Celebrity Big Brother 2007

[Random One]

Iam so the same as you

By the time i have constructed my essay, its already two pages ahead

yeah exactly! i mean it's not really an excuse not to express yourself but i just get scared that i won't be able to explain my argument properly here so don't try hard enough and stick to the more easy going threads ...it's all very silly really

 

[Sweaty Betty]

yeah exactly! i mean it's not really an excuse not to express yourself but i just get scared that i won't be able to explain my argument properly here so don't try hard enough and stick to the more easy going threads ...it's all very silly really

Yes it takes me about 4 or 5 attempts to get my true meaning accross, which by that point people have disengaged and got bored with me........and then i just resort back to posting a sentence.....its easier

 

[Random One]

:d

 

[Random One]

(double post)

 

[rocketman]

yes u have understood correctly look i think my way of putting what i said was a bit wrong-i think i just felt patronised (as orang utan said) by what u said that was all ....i find it very hard to express what i mean through my writing i'd much rather talk in person! (i mean it took me 20 mins to write out that last post so that i expressed what I meant properly!!!)

I am so sorry I come across like that. I write a lot and have got good at expressing myself in written words, I'm much less good at spoken ones - I get distracted, and man do I bang on and on. In prose, I seem capable of expressing myself, but I do feel I come across dead pompous at times. It's my written style, there are reasons for it (I write a lot of fact-based stuff, so tend to a dry writing style), so it always looks a little patronising, cos it's dry - does that make sense?

The main thing though - communication's critical - whether spoken, written or sung, exchange of thought between individuals is the motor that keeps our world of ideas alive.

 

[Random One]

yup i get it...well at least all that is cleared up! communication is definitely the way forward!

 

[tangerinedream]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/6262651.stm

"Celebrity in racism shock..."

I can't help wondering why this hasn't been disected and examined to the same extent, why isn't Gibbs hauled in front of a baying media, to cry and apologise, why isn't his career over?

I also can't help wondering if Jade does resurrect her career, is there going to be a case of 'Should we all be racist now, father?' - Is public venting of celebrity ignorance going to be the next big thing?

Will we have Richard Blackwood, deliberately finding a minority to bully then, releasing a 'how I changed, you can too, style docusoap...'

I can't help being reminded of what Jimmy Mcgovern said, about modern television being made up of "latte drinking executives" who find find the working classes "disgusting and hilarious" and that being nowhere better exemplified than on Big Brother. Jade only got her celebrity status in the first place because of collective curiosity, not because she was 'loved' - Now everybodies had another good old goggle at her, the press have queued up to stick the boot into her 'disgusting behaviour' - just another horrid chav who got to big for her boots, now here comes police, camera action, where we show bad black people getting arrested for making drugs and bad stuff, followed by Anne Widdicombe VS the Hoodies, the deathmatch...

I think it's missing the point to say 'you can't ignore Big Brother' or 'it's relevant' - Television is being abused by this stuff, it's not art, it's not social comment, it's not offering us insight, it's a cheap (economicaly) format that offers us the uneddifying spectical of real people coping as best as they can in a contrived and highly pressured situation.

Art that teaches us something, art that can make us reflect and learn, gives us a breathing space to think, it roars with passion, it argues a point, it presents us with thought out debates, it offers us someone elses soul, sculpted and shaped, it is communion, it is life itself. It is fear, it is hope, it is joy, it is whimsy.

The more of this type of television the futher we move from art. Big brother is a cross between opportunity knocks and the generation game, and why, why, why would we claim to learn anything from it? It is NOT a reflection of society, it is a bizarre gameshow concept made to make money and both Jade and Shilpa have been exploited here.

So, I guess what I'm saying in the true postmodern style is, er...

stuff...

I'm tempted to say, I don't care and not even comment, I'm able to recognise that Jade's vilification is an undeniaby positive message, but I think there is a deeper debate about the nature and function of television itself and I think there is something deeply sinister about TV and class at the moment of which reality TV is the most obvious manifestation.

Hmm.

 

[tangerinedream]

I am so sorry I come across like that. I write a lot and have got good at expressing myself in written words, I'm much less good at spoken ones - I get distracted, and man do I bang on and on. In prose, I seem capable of expressing myself, but I do feel I come across dead pompous at times. It's my written style, there are reasons for it (I write a lot of fact-based stuff, so tend to a dry writing style), so it always looks a little patronising, cos it's dry - does that make sense?

The main thing though - communication's critical - whether spoken, written or sung, exchange of thought between individuals is the motor that keeps our world of ideas alive.

Yet ironically I think this programme we have all discussed is strangling the opportunities for real communication that television offers*...

