Brixton news, rumours and general chat

[Gramsci]

The Casey report has section on stop and search. Page 322 conclusion says:

Stop and search is currently deployed by the Met at the cost of legitimacy, trust and, therefore consent. To date, the Met has been unable to explain clearly enough why its use is justified on the scale it uses it, and in the manner and way it is carried out, particularly on Black Londoners. It has damaged trust. If the Met is unable to explain and justify its disproportionate use and the impacts of these, then it needs a fundamental reset.

The several pages in report on this lead to conclusion that harm done by stop and search is not outweighed by any decrease in serious crime .

It causes significant lack of trust in police by younger black people.

In short Id say , after reading this section of report,it's an example of how institutionalised racism operates

The section 60 is most extreme version of stop and search as no reason has to be given.

Its use in this case of murder is of course aimed at one section of Lambeth population. Middle aged white men aren't going to be affected. If they were then response to it might be different.

It's not , looking at the evidence, going to catch the murderer.

 

[Gramsci]

Page 317 of Casey report

Enough evidence and analysis
exists to confidently label stop and search as a racialised tool

 

[Gramsci]

Page 318 of report quotes this research on Section 60,

. When we looked separately at S.60
searches, it did not appear that a sudden surge in use had any effect on the
underlying trend in nondomestic violent crime.

So section 60 isn't going to lead to reduction in violent crime.

 

[Gramsci]

are you a policing expert? inclined to go with them on this to be honest.
I think they're a bit more clued up on gangs nowadays - the kids advertise it all on social media - so I don't think they're just stopping random black kids the way that used to happen, rather making it easier to search the kids in the gangs who they know were likely involved.

Met to overhaul ‘racist’ Gangs Matrix after landmark legal challenge - Liberty

• Met agrees ‘wholesale change’ to its secretive Gangs Matrix after admitting that the operation of the database was unlawful • The Matrix breached the right to a private and family life and Black people are disproportionately represented on it • The Met agrees to remove the majority of...

www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk

Are they?

This case brought by Liberty forced Met to take names off the Gangs Matrix list.

This was November 2022.

So in what way are the Met more clued up now?

Sorry I dont share your rosy picture of the Met

• Met agrees ‘wholesale change’ to its secretive Gangs Matrix after admitting that the operation of the database was unlawful

• The Matrix breached the right to a private and family life and Black people are disproportionately represented on it

• The Met agrees to remove the majority of individuals from the Matrix as a result of Liberty’s legal challenge on behalf of Awate Suleiman and UNJUST UK

• Met agrees to inform people who ask if they are on the Matrix, who their data has been shared with and what that data was

 

[pbsmooth]

Sorry I dont share your rosy picture of the Met

I don't have a rosy picture but also get fed up with people who are always desperate to slate anything the police do and jumping to defend the little scumbags making neighbourhoods unsafe and killing children.

 

[friendofdorothy]

I don't trust the police at all now they have proved their racism and incompetence over and over.
Borough wide section 60 sounds ridiculous - they just want to stop random innocent people.
They are acting like we live in a police state.

and I'm really fed up the fucking helicopters circling in the wee small hours.

 

[BusLanes]

What I don't get is why there's no comparable S60 order in the bit of Southwark neighbouring Loughborough.

 

[GarveyLives]

"Ronaldo Scott, 21, was chased by men who jumped out of a car and killed him in broad daylight on Morrison Road, Angell Town, Brixton just after midday on Monday (4 September 2023).

He staggered to a children’s playground close to his home where he died in front of his mother, witnesses said.

... A family friend, 55, accompanied his mother to the scene where she found him being treated by paramedics.

She told the Standard: “The sister was shouting, she was literally shouting murder.

“I went with the mum to the scene. He was there being treated by paramedics. There was an air ambulance.

“He had so many injuries, they were trying to stop the blood. He went into cardiac arrest twice. The second time they couldn’t revive him.

“His mother begged to go to him. She had to watch him dying in front of her eyes. She had lost it - she couldn’t even speak. But his sister was screaming, it was horrific.

“After he died, the mum begged to be with him but we were told she couldn’t because forensics needed to work. His body was there until the evening.”

