Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Brixton news, rumours and general chat

32323684-8659235-image-a-10_1598286158043.jpg


(Source: Metropolitan Police)
27-year old Streatham resident Darius Kwakye has now been charged with the murder of the Late Salem Koudou (above).
 
Was up at Tesco around midday - Acre Lane taped off, large number of police cars/vans. What looked like a young man lying in the road, under arrest. Heard someone say that he'd been tasered. Very much as the spot from which the lower picture, above, was taken. Wonder what it was about?
 
Was up at Tesco around midday - Acre Lane taped off, large number of police cars/vans. What looked like a young man lying in the road, under arrest. Heard someone say that he'd been tasered. Very much as the spot from which the lower picture, above, was taken. Wonder what it was about?
Burglary on Ferndale Rd this afternoon police Car chase to Acre lane where they arrested ‘some’ of the burglars.
 
My Brixton story from tonight: file it under gentrification.

On my way to Sainsburys I pass a guy having a long, slow, deliberate piss on the door of Hereford House in Rushcroft Rd. Not in the corner of the doorway but right on the letterbox in the middle of the door.

I say: "Are you really pissing right in the middle of someone else's door?" He turns round and smiles and says "It's Brixton, innit? Where do you live.? I say "I've lived in Brixton for 20 years. What about you?" He says "I've lived in Brixton for 27 years". Me: "So that makes it alright to piss one someone else's door?" Him: "Yeah." Me: "Are you high?" Him: "No, I'm drunk. Where are you from?" I walk away. He follows me. Me: "I live here." Him: "But where are you from?" He puts his arm round my shoulder and pulls me towards him. I punch him in the face and cross the road. He punches me in the face and I fall over. He stands above me. "I've got a gun and I'm going to shoot you." He reaches inside his jacket. People in two of the flats have opened their windows and are shouting. He runs off.
 
My Brixton story from tonight: file it under gentrification.

On my way to Sainsburys I pass a guy having a long, slow, deliberate piss on the door of Hereford House in Rushcroft Rd. Not in the corner of the doorway but right on the letterbox in the middle of the door.

I say: "Are you really pissing right in the middle of someone else's door?" He turns round and smiles and says "It's Brixton, innit? Where do you live.? I say "I've lived in Brixton for 20 years. What about you?" He says "I've lived in Brixton for 27 years". Me: "So that makes it alright to piss one someone else's door?" Him: "Yeah." Me: "Are you high?" Him: "No, I'm drunk. Where are you from?" I walk away. He follows me. Me: "I live here." Him: "But where are you from?" He puts his arm round my shoulder and pulls me towards him. I punch him in the face and cross the road. He punches me in the face and I fall over. He stands above me. "I've got a gun and I'm going to shoot you." He reaches inside his jacket. People in two of the flats have opened their windows and are shouting. He runs off.
Shit. Really sorry to hear this. Did you call the cops?
 
Thank you. I didn't have my phone but there was a police car on CHL so I told them what happened. They shot off to look for him. Then I went to Sainsburys. Then I went to the police station and gave a statement. Just got home.
 
What a horrible thing to happen, i hope you're feeling ok. Very brave of you to confront him, I don't think I would ever have the courage to do that. Which is really wrong.
 
Thanks. My jaw aches a little. I'm feeling pretty stupid. For our safety we're not supposed to confront the scumbags, are we? Not unless we're good at fighting. First time in my life I've punched anyone. I don't think I'm any good at this sort of thing. I'll have to come up with an alternative strategy.
 
Sometimes I think our instinct just kicks in, like the time I started chasing the group of about 10 young women who mugged me... What the hell did I think i was going to do?
Glad to hear you're ok.
 
You mean explain this?:
The slaves were freed but the explotiation of colonies to create wealth for people like Henry Tate went on. Its worth reading the article and the statement from the Tate

The bottom line is the wealth of someone like Tate comes from the work of others.

Wealth is created by labour. Tate managed to get a big chunk of this for himself from the Carribbean sugar plantations. The labour of the poor worker in the Carribbean created this wealth. Not Tate.