I can confirm 100% that rocketman is one of the least pompous people I have met

People often think I'm a girl cos of the way I write

*another thread, another planet...

 

[Orang Utan]

Art that teaches us something, art that can make us reflect and learn, gives us a breathing space to think, it roars with passion, it argues a point, it presents us with thought out debates, it offers us someone elses soul, sculpted and shaped, it is communion, it is life itself. It is fear, it is hope, it is joy, it is whimsy.

The more of this type of television the futher we move from art.

I didn't realise that all TV was supposed to be art

 

[rocketman]

yup i get it...well at least all that is cleared up! communication is definitely the way forward!

And - you know what - that's been the issue in the BB series. YOu know, early on in the BB series, Big Brother kind of acted as a communication facilitator, but - in the interests of ratings - it became a communication inhibitor. The house - designed tp cause pressure; the choice of housemates - carefully chosen for maximum tension - and so on.

The best night in the series (for me) was one night when Ken, Cleo and Donny were sitting there talking about movies - I actually learned something interesting.

But then it changed, and was never the same after that. I'm not a fan of the show, but then suddenly this awful bullying began, I saw it build up, and then - then - I have been bullied, and while I found watching it very distressing, I couldn't switch channels because I was identifying with Shilpa, felt like if I kept watching I could support her. And I wasn't the only one.

Back to point: Channel 4 failed to act as a communication facilitator, and failed to act as a conflict negotiator - all in the interests of ratings.

Sum effect so far: international incident; a lot of unhappiness in the house - which is still continuing; a lot of distress to the viewing public; at least one 'career' in tatters; and - beyond memories of bullying and ugliness - not much learned on any side, no great experiment in removing social/cultural barriers, more a repetition of the divisive cycle.

And for what?
For ratings and to sell a few papers.

This format is clearly too powerful to be trusted to unregulated private enterprise, as if nothing else, all these events show the utter cynicism with which private broadcasters regard their actors and the viewing public.

Evil Endemol is the big story, and that's what should be on the front page, not some tearful, ignorant cockney girl. She's as much a victim as everyone else in this. Why? Because Endemol failed to act - solely to get ratings.

 

[Random One]

People often think I'm a girl cos of the way I write

that made me actually LOL

heh rocketman it seems you have yourself a good personal referee there!


just watched Jade on big bro's little bro...actually feel sorry for her coz she is being slaughtered for a lot of stuff and imo she is not the real culprit, she was just the loudest in arguing

 

[tangerinedream]

I didn't realise that all TV was supposed to be art

It isn't, but BB seems to be making some sort of claim to be something it isnt' - to be 'raising issues' performing a 'public service' in some way.

If two footballers get involved in a racist fight, we don't all go, 'thankyou football, for you have enlightened us about society!!!' do we?

Thankyou football for giving us Lee Bowyer, for he has truly taught us about the world we live in...

 

[Sweaty Betty]

It isn't, but BB seems to be making some sort of claim to be something it isnt' - to be 'raising issues' performing a 'public service' in some way.

If two footballers get involved in a racist fight, we don't all go, 'thankyou football, for you have enlightened us about society!!!' do we?

Thankyou football for giving us Lee Bowyer, for he has truly taught us about the world we live in...

Funny as fuck and good comparison

 

[rocketman]

Loads of stuff

TV as art: Not all TV needs to be art. It's OK to have variety, but the sad thing is that Channel 4 spends 10 per cent of its programming budget on this show, and that this show really has become one about corporate televised torture of people.

You said so much there, and I've been filling the board here, so i have to quieten down and let other people speak. I really think people should think about what you have written.

And thank you sir, very much.

 

[Orang Utan]

It isn't, but BB seems to be making some sort of claim to be something it isnt' - to be 'raising issues' performing a 'public service' in some way.

But it HAS got people talking - I have experienced that kind of racism and bullying at work in the past and never have I seen it depicted on the telly before - people are always banging on about how Britain is less racist these days and I always knew it to be untrue, so I'm glad that this kind of ignorance and stupidity has finally come the nation's attention

 

[Orang Utan]

Channel 4 spends 10 per cent of its programming budget on this show.

Where did you get that from?

 

[rocketman]

I can't help being reminded of what Jimmy Mcgovern said, about modern television being made up of "latte drinking executives" who find find the working classes "disgusting and hilarious" and that being nowhere better exemplified than on Big Brother. .

Absolutely. It's the other side of the coin of the thing I call 'the working class defence', the argument is "oh, they are only working class, they can't help themselves," and that's the excuse for any bad action - but it's the excuse because that's the vision the TV execs share, and eternalise.