(Source: Evening Standard (online), 5 September 2023)

Condolences to the friends and family of the Late Ronaldo Scott (also known as Skengroy)​

Any witness or anyone with any information is asked to call police on 101. Please quote CAD3184/04SEP or contact via Twitter @MetCC.

If you prefer to speak to a police officer regarding this incident please call the incident room on 0208 721 4005.

To give information anonymously contact Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111 or online at www.crimestoppers-uk.org.

 

[Gramsci]

I don't have a rosy picture but also get fed up with people who are always desperate to slate anything the police do and jumping to defend the little scumbags making neighbourhoods unsafe and killing children.

Whose defending murderers on this forum?

 

[Mr paulee]

The teenager, who carried a stun gun and extendable baton on the day

Can anyone explain why anyone would need to carry such things?

Oddly no-one has drawn a link to this

Yob who held lockdown street party that became a riot is spared jail

Ronaldo Scott, 18, and his pals threw a party which spilled out in Brixton which spilled out onto the streets on June 25 last year. A total of 22 police officers were injured after the crowd attacked them.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Except possibly the old bill.

 

[jimbarkanoodle]

The teenager, who carried a stun gun and extendable baton on the day

Can anyone explain why anyone would need to carry such things?

But hey, let's object to The Police trying to find such individuals, lest they criminalise them for doing criminal things

 

[CH1]

But hey, let's object to The Police trying to find such individuals, lest they criminalise them for doing criminal things

One could argue that the social fabric is so weak in our area that all people want is to look out for themselves.
And then again for the Drill crowd the real social fabric is actually Telegram/Snapchat etc deliberately designed to be completely private.

I can see there is an argument that Section 60 COULD be construed as a form of detention for "the community".
Someone own up - OR everyone is going to suffer.

I wonder if the police - in questioning suspects can access information on their phones?
If they can, I would support that

 

[Gramsci]

Unless one is going to dismiss the Casey report as just objecting to the police for the sake of it the evidence is that Section 60 does not reduce violent crime.

Also stop and search causes more resentment and mistrust of police than any gain in reducing violent crime.

Casey report took a lot of research and interviews with individuals. It's a thorough report.

It's basis is policing by consent. Which isn't really happening.

It's other basis is that canteen culture in Met is alive and well whatever the higher ups in Met say

The people in London who are at the sharp end of policing is black community and the less well off.

This might be unpalatable reading for some who think police should just be allowed to get on with job without people whinging about them. As though any criticism of Mets culture or use of its powers is siding with murderers and violent criminals

Possibly mistake Casey has made is that there are a lot of people who aren't that bothered if police give minority/ BAME groups a hard time.

 

[nagapie]

But hey, let's object to The Police trying to find such individuals, lest they criminalise them for doing criminal things

Quite the contrary, we are objecting to the police using strategies that have proved ineffective and target innocent people rather than the criminals they should be finding.

 

[teuchter]

The teenager, who carried a stun gun and extendable baton on the day

Can anyone explain why anyone would need to carry such things?

Why do you ask? What's the relevance of this?

And do you think a Daily Mail article with the word "yob" in the headline is a good source of information?

 

[Tulster218]

Why do you ask? What's the relevance of this?

And do you think a Daily Mail article with the word "yob" in the headline is a good source of information?

The Kentonline website says he was taken to court in 2021 for being a knife-carrying drug-dealer

In Ashford, a controlled stop by officers on the M20 resulted in charges being authorised against a man for being concerned in the supply of crack cocaine and heroin.

At about 7.15pm on March 2021, a car was stopped on the slip road for junction 10, leading to the arrest of Ronaldo Scott and a 52-year-old woman from Ashford.

Scott, 18, of Bennett Road, Stockwell, London, has since been charged with being concerned in the supply of heroin and crack cocaine, and possessing a knife in a public place.

Source: The Kent County Lines dealers locked up in March

The relevance is that his murder is likely to be part of a drug-gang turf-war.

The section 60 makes it less likely that any stop-and-search evidence will be rejected by the courts.

 

[Mr paulee]

The Kentonline website says he was taken to court in 2021 for being a knife-carrying drug-dealer



Source: The Kent County Lines dealers locked up in March

The relevance is that his murder is likely to be part of a drug-gang turf-war.