The statue in Bristol ( discussion on politics thread about this) that was torn down was also put up in Victorian times. The Victorian bourgeois weren't that confident about how society was going. The new urban workers were restive. Conditions were appaling.

Philanthropy was one way to supposedly ease social tension. To stave off more radical change.

Many thanks to you and others for this informed and lively discussion. I'm the Minister of Effra Road Chapel, founded in 1839 and one of Brixton's oldest religious communities. We also belong to the same religious denomination in which Tate's father was a Minister and into which he was born, the Unitarians, a small but quite influential liberal church which Tate supported throughout his life, attending our chapel which was the nearest Unitarian place of worship to his London home in Streatham. Noteworthy is that the Unitarians joined up with the Quakers (also from the left of Christianity) assist their fellow Christians on the evangelical wing to campaign for the abolition of slavery long before Tate came along, and this was the tradition in which he was raised. You may recall our Josiah Wedgewood's medal from the time, showing a slave uttering the words 'Am I not a man and a brother?' This was an amazingly successful piece of propaganda that found its way into surprising places.

I agree entirely that '...the wealth of someone like Tate comes from the work of others'. But I wonder if this is quite the 'bottom line' that you state it to be? Businesses require investment, risk-taking, and management and there is value in all these and Tate was extraordinarily hardworking, rising to the dizzy heights of his worldly success as a self-made man coming from a modest family. He created thousands of jobs here and abroad without which so many people would have been the poorer and donated most of his wealth to public causes. From a modest background myself I studied at Manchester College, Oxford which Tate so generously supported for the education of Nonconformists originally excluded from the rest of the University.

I have no doubt that work on the Caribbean estates connected with Tate was as backbreaking, unpleasant and poorly paid as so many other jobs of the time, including the coal mining my working class forbears were engaged in. But we are told that along with other Unitarians and Quakers, Tate was a modest, kind and enlightened employer and this cannot, certainly in Tate's case, be put down to a cynical philanthropy designed to appease the oppressed. Indeed Unitarians have throughout their history been engaged in working to set free all of from our literal and mental chains, and you don't build public art galleries and libraries if you want to keep the plebs down. A taste of knowledge and beauty is invariably incendiary. It certainly was for me all those years ago at Upper Chapel, Sheffield under Peter Godfrey and at Manchester College, Oxford under Tony Cross and for so many over the years who have attended our small chapel built for South London's religious liberals and freethinkers.

With many thanks again

Julian
 
Last edited:
Whilst having no objection to adding a statue of a sugar cane worker outside the library next to the BUST of Henry Tate, can I please enquire how Henry Tate started building his wealth before the abolition of slavery when he was apparently fourteen years old? [this is what is says in the London Geographies article]
He was the son of a modest Unitarian minister who saved his wages. That was how most capital was raised at the time. Through saving and re-investment.
 
Last edited:
My Brixton story from tonight: file it under gentrification.

On my way to Sainsburys I pass a guy having a long, slow, deliberate piss on the door of Hereford House in Rushcroft Rd. Not in the corner of the doorway but right on the letterbox in the middle of the door.

I say: "Are you really pissing right in the middle of someone else's door?" He turns round and smiles and says "It's Brixton, innit? Where do you live.? I say "I've lived in Brixton for 20 years. What about you?" He says "I've lived in Brixton for 27 years". Me: "So that makes it alright to piss one someone else's door?" Him: "Yeah." Me: "Are you high?" Him: "No, I'm drunk. Where are you from?" I walk away. He follows me. Me: "I live here." Him: "But where are you from?" He puts his arm round my shoulder and pulls me towards him. I punch him in the face and cross the road. He punches me in the face and I fall over. He stands above me. "I've got a gun and I'm going to shoot you." He reaches inside his jacket. People in two of the flats have opened their windows and are shouting. He runs off.
I tend to shout 'Dogs piss in public' while keeping a good distance aand walking swiftly away.
 
