Brixton news, rumours and general chat

[editor]

I like Rashid and the film is typically Rashid.Its a steam of consciousness that detours before coming back to the main subject- Tate.

On this subject - Sir Henry Tate

As Rashid said context is all. But he doesnt go into it.

Found a couple of articles - The one from LSE ( London Geographies) is good with references to other works.

Whilst the above short biography is correct Tate didnt own slaves that doesn't mean no connection. Slavery was abolished but the exploitiative relationship between this country and its Carribbean colonies did not end. Tate was a major figure who profited out of the exploitiative relationship. Which was built on slavery and plantations.

Here is what the Tate Modern/ Tate Britain now say of the time that Henry Tate was a big player in the sugar market:

The Tate Galleries and Slavery | Tate

www.tate.org.uk

londongeographies.com -&nbsplondongeographies Resources and Information.

londongeographies.com is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, londongeographies.com has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!

londongeographies.com

This article has interesting discussion of Tate statue in Brixton and the library ( reference to Brixton Buzz history piece on library). Whether all reference to the exploitation that funded the library and the bust should be removed or as Rashid points out the "context" made visible.

A suggestion made is to put a new statue next to the bust of Sir Henry Tate of one of the workers in the sugar cane plantations in Jamaica.

The article is saying that these buildings and statues are passed by every day but not noticed. The context as Rashid points out is not visible.

My opinion: yes he certainly benefited from the legacy of the slave trade so stick the bust inside the library. But there's a very very long list of more worthy targets than the rich bloke with a tainted legacy who built libraries for the poor.

 

[CH1]

I like Rashid and the film is typically Rashid.Its a steam of consciousness that detours before coming back to the main subject- Tate.

On this subject - Sir Henry Tate

As Rashid said context is all. But he doesnt go into it.

Found a couple of articles - The one from LSE ( London Geographies) is good with references to other works.

Whilst the above short biography is correct Tate didnt own slaves that doesn't mean no connection. Slavery was abolished but the exploitiative relationship between this country and its Carribbean colonies did not end. Tate was a major figure who profited out of the exploitiative relationship. Which was built on slavery and plantations.

Here is what the Tate Modern/ Tate Britain now say of the time that Henry Tate was a big player in the sugar market:

The Tate Galleries and Slavery | Tate

www.tate.org.uk

londongeographies.com -&nbsplondongeographies Resources and Information.

londongeographies.com is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, londongeographies.com has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!

londongeographies.com

This article has interesting discussion of Tate statue in Brixton and the library ( reference to Brixton Buzz history piece on library). Whether all reference to the exploitation that funded the library and the bust should be removed or as Rashid points out the "context" made visible.

A suggestion made is to put a new statue next to the bust of Sir Henry Tate of one of the workers in the sugar cane plantations in Jamaica.

The article is saying that these buildings and statues are passed by every day but not noticed. The context as Rashid points out is not visible.

Whilst having no objection to adding a statue of a sugar cane worker outside the library next to the BUST of Henry Tate, can I please enquire how Henry Tate started building his wealth before the abolition of slavery when he was apparently fourteen years old? [this is what is says in the London Geographies article]

 

[Gramsci]

Whilst having no objection to adding a statue of a sugar cane worker outside the library next to the BUST of Henry Tate, can I please enquire how Henry Tate started building his wealth before the abolition of slavery when he was apparently fourteen years old? [this is what is says in the London Geographies article]

The slaves were freed but the explotiation of colonies to create wealth for people like Henry Tate went on. Its worth reading the article and the statement from the Tate

 

[CH1]

The slaves were freed but the explotiation of colonies to create wealth for people like Henry Tate went on. Its worth reading the article and the statement from the Tate

Could you explain this bit?
Thirdly, Tate’s collections include items given by or associated with individuals who were slave-owners or whose wealth came from slavery. For example, J.M.W. Turner's Sussex sketchbooks were connected with commissions from John Fuller; Sir Joshua Reynolds’s The Banished Lord was presented by Rev. William Long; and Reynolds's The Infant Samuel was bequeathed by Charles Long, Lord Farnborough.

I get the fact that JMW Turner had com missions from John Fuller MP, as slave estate heir.
But the other works to do with Joshua Reynolds, I couldn't see what the connection with slavery was.
Not that I have any brief for Joshua Reynolds who was a society painter of the upper classes, whereas JMW Turner was rather more like Beethoven - concerned with the truths of the human soul.