The section 60 makes it less likely that any stop-and-search evidence will be rejected by the courts.

Thanks.

 

[Gramsci]

The Kentonline website says he was taken to court in 2021 for being a knife-carrying drug-dealer



Source: The Kent County Lines dealers locked up in March

The relevance is that his murder is likely to be part of a drug-gang turf-war.

The section 60 makes it less likely that any stop-and-search evidence will be rejected by the courts.

What has section 60 got to do with this?

 

[Gramsci]

The section 60 makes it less likely that any stop-and-search evidence will be rejected by the courts.

Is that a good thing?

Section 60 suspicionless searches are opposed by human rights groups such as Liberty. Who want them scrapped. Rightly imo

with Black people already 14 times more likely than white people to be stopped and search by police under suspicionless Section 60 stops. These stops are often based on racist stereotyping, and figures show that more than three quarters (77%) of stop and searches result in no further action – meaning nothing of interest was found.

“Instead of investing further in these misguided police powers, the public want to see the Government tackling the root causes of social issues – like poverty, housing, health and education. If the Government really wants to create safer communities, they must invest in community-led interventions which have fairness, participation and human rights at their heart.”

FIGURES SHOW PUBLIC DISAGREE WITH GOVERNMENT ON NEW POLICE POWERS - Liberty

www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk

 

[Gramsci]

Here is short video by Guardian of why Stop and Search is controversial in Black community. In light of BLM new interest in topics like this came about.

It covers what Ive been posting. Disproportionately used against Black people/ not evidence based yet still used

Need to click on watch on youtube due to content.

Features young black people talking about Stop and Search

 

[nagapie]

The Kentonline website says he was taken to court in 2021 for being a knife-carrying drug-dealer



Source: The Kent County Lines dealers locked up in March

The relevance is that his murder is likely to be part of a drug-gang turf-war.

The section 60 makes it less likely that any stop-and-search evidence will be rejected by the courts.

So they know who his associates are? So why do they need a section 60 for all of Lambeth?
It is true that the police don't even have to provide 'reasonable grounds' to stop and search you under section 60. Which is what makes it even worse, they can stop anyone not linked to the crime at all and they do.
And just to reiterate what Gramsci said, section 60 is not a proven strategy to prevent or solve crime. But it, with other stop and search laws, have been used disproportionately against the black community creating a huge feeling of mistrust and injustice which is a much greater barrier to dealing with crime in that community.

 

[Gramsci]

Is that a good thing?

Section 60 suspicionless searches are opposed by human rights groups such as Liberty. Who want them scrapped. Rightly imo

FIGURES SHOW PUBLIC DISAGREE WITH GOVERNMENT ON NEW POLICE POWERS - Liberty

www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk

What's so funny about this?

Anthonysw9

 

[Gramsci]

The section 60 makes it less likely that any stop-and-search evidence will be rejected by the courts.

Forgot you have me on ignore as I do not share your libertarian free market views.

Not surprising really. You arent bothered by State power when its used against those who are not entrepreneurial wealth creators like Hondo.

Its cut state red tape for developers like Hondo/ property developers and the State to be given free hand to deal with supposedly criminal section of society

This is Thatcherite. Minimal state for the powerful and the big stick for the rest

 

[Winot]

There were also 4 fire engines that barrelled down Coldharbour Lane last night around 8.30pm. I assume it was connected with the night before.

 

[Not a Vet]

Shift changes mean new engines come and go every few hours

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Is the Shakespeare Rd fire burning again. I can see thick smoke coming from that area this morning from my window.

hasn't stopped, lots of dense smoke right now.

 

[teuchter]

Has smelt of smoke in Loughborough Junction since yesterday evening. It's sufficiently unpleasant that I'm even considering going to north london for the day.

 

[Winot]

Shift changes mean new engines come and go every few hours

These all had full blues and twos though.

 

[editor]

Is the Shakespeare Rd fire burning again. I can see thick smoke coming from that area this morning from my window.

Still loads of smoke visible now.

 

[xsunnysuex]

Still loads of smoke visible now.

I see it. Crazy.