Treacle Toes
Time
It's all the rage.
Change UK: Chuka Umunna resigns from Labour party and launches Independent Group
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
- Start date
It's all the rage.
Paul and Barry maybe?
Treacle Toes
Time
Ya just a big softie at heart ain’t ya?
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Ooh, this one is exciting because she's in the constituency next to the one I grew up in.
I have little excitement in my life
I have little excitement in my life
Ooh, this one is exciting because she's in the constituency next to the one I grew up in.
I have little excitement in my life
We might all have one of these before long!
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Brace yourselves, is all I'd say; it's quite the ride.
Treacle Toes
Time
I know, Heidi Allen is near me and I am literally on tenterhooks.Ooh, this one is exciting because she's in the constituency next to the one I grew up in.
I have little excitement in my life
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
At least it will give us a chance to expand our vocabularies:
Who?
Eh?
Erm…
Notheardofthatone
Pardon?
Shrug
wtf
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
It will be interesting if she does, given her pro-Brexit stance.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Well what are the politics of the current LP if not very mild social democracy?
The 2017 manifesto may have been to the left of those from 1997-2015, but it is miles to the right, economically, of the position of the LP of Attle, Wilson and Callaghan. Moreover, its proposals were also to the right of the Churchill, Eden, Douglas-Home and Heath governments. The measures proposed in 2017 didn't not bring any industries under state (let alone worker) control, there was no proposal to undo the "independence" of the BoE and very little promised re the repeal of anti-trade union laws. Even if (and of course the is a big if) it had been implemented in full it would not have taken us back to 1945 or 1975 (worse luck), it wouldn't even take us back to 1995.
I don't know what politics Corbyn holds in his heart but that's an utterly irrelevant and useless question (how is anybody to prove it one way or the other). The politics of the LP (or any group) should be judged by its actions. The post-2015 LP proposed a GE manifesto that while a move slightly back towards a social democratic platform was really very mild (indeed we know that regarding state involvement in industries it was proposing a lot less than the majority of people in this country are in favour of). At the local government level many Labour councils are still strongly committed to the free marker, and are even engaged in attacking workers (see Birmingham bin strike thread). Moreover, under Corbyn's leadership the NEC of the LP passed a resolution that blocked Labour councils from setting illegal budgets, a move that even New Labour didn't make and certainly something that would have been an anathema to many LP members of the past. If we look at the politics of the new members then again we see (mild) social democracy rather than socialism, hence, why so many members of the LP are in favour of the UK remaining in the EU (in contrast to the traditional position of most of British socialism).
The fact is that while there have certainly been socialists in it the LP has never been a socialist party. Like all parties it's a coalition, in the post-war period of left-liberals, social democrats the old "Labour right" and some socialists, but the last were always a minority. It's a bit of a generalisation but a reasonable one to say that the LP was, traditionally, a social democratic party but that it moved to right and became, certainly by the time of New Labour but you could argue earlier, a (left aligned) liberal party. The moves under Corbyn (and actually there was some, very weak, attempts under Miliband) do not represent the LP turning to socialism, they don't even show the party returning to a strong social democratic platform. They are a small move back towards social democracy but are far away from returning to the LP to its social democratic "base".
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redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
TBH I think these pricks have been played by Soubry, Wollaston and co. They might bitch and moan but I'm skeptical they will actually leave the Tories.
Yes though I think the pressure on her to push for Brexit is purely down to some villages in her constituency having 85% Leave votes.
She is a survivor if nothing else.
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
Note how in all this Chuka doesn’t mention his constituents once. Many of whom are suffering tory austerity (and many also suffering due to the nu Labour council.) Hundreds of his constituents lining up at the west Norwood foodbank every Saturday morning. Local parents nicking stuff from the supermarkets so they can feed their kids. But it’s all about him.
He is a Tory cunt hiding behind the centrist facade.
Did we ever find out why he bottled running for Labour leadership?
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
If it helps, I don’t like Corbyn.
Social Democracy leaves a nasty taste in the mouth in the UK mostly because of the antics of Owen, Williams, Jenkins and Rogers. I think it has a more respectable and robust tradition in Europe because of people like Brandt and Gonzalez. Roy Jenkins was a figure of fun compared with either of them. The extent to which it is watered-down 'proper socialism' depends on what you mean. A look at Willy Brandt's achievements makes it seem that his Social Democracy was not too shabby:
"Although Brandt is perhaps best known for his achievements in foreign policy, his government oversaw the implementation of a broad range of social reforms, and was known as a "Kanzler der inneren Reformen" ('Chancellor of domestic reform'). According to the historian David Childs, "Brandt was anxious that his government should be a reforming administration and a number of reforms were embarked upon". Within a few years, the education budget rose from 16 billion to 50 billion DM, while one out of every three DM spent by the new government was devoted to welfare purposes. As noted by the journalist and historian Marion Dönhoff,
"People were seized by a completely new feeling about life. A mania for large scale reforms spread like wildfire, affecting schools, universities, the administration, family legislation. In the autumn of 1970 Jürgen Wischnewski of the SPD declared, 'Every week more than three plans for reform come up for decision in cabinet and in the Assembly.'"
According to Helmut Schmidt, Willy Brandt's domestic reform programme had accomplished more than any previous programme for a comparable period. More funds were allocated towards housing, transportation, schools, and communication, while substantial federal benefits were provided for farmers. Various measures were introduced to extend health care coverage, while federal aid to sports organisations increased. A number of liberal social reforms were instituted whilst the welfare state was significantly expanded (with total public spending on social programs nearly doubling between 1969 and 1975), with health, housing, and social welfare legislation bringing about welcome improvements, and by the end of the Brandt Chancellorship West Germany had one of the most advanced systems of welfare in the world.