Henry Tate was the son of a Unitarian Minister,, He was born in Chorley, Lancs. Lived in Streatham later on in life.
According to Wkipedia's article on the Streatham Librery, his donations were:

Tate rapidly became a millionaire, and donated generously to charity. In addition to his donations which eventually gave rise to the Tate Gallery, his anonymous and discreet gifts included £42,500 for Liverpool University, £3500 for Bedford College for Women, and £5000 for building a free library in Streatham; additional provisions were made for libraries in Balham, South Lambeth, and Brixton. There was £10,000 for the library of Manchester College, Oxford, and, also to Manchester College, £5000 to promote the ‘theory and art of preaching’. In addition he gave £20,000 to the (homoeopathic) Hahnemann Hospital in Liverpool in 1885, £8000 to the Liverpool Royal Infirmary, and £5000 to the Queen Victoria Jubilee Institute, which became the Queen's Institute for District Nurses. In 1887 he gave £5000 to the Tate Institute in Silvertown.

I'm intrigued to kniow if this collector of Pre Raphelite paintings, who had to build a gallery to donate his collection to the nation - becuase the National Gallery had no room - is edging his way towards being the Ceicil Rhodes of Streatham?

Actually Andrew Carnegie - who donated most of the charitably sponsored libraries in UK is a more unattractive figure. Steel magnate and monopolist, I'm sure his trading practices could be questioned - and his employment practices. He did have one interesting eccentricity which would go down well here though - he didn't believe in inherited wealth which is why he gave so much money away.

Not sure why Carnegie didn't get a bust in Herne Hill Road. Maybe becuase the Carnedie Library is not opposite a Town Hall. And it was in Camberwell Borough anyway..

 

[Gramsci]

Could you explain this bit?
Thirdly, Tate’s collections include items given by or associated with individuals who were slave-owners or whose wealth came from slavery. For example, J.M.W. Turner's Sussex sketchbooks were connected with commissions from John Fuller; Sir Joshua Reynolds’s The Banished Lord was presented by Rev. William Long; and Reynolds's The Infant Samuel was bequeathed by Charles Long, Lord Farnborough.

I get the fact that JMW Turner had com missions from John Fuller MP, as slave estate heir.
But the other works to do with Joshua Reynolds, I couldn't see what the connection with slavery was.
Not that I have any brief for Joshua Reynolds who was a society painter of the upper classes, whereas JMW Turner was rather more like Beethoven - concerned with the truths of the human soul.

Henry Tate was the son of a Unitarian Minister,, He was born in Chorley, Lancs. Lived in Streatham later on in life.
According to Wkipedia's article on the Streatham Librery, his donations were:

Tate rapidly became a millionaire, and donated generously to charity. In addition to his donations which eventually gave rise to the Tate Gallery, his anonymous and discreet gifts included £42,500 for Liverpool University, £3500 for Bedford College for Women, and £5000 for building a free library in Streatham; additional provisions were made for libraries in Balham, South Lambeth, and Brixton. There was £10,000 for the library of Manchester College, Oxford, and, also to Manchester College, £5000 to promote the ‘theory and art of preaching’. In addition he gave £20,000 to the (homoeopathic) Hahnemann Hospital in Liverpool in 1885, £8000 to the Liverpool Royal Infirmary, and £5000 to the Queen Victoria Jubilee Institute, which became the Queen's Institute for District Nurses. In 1887 he gave £5000 to the Tate Institute in Silvertown.

I'm intrigued to kniow if this collector of Pre Raphelite paintings, who had to build a gallery to donate his collection to the nation - becuase the National Gallery had no room - is edging his way towards being the Ceicil Rhodes of Streatham?

Actually Andrew Carnegie - who donated most of the charitably sponsored libraries in UK is a more unattractive figure. Steel magnate and monopolist, I'm sure his trading practices could be questioned - and his employment practices. He did have one interesting eccentricity which would go down well here though - he didn't believe in inherited wealth which is why he gave so much money away.

Not sure why Carnegie didn't get a bust in Herne Hill Road. Maybe becuase the Carnedie Library is not opposite a Town Hall. And it was in Camberwell Borough anyway..

You mean explain this?:
The slaves were freed but the explotiation of colonies to create wealth for people like Henry Tate went on. Its worth reading the article and the statement from the Tate

The bottom line is the wealth of someone like Tate comes from the work of others.

Wealth is created by labour. Tate managed to get a big chunk of this for himself from the Carribbean sugar plantations. The labour of the poor worker in the Carribbean created this wealth. Not Tate.

The statue in Bristol ( discussion on politics thread about this) that was torn down was also put up in Victorian times. The Victorian bourgeois weren't that confident about how society was going. The new urban workers were restive. Conditions were appaling.

