Bye bye MEAT! How will the post-meat future look?

[Funky_monks]

Seems to me that the most effective way to prevent antibiotics in farming would be the mandated prevention of antibiotics in farming.

People are perfectly happy to have a sensible discussion about antibiotic use on farms, but its just being bowled in to a conversion about something else as a form of professional whataboutery.

The articles posted are from the US. Regs are almost nonexistent there. None of the stuff posted is relevant to the UK or Europe. I've previously posted figures to show how far antibiotic use has come down on farms in the UK/Europe. This is largely down to stopping prophylactic use of antibiotics, which I absolutely agree with.
In the UK you have to have a veterinary prescription for antibiotics, which they don't just hand out willy-nilly. They will know the farms they visit and know how they operate.
I'm against banning all use of antibiotics, however. I think they have a place in treating disease, and as long as the meat withdrawal period is respected, then the risk to humans is minimised.

For example - occasionally sheep get mastitis (as do all mammals). You can treat with one dose of antibiotic. If you don't, it will die in quite a horrible manner (as would wild ruminants getting mastitis). As a responsible keeper, I wouldn't want an easily treatable disease to slowly kill an animal I was responsible for, or to shoot it for an easily treatable disease.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Oh good. You've admitted you've got fuck all clue then and are possibly (possibly) capable of reading a website.

I guess a rudimentary grasp of logic isn't needed to be an agricultural scientist these days.

 

[Spymaster]

I guess a rudimentary grasp of logic isn't needed to be an agricultural scientist these days.

It's always fun watching you lot get crucified by FM and LBJ but Christ Almighty, you really don't do yourself any favours do you!

 

[CNT36]

Also, a load of weird shit about the yanks not having any antibiotic regs doesn't apply in places not the USA.

It's virtually impossible to get antibiotics that have human implications here. I had to really pressure my vet to get Baytril for my dog because of this, even though he had no chance of ending up in the food chain.

It is one of the harder ones to get as it is critically important and in the US has been banned from use in some animals by the FDA.

 

[kabbes]

Something that the powerful meat lobby is extremely reluctant to do despite the clear dangers to health. It's a fucking disgrace.

Right, so regulate it and give them no choice in the matter. That’s got to be a more efficient and speedy route to removing antibiotics from the food chain that relying on long-term consumer choices.

 

[ddraig]

Yes, people conducting a discussion from different backgrounds who are in broad agreement must be part of some sort of shady conspiracy.

You've got the persecution complex down.

There but for the grace of veganism go you.

No, you answered when I asked them, simple as that
Not persecuted
Sit down

 

[ddraig]

Go fuck yourself.

oh dear!

remember when you said this only a few posts back
"Not helpful to accuracy and meaningful debate.

Unlike you, I don't base everything I say here on my feelings. You're projecting."

so full of shit it is actually laughable

 

[Funky_monks]

Right, so regulate it and give them no choice in the matter. That’s got to be a more efficient and speedy route to removing antibiotics from the food chain that relying on long-term consumer choices.

At the moment, they are regulated here, perhaps not as much as they should be, but they are.

Farmers generally worry about these things because they are constantly being told they need to compete in a global market and the lack of regulations elsewhere makes their cost of production less.

I guess the thing to do is to see if this will be in the Tories "bonfires of red tape" post BREXIT....

 

[Funky_monks]

No, you answered when I asked them, simple as that
Not persecuted
Sit down

You know how a discussion works, yeah?

Woe is you, further persecution.
Martyrdom soon.

 

[Serge Forward]

Dunno if it's been already posted but what do people think of this? I tried lab-grown meat made from animals without killing them – is this the future of ethical eating?

 

[ddraig]

You know how a discussion works, yeah?

Woe is you, further persecution.
Martyrdom soon.

You answered when I asked someone else something that's it, I don't really think either of you are each other's sock puppets ffs
No persecution
Weird how veganism angers you so much when it's both miniscule and "wrong"
Get a grip

 

[kabbes]

Dunno if it's been already posted but what do people think of this? I tried lab-grown meat made from animals without killing them – is this the future of ethical eating?

This kind of thing has indeed been discussed. I guess it depends whether or not you think the concept of “ethical eating” extends to highly processed food that is patented and can only be produced by multinational conglomerates.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Dunno if it's been already posted but what do people think of this? I tried lab-grown meat made from animals without killing them – is this the future of ethical eating?

Some thoughts:

(1) I'd rather people just ate legumes, tofu and veggie burgers etc. but

(2) they probably won't so;

(3) it would be better if they ate lab meat than the corpses of slaughtered beings but;

(4) whether or not these non-slaughter meats will be commercially scalable remains to be seen, I hope they will but I wouldn't count on it;

(5) the treatment of the donor animal and issues of how the serum to cultivate the cells is made remain serious ethical issues

(6) people are worried about more corporate monopolies over the food supply;

(7) I am too, but it's 100% a price worth paying to end the abomination of animal slaughter

(8) we need fully fledged Marxism-Lentilism - full socialisation of the means of production and the total eradication of carnism and capitalism!

 

[Serge Forward]

Aye. I'm not veggie or vegan but it seems to me that if they can do this without fucking over the planet, harming or inflicting suffering on the donor animal and not being under total control by massive corporations, then fair fucks. But this is capitalism so I fully expect all the good intentions to get dropped while profit is the main driver. Also, I'm wondering what those heavily invested in animal slaughter on an industrial scale will have to say about it and what they'll do to kibosh it.

 

[editor]

This kind of thing has indeed been discussed. I guess it depends whether or not you think the concept of “ethical eating” extends to highly processed food that is patented and can only be produced by multinational conglomerates.

