair saw introduction of ID cards as a new kind of citizenship. It wasn't just an ID it was an "entitlement" card.
One of the reasons the ID scheme was opposed was that it wasn't just simple ID card.

This authoritarian side to New Labour is something its supporters don't remind people of now.
 
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