Philanthropy was one way to supposedly ease social tension. To stave off more radical change.

 

[CH1]

You mean explain this?:
The slaves were freed but the explotiation of colonies to create wealth for people like Henry Tate went on. Its worth reading the article and the statement from the Tate

The bottom line is the wealth of someone like Tate comes from the work of others.

Wealth is created by labour. Tate managed to get a big chunk of this for himself from the Carribbean sugar plantations. The labour of the poor worker in the Carribbean created this wealth. Not Tate.

The statue in Bristol ( discussion on politics thread about this) that was torn down was also put up in Victorian times. The Victorian bourgeois weren't that confident about how society was going. The new urban workers were restive. Conditions were appaling.

Philanthropy was one way to supposedly ease social tension. To stave off more radical change.

I wonder what David Olusoga would make of that.
The Bristol statue is quite a different situation.
People had asked for it to be removed for years - including David Olusoga who lives in Bristol.

I did not know anyone had asked for Tate to be removed. And we do agree Tate was not personally responsible for the slave trade in any way whereas Rashid in his stupid rant was making up stuff - libelling a dead man in effect.

 

[Gramsci]

I wonder what David Olusoga would make of that.
The Bristol statue is quite a different situation.
People had asked for it to be removed for years - including David Olusoga who lives in Bristol.

I did not know anyone had asked for Tate to be removed. And we do agree Tate was not personally responsible for the slave trade in any way.

I dont think people are asking for it to be removed.

The BLM is not just about slavery.

Its , and Rashid is right here , about the context.

Tate wasn't a bit player in British colonialism. He became wealthy out of it. Extremely wealthy.

Rashid was also right to bring up the issue of who Tate really was.

 

[CH1]

Rashid was also right to bring up the issue of who Tate really was.

HE said Tate had slave plantations and the statue should removed.

 

[editor]

Disappointingly, that ‎Memories of Brixton and Stockwell Facebook group continues to show its right wing colours. I've had my Brixton related BLM posts blocked by the admin without explanation while some twat's 'All Lives Matter' bullshit stays up.

 

[Gramsci]

Disappointingly, that ‎Memories of Brixton and Stockwell Facebook group continues to show its right wing colours. I've had my Brixton related BLM posts blocked by the admin without explanation while some twat's 'All Lives Matter' bullshit stays up.

I was chatting about this at yesterday. Surprising number of people have relatives/ friends who just dont get any of BLM. Not in Brixton but I wonder how many people it is across the country.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Disappointingly, that ‎Memories of Brixton and Stockwell Facebook group continues to show its right wing colours. I've had my Brixton related BLM posts blocked by the admin without explanation while some twat's 'All Lives Matter' bullshit stays up.

i avoid farcebook entirely, but it's depressing that some of the london history blogs / twitter accounts etc tend to get comments about "how much better it all was before..." (mostly posted by people who have left london because they don't want to live near non-white people) - although the proportion of account owners who will tell those people to bugger off does slowly seem to be increasing...

 

[editor]

i avoid farcebook entirely, but it's depressing that some of the london history blogs / twitter accounts etc tend to get comments about "how much better it all was before..." (mostly posted by people who have left london because they don't want to live near non-white people) - although the proportion of account owners who will tell those people to bugger off does slowly seem to be increasing...

This particular Facebook group is an endless stream of rose-tinted horseshit, purring uncritically over the 'good old days' while moaning how awful and horrible it is now. Naturally, barely any of them live within 100 miles of the place.

 

[CH1]

This particular Facebook group is an endless stream of rose-tinted horseshit, purring uncritically over the 'good old days' while moaning how awful and horrible it is now. Naturally, barely any of them live within 100 miles of the place.

I may comment on this in due course - but had you and Gramsci noted the campaign to have the Empire Windrush anchor recovered by a diving team and installed in Windrush Square. It's supported by Cllr Sonia Winifred and other community leaders appareently.

I see reference to this in lots of media (via Google) but not Brixton Buzz.
Monument for Windrush Generation - Anchors of HMT Empire Windrush

 

[Rushy]

I may comment on this in due course - but had you and Gramsci noted the campaign to have the Empire Windrush anchor recovered by a diving team and installed in Windrush Square. It's supported by Cllr Sonia Winifred and other community leaders appareently.

I see reference to this in lots of media (via Google) but not Brixton Buzz.
Monument for Windrush Generation - Anchors of HMT Empire Windrush

There seems to have been a recent proliferation of monument proposals for the square. I can't quite get my head around the enormous Cherry Groce monolith. But this anchor proposal seems like a super idea.