Substantial increases were made in social security benefits such as injury and sickness benefits, pensions, unemployment benefits, housing allowances, basic subsistence aid allowances, and family allowances and living allowances. In the government's first budget, sickness benefits were increased by 9.3%, pensions for war widows by 25%, pensions for the war wounded by 16%, and retirement pensions by 5%. Numerically, pensions went up by 6.4% (1970), 5.5% (1971), 9.5% (1972), 11.4% (1973), and 11.2% (1974). Adjusted for changes in the annual price index, pensions went up in real terms by 3.1% (1970), 0.3% (1971), 3.9% (1972), 4.4% (1973), and 4.2% (1974). Between 1972 and 1974, the purchasing power of pensioners increased by 19%. In 1970, war pensions were increased by 16%.
In 1970, seagoing pilots became retrospectively insurable, and gained full social security as members of the Non-Manual Workers Insurance Institute. That same year, a special regulation came into force for District Master Chimney Sweeps, making them fully insurable under the Craftsman's Insurance Scheme. An increase was made in tax-free allowances for children, which enabled 1,000,000 families to claim an allowance for the second child, compared to 300,000 families previously. The Second Modification and Supplementation Law (1970) increased the allowance for the third child from DM 50 to DM 60, raised the income-limit for the second child allowance from DM 7,800 to DM 13,200, subsequently increased to DM 15,000 by the third modification law (December 1971), DM 16,800 by the fourth modification law (November 1973), and to DM 18,360 by the fifth modification law (December 1973). A flexible retirement age after 62 years was introduced (1972) for invalids and handicapped persons, and social assistance was extended to those who previously had to be helped by their relatives. From 1971, special subventions were provided to enable young farmers to quit farming “and facilitate their entry into the non-agricultural pension system by means of back payments.” thanks to Wikipedia.
I'd have some of that! It might not be full-on Socialism but it'd be a start.
"Although Brandt is perhaps best known for his achievements in foreign policy, his government oversaw the implementation of a broad range of social reforms, and was known as a "Kanzler der inneren Reformen" ('Chancellor of domestic reform'). According to the historian David Childs, "Brandt was anxious that his government should be a reforming administration and a number of reforms were embarked upon". Within a few years, the education budget rose from 16 billion to 50 billion DM, while one out of every three DM spent by the new government was devoted to welfare purposes. As noted by the journalist and historian Marion Dönhoff,
"People were seized by a completely new feeling about life. A mania for large scale reforms spread like wildfire, affecting schools, universities, the administration, family legislation. In the autumn of 1970 Jürgen Wischnewski of the SPD declared, 'Every week more than three plans for reform come up for decision in cabinet and in the Assembly.'"
According to Helmut Schmidt, Willy Brandt's domestic reform programme had accomplished more than any previous programme for a comparable period. More funds were allocated towards housing, transportation, schools, and communication, while substantial federal benefits were provided for farmers. Various measures were introduced to extend health care coverage, while federal aid to sports organisations increased. A number of liberal social reforms were instituted whilst the welfare state was significantly expanded (with total public spending on social programs nearly doubling between 1969 and 1975), with health, housing, and social welfare legislation bringing about welcome improvements, and by the end of the Brandt Chancellorship West Germany had one of the most advanced systems of welfare in the world.
Substantial increases were made in social security benefits such as injury and sickness benefits, pensions, unemployment benefits, housing allowances, basic subsistence aid allowances, and family allowances and living allowances. In the government's first budget, sickness benefits were increased by 9.3%, pensions for war widows by 25%, pensions for the war wounded by 16%, and retirement pensions by 5%. Numerically, pensions went up by 6.4% (1970), 5.5% (1971), 9.5% (1972), 11.4% (1973), and 11.2% (1974). Adjusted for changes in the annual price index, pensions went up in real terms by 3.1% (1970), 0.3% (1971), 3.9% (1972), 4.4% (1973), and 4.2% (1974). Between 1972 and 1974, the purchasing power of pensioners increased by 19%. In 1970, war pensions were increased by 16%.
In 1970, seagoing pilots became retrospectively insurable, and gained full social security as members of the Non-Manual Workers Insurance Institute. That same year, a special regulation came into force for District Master Chimney Sweeps, making them fully insurable under the Craftsman's Insurance Scheme. An increase was made in tax-free allowances for children, which enabled 1,000,000 families to claim an allowance for the second child, compared to 300,000 families previously. The Second Modification and Supplementation Law (1970) increased the allowance for the third child from DM 50 to DM 60, raised the income-limit for the second child allowance from DM 7,800 to DM 13,200, subsequently increased to DM 15,000 by the third modification law (December 1971), DM 16,800 by the fourth modification law (November 1973), and to DM 18,360 by the fifth modification law (December 1973). A flexible retirement age after 62 years was introduced (1972) for invalids and handicapped persons, and social assistance was extended to those who previously had to be helped by their relatives. From 1971, special subventions were provided to enable young farmers to quit farming “and facilitate their entry into the non-agricultural pension system by means of back payments.” thanks to Wikipedia.
I'd have some of that! It might not be full-on Socialism but it'd be a start.
Chuka has been planning this split for years now, I don't think he would have gone ahead with it if he didn't think he could bring some Tories along with him - I think this is how he distinguishes it from the SDP in his head, and he is clearly modelling himself on Macron. If it really is just that lot of nobodies he is taking I don't think he would have taken the risk.
I hope he does take some Tories, as there is always the chance that they could actually end up attracting more Tory voters than Labour voters.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
En Mushy!
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You'd have to move, mind
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
He has London's finest collection of ayn rand memorabilia
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