Wouldn't it be great if there truly were to be a properly-funded public access channel?

Take back the power, and all that.

 

[rocketman]

Where did you get that from?

HURRAH
A reference here

The original came from the Telegraph, but this report refers to it.

IGNORE BELOW:

Oh gosh - I've been scouring so many reports - I read it in an article yesterday and can't remember where.

>>Runs off to see if he can find it, and will edit this post later with a link if I can, but that is what I read.

Have looked around, and can't find it, so can't prove it.
I found it in a report on funding at Channel 4, buried in there - it was a line which (from memory) claimed: "Channel 4 spends XXX, around 10 per cent of its programming budget, on BB".
Wish I could find the blooming thing.

 

[tangerinedream]

Funny as fuck and good comparison

Can you imagine if football crowds had gone up in games Lee Bowyer played in the aftermath of his outing? People going to see what would happen with 'the racist'?

just a thought...

 

[tangerinedream]

Absolutely. It's the other side of the coin of the thing I call 'the working class defence', the argument is "oh, they are only working class, they can't help themselves," and that's the excuse for any bad action - but it's the excuse because that's the vision the TV execs share, and eternalise.

Wouldn't it be great if there truly were to be a properly-funded public access channel?

Take back the power, and all that.

One of the most interesting things about teaching is we teach kids the 'hegemonic model' (control of societies by ideas and representations perpetuated by a (at best) unconcious selective media) - Yet we give them absolutely no time to consider what television could or should be.

They LOVED both Hillsborough and Mark Thomas Project though

tangerinedream - gentle subversion within accepted liberal boundaries since 2004 - shot for counter revolutionary behaviour 2009

 

[ZAMB]

Teddy has dumped Danielle. It is her fault. She wound Jade up with a snide whispering and bitching campaign, and it was Danielle's comments which were racist. Jade is 'just' a bully and an ignoramus.

Link

As I said, the source of that story is the News of the World, who hardly have a reputation for accuracy. I think, unless he makes a press statement himself, I'd wait and see what happens when she gets out.

As for Jade, as well as being a bully herself, she acts as a catylyst to turn people against each other - usually by acting the victim - AFAIR from 2002 anyway. She is the only person I can think of who has made a fortune out of being a failed contestant on BB. They showed a bit on Friday where she was in tears in the diary room - not because of what she'd said, but because she suddenly saw the possibility of losing everything she'd gained since then. She only cares about herself and her feelings - she has no empathy for others.

I will never understand why she became such a celebrity anyway - apart from the BB thing, she doesn't seem to have any talent apart from being totally ignorant. But she's had at least 3 TV series devoted to her - God knows who watches them.

 

[rocketman]

As I said, the source of that story is the News of the World, who hardly have a reputation for accuracy. I think, unless he makes a press statement himself, I'd wait and see what happens when she gets out.

That's wise.

As for Jade, as well as being a bully herself, she acts as a catylyst to turn people against each other...She only cares about herself and her feelings - she has no empathy for others.

I wouldn't disagree with that, but even self-interest can be a positive motivation eventually. I think she's going to have to truly address these anger management issues, or I think she's finished.

I will never understand why she became such a celebrity anyway ... she's had at least 3 TV series devoted to her

Well, as Tangerine notes above - it's the latte-swilling TV execs with their twisted attitude to the 'working class'. They decided to turn Jade into the 21st century's UK 'everyman' character. True or false that's what she now is, and as with any mystery play, she's now off to the wilderness for a while before her eventual return, hopefully having learned from - and changed - her mistakes. There's a lot of power in the everyman character in literature. I hope she comes back with wisdom and self-control, because that would be a positive message.

But what rankles most about this - really - is that Jade wasn't actually anything like as racist as Danielle, and the latter has (at this stage) completely got away with this, with Jade taking all the punishment, when it's clear (to anyone who watched the show) that it was Danielle who stirred this whole racist side up in the first place. Jade's an easily-manipulated person with anger issues, Danielle is the whispering instigator of the piece.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

and i think the thing that annoys me most about all this is that everyone is banging on about racism and bullying right now but about a month after all this shit ends no one is going to give a fuck and nothing is actually going to be done to change anything in society....i can't see more money/support being given to all the organisations that deal with these issues

Yep, it's bullshit and you're right the vast majority of people [who complained] won't be suddenly turning into political activists because of this, they'll just switch over to see what else is on (anyone remember the end of Truman Show?)...

 

[tekla]

First post... but here goes.