Many thanks to you and others for this informed and lively discussion. I'm the Minister of Effra Road Chapel, founded in 1839 and one of Brixton's oldest religious communities. We also belong to the same religious denomination in which Tate's father was a Minister and into which he was born, the Unitarians, a small but quite influential liberal church which Tate supported throughout his life, attending our chapel which was the nearest Unitarian place of worship to his London home in Streatham. Noteworthy is that the Unitarians joined up with the Quakers (also from the left of Christianity) assist their fellow Christians on the evangelical wing to campaign for the abolition of slavery long before Tate came along, and this was the tradition in which he was raised. You may recall our Josiah Wedgewood's medal from the time, showing a slave uttering the words 'Am I not a man and a brother?' This was an amazingly successful piece of propaganda that found its way into surprising places.

I agree entirely that '...the wealth of someone like Tate comes from the work of others'. But I wonder if this is quite the 'bottom line' that you state it to be? Businesses require investment, risk-taking, and management and there is value in all these and Tate was extraordinarily hardworking, rising to the dizzy heights of his worldly success as a self-made man coming from a modest family. He created thousands of jobs here and abroad without which so many people would have been the poorer and donated most of his wealth to public causes. From a modest background myself I studied at Manchester College, Oxford which Tate so generously supported for the education of Nonconformists originally excluded from the rest of the University.

I have no doubt that work on the Caribbean estates connected with Tate was as backbreaking, unpleasant and poorly paid as so many other jobs of the time, including the coal mining my working class forbears were engaged in. But we are told that along with other Unitarians and Quakers, Tate was a modest, kind and enlightened employer and this cannot, certainly in Tate's case, be put down to a cynical philanthropy designed to appease the oppressed. Indeed Unitarians have throughout their history been engaged in working to set free all of from our literal and mental chains, and you don't build public art galleries and libraries if you want to keep the plebs down. A taste of knowledge and beauty is invariably incendiary. It certainly was for me all those years ago at Upper Chapel, Sheffield under Peter Godfrey and at Manchester College, Oxford under Tony Cross and for so many over the years who have attended our small chapel built for South London's religious liberals and freethinkers.

With many thanks again

Julian

Ive covered most of this in post 900 where I provided a couple of links on the subject.

What BLM has brought to (renewed) attention is this countries relationship wiith exploitation. Its not a comfortable subject.

Yes wealth is created by labour. That is the bottom line.

Here is what the Tate Museum say:

Raw sugar imported from the British Caribbean by the Tate or Lyle companies in the post-slavery era would have been from estates established under slavery but worked at that point by wage-labourers and, in the case of British Guiana and Trinidad, by indentured labour, a system which lasted into the early 20th century. The monoculture of sugar, and the land-ownership and labour practices implemented by British firms that dominated the industry in the British colonies in the second half of the 19th century and most of the 20th century, contributed to the progressive under-development and impoverishment of the Caribbean


Fair analysis Id say.

Nor did Tate do the Carribbean people a favour by "creating" jobs abroad.

The Sugar industry in this country was linked to slavery. As the Tate museum point out the plantation system stayed after slavery was abolished. The plantations were not broken up and handed to the slaves. Tate did not create jobs in Carribbean. He made use of an existing system of colonial explotation.

Im sure Tate was on an individual level modest church goer. That is not the point.
 
Ive covered most of this in post 900 where I provided a couple of links on the subject.

What BLM has brought to (renewed) attention is this countries relationship wiith exploitation. Its not a comfortable subject.

Yes wealth is created by labour. That is the bottom line.

Here is what the Tate Museum say:




Fair analysis Id say.

Nor did Tate do the Carribbean people a favour by "creating" jobs abroad.

The Sugar industry in this country was linked to slavery. As the Tate museum point out the plantation system stayed after slavery was abolished. The plantations were not broken up and handed to the slaves. Tate did not create jobs in Carribbean. He made use of an existing system of colonial explotation.

Im sure Tate was on an individual level modest church goer. That is not the point.

Hello

Thanks for this. You'd be hard pressed if you were to argue your claim I was defending Sir Henry as a 'modest churchgoer'. My point is his background and history is much more complicated and benevolent than you are prepared to give him credit for. I can see why someone so rich and powerful was a good guy is counterintuitive to you and indeed sticks in your craw, but there it is.