It's not whetted my appetite.

 

[Funky_monks]

Aye. I'm not veggie or vegan but it seems to me that if they can do this without fucking over the planet, harming or inflicting suffering on the donor animal and not being under total control by massive corporations, then fair fucks. But this is capitalism so I fully expect all the good intentions to get dropped while profit is the main driver. Also, I'm wondering what those heavily invested in animal slaughter on an industrial scale will have to say about it and what they'll do to kibosh it.

They are investing in it as another product line.
Including Cargill and JBS.

Edit to add: I meant meat substitutes there and not specifically lab cultured meat.

 

[bcuster]

Why not start with eliminating meat from all "government provided" meals, with the possible exception of the armed forces?

 

[editor]

Antibiotics in the UK!

The reputation of British farming is at risk after its failure to follow the EU in curbing the overuse of antibiotics in healthy animals, say campaigners.

Antibiotic use is the main driver of antimicrobial resistance, one of the biggest threats to human and animal health. Reducing its use in farming is seen as critical, with about two-thirds of antibiotics globally given to animals.

From today [28 January], a ban on the administration of antibiotics to groups of healthy animals comes into force across the EU.

As a result, European farmers will be able to use antibiotics as a preventive measure only in exceptional cases when there is a high risk of infectious disease, and then only with individual animals.

“British farmers have made good progress in cutting their antibiotic use,” said Cóilín Nunan, from the Alliance to Save Our Antibiotics, “but antibiotic use in British pigs remains two-and-a-half times higher per animal than in Denmark and the Netherlands.

“The government can’t claim to be a world leader when the UK is one of the only countries in western Europe where it will be legal to use antibiotics routinely for preventive mass medication of farm animals.”

UK risks falling behind on reducing farm antibiotics after EU ban

New restrictions on administering drugs to healthy animals come into force across EU to tackle critical overuse, but UK fails to follow suit

www.theguardian.com

Farm antibiotic use

In the UK and across Europe, vast quantities of antibiotics are still used in farming. Farmers may even use antibiotics classed as 'critically important' for humans by the World Health Organisation.

www.saveourantibiotics.org

 

[friedaweed]

Any reason why you're ignoring the discussion about antibiotics in farming?

It's old news to me. I'm surprised you've only just learnt about it to be honest. It's also something that people who eat trendy hipster meat from zero impact small niche producers and butchers care about

 

[friedaweed]

Love a bit of regen ag, but they can be very smug.

Recall a lot of photos of thermometer readings at grass level during the heatwave showing how cool and moisture retaining their farms at soil level were (thus less moisture loss) than short grass.

Yup I agreed, the smug bit can creep into the marketing a fair bit too but any producer is going to push their products in an environmental impact sort of way. Bit like these loons that are feeding the vegans all this highly processed lab grown Frankenstein food like there's no transport and factories involved in its sale and production.

At least there's becoming a sizeable movement of farmers and their market retailers catching on to better practices though. Much better for the planet than ranting on the internet at meat eaters all day innit.

 

[editor]

It's old news to me. I'm surprised you've only just learnt about it to be honest. It's also something that people who eat trendy hipster meat from zero impact small niche producers and butchers care about

Jeez.

 

[butcher]

Something that the powerful meat lobby is extremely reluctant to do despite the clear dangers to health. It's a fucking disgrace.

Then why not become a vegan Ed?

 

[Pickman's model]

Did you even read the article? You've been giving examples of bad farming. This is an example of much better farming, which isn't having those destructive effects.

But you're not interested in that debate, are you? Unless it involves ENDING ALL MEAT AND DAIRY, you're not interested in how to improve things.

yes, it's all or nothing as steve marriott sang

 

[Funky_monks]

Incidentally, prophylactic antibiotics in the pig industry: Whilst not "banned" per se, it is one of the things the big retailers are concerned about, so ends up on things like red Tractor, which, if you fail the inspection for effectively loses you your market. However, the UK produces an unusually large amount of outdoor reared pork (40% of all pork produced here), which, whilst they live more natural lives does mean they are more readily exposed to pathogens than those in biosecure sheds, hence more treatments for disease, including antibiotics.

 

[editor]

Then why not become a vegan Ed?

Not sure what my choice of diet has to do with antibiotics in the meat industry, but I'm certainly striving to be vegan. Most days I am. How about you?

 

[butcher]

Not sure what my choice of diet has to do with antibiotics in the meat industry, but I'm certainly striving to be vegan. Most days I am. How about you?

Clues in the name

 

[friedaweed]

Jeez.

I can't help it if you're a bit behind with the subject. Some of us on the thread have cared about this stuff for quite a long time.

 

[editor]

Clues in the name

So you're making no effort to follow current scientific advice to cut back on your meat consumption?

 

[editor]

I can't help it if you're bit behind with the subject. Some of us on the thread have cared about this stuff for quite a long time.

Great. Perhaps you could show me all the posts you've made about antibiotics in this thread so far because the search is coming up with absolutely zero. Thanks.

PS You are aware that I've been posting updated info, yes? So whether you did - or most likely did not - post up in the past is totally irrelevant.

 

[friedaweed]

Great. Perhaps you could show me all the posts you've made about antibiotics in this thread so far because the search is coming up with absolutely zero. Thanks.

PS You are aware that I've been posting updated info, yes? So whether you did - or most likely did not - post up in the past is totally irrelevant.

Do you think the only knowledge I have about the food I eat is collated in a load of posts on Urban? On this thread, including trying to engage with you on the subject matter, I'm very aware that discussing it would be a waste of my time.
Too much of a comedy pissing match going on here, lots of willy waving.