If you look at the ship's history, it was apparently a German vessel used by the Nazis in WW2 during the invasion of Norway 1940 and for the deportation of Jews to the concentration camps where they were almost all killed. This was only a handful of years before the fabled voyage from the Caribbean - so that anchor might not evoke such positive memories for all.

 

[CH1]

There seems to have been a recent proliferation of monument proposals for the square. I can't quite get my head around the enormous Cherry Groce monolith. But this anchor proposal seems like a super idea.

If you look at the ship's history, it was apparently a German vessel used by the Nazis in WW2 during the invasion of Norway 1940 and for the deportation of Jews to the concentration camps where they were almost all killed. This was only a handful of years before the fabled voyage from the Caribbean - so that anchor might not evoke such positive memories for all.

I had no idea the ship had such a varied history. The bit I particularly like (from Wikipedia) is:
" In 1936, the Monte Rosa made a rendezvous at sea with the airship LZ 127 Graf Zeppelin.[12] During the manoeuvre, a bottle of champagne was hoisted from the Monte Rosa to the airship.[citation needed] "

Sounds like if one's imagination ran riot with creative license we could instal the Anchor outside the Tate, and (having first twinned the Borough of Lambeth with Friedrickshafen) invited over a Zeppelin from the museum to christen the monument with a bottle of champers.

 

[editor]

Brixton today Brixton Black Lives Matter live music protest, Windrush Square, Weds 24th June 2020

 

[editor]

I may comment on this in due course - but had you and Gramsci noted the campaign to have the Empire Windrush anchor recovered by a diving team and installed in Windrush Square. It's supported by Cllr Sonia Winifred and other community leaders appareently.

I see reference to this in lots of media (via Google) but not Brixton Buzz.
Monument for Windrush Generation - Anchors of HMT Empire Windrush

Thanks for reminding me - posted this here Campaigners want to recover the Empire Windrush anchors from the sea and erect them in Brixton – online event 24th June 2020

The crowdfunder has only reached £5,750 of the £500,000 target so far.

 

[Rushy]

Wow. Didn't realise the anchor is 2,800m deep. Good luck with that.

 

[phillm]

Sadly it's going to be a long hot summer.

Police car smashed and 22 cops injured in Brixton street party chaos

Twenty-two police officers were left injured, with two needing hospital treatment, after a south London street party descended into panic and violence.

www.standard.co.uk

 

[nick]

Where is Cecilia Road? The only one on Google Maps is in Dalston, but Met Police site says it was near Angel Town

 

[xsunnysuex]

Where is Cecilia Road? The only one on Google Maps is in Dalston, but Met Police site says it was near Angel Town

They've made a mistake. Papers changed it in the preview to Overton Rd.

 

[lefteri]

Sadly it's going to be a long hot summer.

Police car smashed and 22 cops injured in Brixton street party chaos

Twenty-two police officers were left injured, with two needing hospital treatment, after a south London street party descended into panic and violence.

www.standard.co.uk

almost 9 hours of police helicopter, possibly more than one and all those officers - sensible use of resources? in manchester they let illegal ‘gatherings’ continue to avoid this nonsense

 

[Rushy]

almost 9 hours of police helicopter, possibly more than one and all those officers - sensible use of resources? in manchester they let illegal ‘gatherings’ continue to avoid this nonsense

Not been to Manchester for more than a decade but seems unlikely they would really let this kind of gathering continue

 

[GarveyLives]

Coronavirus: How Brixton is waking up from 'lockdown coma'

​

 

[xsunnysuex]

Lots of police out there. Coldharbour Lane/Gresham Rd closed off.
This is insane!

 

[hungry_squirrel]

almost 9 hours of police helicopter, possibly more than one and all those officers - sensible use of resources? in manchester they let illegal ‘gatherings’ continue to avoid this nonsense

Oh come off it. I would agree if it was good natured, but it obviously wasn't.

 

[IC3D]

Helecoptors always increase tension. Don't know why they haven't switched to drones it probably caused more disturbance than the party before kick off.

 

[editor]

There's police tape outside the Barrier Block again, FFS.

 

[xsunnysuex]

Don't know why they haven't switched to drones.

Talking of drones. Someone has been flying drones most evenings in Wyck Gardens.
Amazing to watch at night. Never realised they flew so high.

 

[Mr paulee]

Helecoptors always increase tension. Don't know why they haven't switched to drones it probably caused more disturbance than the party before kick off.

What a load of shit.