I have also explained with reasoned argument why your analysis that only 'labour' crudely defined creates wealth is invalid. I note you don't argue your claim again. Not even Marx thought that and its not respectable economics anywhere else.

Its well understood that the sugar industry was linked to the slave trade pre Tate, but Tate was no slave owner and the extent to which his business benefitted from indentured labour is unclear, even if it survived in some parts of the Caribbean until the 20th century and as I say its inevitable that benefitted workers both at home and overseas greatly in creating employment (something I'd have thought you would have recognised with your preoccupation with the value of 'labour') and higher wages than otherwise.

The Tate was clearly too eager to capitulate to the BLM etc lobby (with which I have great sympathy) on this and should stick to fine art. It does not really argue its case either.

Thanks again

Julian
 
Hello

Thanks for this. You'd be hard pressed if you were to argue your claim I was defending Sir Henry as a 'modest churchgoer'. My point is his background and history is much more complicated and benevolent than you are prepared to give him credit for. I can see why someone so rich and powerful was a good guy is counterintuitive to you and indeed sticks in your craw, but there it is.

I have also explained with reasoned argument why your analysis that only 'labour' crudely defined creates wealth is invalid. I note you don't argue your claim again. Not even Marx thought that and its not respectable economics anywhere else.

Its well understood that the sugar industry was linked to the slave trade pre Tate, but Tate was no slave owner and the extent to which his business benefitted from indentured labour is unclear, even if it survived in some parts of the Caribbean until the 20th century and as I say its inevitable that benefitted workers both at home and overseas greatly in creating employment (something I'd have thought you would have recognised with your preoccupation with the value of 'labour') and higher wages than otherwise.

The Tate was clearly too eager to capitulate to the BLM etc lobby (with which I have great sympathy) on this and should stick to fine art. It does not really argue its case either.

Thanks again

Julian

I can see why BLM sticks in your "craw".

Tate museum didn't "capitulate" to the BLM "lobby". They got advice from UCL. Fair play to them for doing that.
 
I can see why BLM sticks in your "craw".

Tate museum didn't "capitulate" to the BLM "lobby". They got advice from UCL. Fair play to them for doing that.

Bare argument again ...

Its the UCL advice I summarised as an historian. As I say, Tate should stick to fine art!

Every blessing

J
 
Bare argument again ...

Its the UCL advice I summarised as an historian. As I say, Tate should stick to fine art!

Every blessing

J

I don't want your blessing.

You obviously don't want to take any of this onboard as it does not fit your how you see things.

That this country abolished slavery, philanthropic men worked hard to build up business and this helped provide work in this country and the Colonies. Work was hard and back breaking but that was the case for everyone then. Wealthy men who profited from this were men of their times who gave generously for charitable causes. Institutions like the Tate should not capitulate to lobby groups like BLM.

This reeks of right wing resentment dressed up as patronising middle of the ground reasonableness.

I think I prefer Rashid to this.
 
Last edited:
I don't want your blessing.

You obviously don't want to take any of this onboard as it does not fit your how you see things.

That this country abolished slavery, philanthropic men worked hard to build up business and this helped provide work in this country and the Colonies. Work was hard and back breaking but that was the case for everyone then. Wealthy men who profited from this were men of their times who gave generously for charitable causes. Institutions like the Tate should not capitulate to lobby groups like BLM.

This reeks of right wing resentment dressed up as patronising middle of the ground reasonableness.

I think I prefer Rashid to this.

Amen to that. :thumbs:
 
It's not my blessing!

More unsupported argument, and now personal attack!

By point: and?, and not just philanthropic men. Never said 'everyone' did backbreaking work, just many others including post slavery plantation workers. Never said that either. Yes, not 'capitulate'!

' right wing resentment dressed-up as middle of the ground reasonableness'. Yeh, Unitarian Ministers and community lawyers like me are well-known for it!
 
Back
Top Bottom