BB reminds me of two things. First, the Roman Circus. Everyone's exploited, everyone’s manipulated. Except for a few who make cash from it, or the politicians who control it and gain political capital from it. The only unwilling victims are the gladiator-slaves and the poor dumb animals.

Does BB have any unwilling victims? Perhaps Jack, who is so unbelievably dim he may medically be unable to give informed consent to anything - like an Alzheimer’s sufferer or someone with a gunshot wound to the head.

Charlie Brooker on Jack:

Mind you, dense as Jade, Jo and Danielle clearly are, even they're eclipsed by the staggeringly dim-witted Jack, a man so thick he'd have to study hard for six months just to make it to the level of "vegetable". A potato could beat him at noughts and crosses - assuming he could work out how to hold a pencil and make marks on the paper in the first place, which is doubtful. He doesn't contribute to the house, but slowly subtracts from it; moping, blinking, frowning at words of more than one letter, even frowning at noises that sound like they might be words (if the door to the diary room creaks when it opens, he gets a bit angry, thinking he's just heard yet another word he doesn't understand and vat ain't fair innit). And on the rare occasions when he opens his mouth to speak, he sounds like a leaden 10-year-old reading lines off a card.

Exactly what is Jack's purpose on Earth? There's a grisly YouTube clip of him apparently masturbating to orgasm beneath his duvet and firing his mess up Jade's leg...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguide/columnists/story/0,,1993678,00.html#article_continue

Certainly the audience are culpable and those commenting on it (including me writing this): without us Big Brother would die. Certainly the newspapers who now so grotesquely bully Jade for being a bully. Oh the irony. But they’re worse than Jade. At least Jade said sorry. At least Jade’s career is wrecked (for now). The Sun will never apologise. And we buy it, same as we watch BB. Some don’t, of course, but 8m people did – 40% of the viewing public.

Second, Big Brother is startlingly similar to internet bulletin boards, called by some, amusingly, "BBs". There’s the same hothouse atmosphere, the same bullying and personal attacks (unless well moderated like this one seems to be) the same cliques, the same public exposure, the same bannings based on whim and transitory mob prejudice, the same financial exploitation by BB owners, ISPs and software developers.

But, again, are there any unwilling victims? I think not. If you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

Plus snobby high-art v. low-art arguments don’t wash. They’re hopelessly patronising. They involve telling people, usually working class people, what they can and cannot watch on the telly. People must be permitted to watch just about whatever they want. If some prefer ballet to BB let them avoid the Channel 4 ‘on’ button and gaze at men in tights instead.

But those attending a Roman Circus, or posting on a BB, should at least be aware of what they’re getting themselves into: a spider’s web of exploitative relationships, with a few people cynically manipulating the whole process, usually to make cash.

 

[Treacle Toes]

just for clarity the she refferred to is jade not kate lawler who didn't bully anyone as far as i recall...

Some video proof of that.....Links posted here

What concerns me about the bullying issue was that an antibullying campaign took her on as a representative even after the fact she was known for bullying Sophie in BB3.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Good first post (and welcome to the boards)!

 

[Treacle Toes]

Good first post (and welcome to the boards)!

Seconded.....

 

[rocketman]

Yep, it's bullshit and you're right the vast majority of people [who complained] won't be suddenly turning into political activists because of this, they'll just switch over to see what else is on (anyone remember the end of Truman Show?)...

Wouldn't it be better to expect people to suddenly have been switched-on to this, rather than take the opinion that it will be forgotten in the morning?

The media may forget, but the true work against racism and bullying takes place in people's front rooms, the workplace, in the pub. If conversations are taking place and opinions being changed in those places, that's more powerful than any focus group or government initiative - and kicks against the latte-swilling execs and their top-down attitude to the UK public,

 

[Zeppo]

Big Brother Kills Off C4

This thread has been very good and I won't repeat the Jade bully/racist stuff. The Independent today has some great insights into BB etc..

The question that will haunt C4 is should a publicly funded television service sit back while it broadcasts bullying and racist behaviour and not intervene to stop it happening.

It seems it did not stop BB intervening to pre-warn Jade that there is a mighty backlash waiting for her outside e.g. Jade's last minute grovelling.

I hope that Jade reforms controls her anger and puts her cash into anti racist organisations. Though I fear that even this will look like a calculated ploy. The genie is out of the bottle.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Wouldn't it be better to expect people to suddenly have been switched-on to this, rather than take the opinion that it will be forgotten in the morning?

Worked in a political campaign org for a good few years, have spent plenty of time talking to various parts of this society (up and down the country) so my view based on that experience is no, this wont change much. A child getting an axe in his head or a teenager being stabbed to death by five youths will get people active watching a tv programme is unlikely too.