Brixton news, rumours and general chat

[Angellic]

Two seperate colleagues who live nearby said it was a hit n run

It sounds horrendous

Man killed in Brixton after collision with lorry

The junction of Brixton Hill and Effra Road has been closed off.

londonnewsonline.co.uk

 

[hash tag]

release your inner English person

This is not America

 

[Pickman's model]

This is not America

you can be very tyresome at times

 

[Puddy_Tat]

you can be very tyresome at times

there's no need to get cross-ply about it

 

[twistedAM]

AA reporting road still closed between Station Rd and Water Lane.

 

[hash tag]

you can be very tyresome at times

Very tyring I'm sure

 

[domestos]

After a pun that bad you should keep a low profile

 

[Smick]

Two seperate colleagues who live nearby said it was a hit n run

From what I understand, the lorry driver was oblivious to what had just happened. He dragged the pedestrian along for a while and kept going.

They’ll use all the CCTV etc to see if the driver was negligent, but if the victim has stepped out to where the driver would not have expected him, and been caught in a blind spot, the driver may not have been at fault.

Brixton Road is shocking for traffic, and many pedestrians don’t wait for a green man to cross. I hate additional regulations and fines, but some form of American style jaywalking enforcement along that stretch may not be a bad thing.

Ideally I’d turn the lot into a bus and cycle lane but am not sure where the lorries could then go.

 

[edcraw]

From what I understand, the lorry driver was oblivious to what had just happened. He dragged the pedestrian along for a while and kept going.

They’ll use all the CCTV etc to see if the driver was negligent, but if the victim has stepped out to where the driver would not have expected him, and been caught in a blind spot, the driver may not have been at fault.

Brixton Road is shocking for traffic, and many pedestrians don’t wait for a green man to cross. I hate additional regulations and fines, but some form of American style jaywalking enforcement along that stretch may not be a bad thing.

Ideally I’d turn the lot into a bus and cycle lane but am not sure where the lorries could then go.

Better designed crossings rather than more regulation surely.

 

[edcraw]

Here's a video of someone complaining Brixton Police park their cars on the double red lines on Gresham Road.

Please to see. If the police can’t even obey this what chance is there if anything else - just smacks of arrogance and a disregard for everyone else.

Canterbury Cres & Wiltshire Road is made really dangerous with their vans constantly parked on all the double yellow lines.

There’s tons of parking provided for the station at the end of Canterbury Cres but suspect it’s all taken up with giving free parking for their own cars.

 

[Smick]

Better designed crossings rather than more regulation surely.

Probably. Where infrastructure is good for pedestrians, it tends to be used. But that stretch between McDonalds and the tube is just bedlam and, if you ask me, we have been fortunate for there not to have been more deaths. I don't know how we can improve crossings along that stretch. And if we put up barriers, it becomes a danger for cyclists.

I've been to some countries where people stand at the red man, even if it is 2am in a deserted road. I remember in the 90s, being held back by a stranger at a German crossing when I tried to go over on red. It seems extreme, but that culture might be worthwhile on the Brixton road.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Today is the Brixton umbrella circle, older lgbtqs, coffee and gossip at Brixton House 12 -2pm

 

[edcraw]

Probably. Where infrastructure is good for pedestrians, it tends to be used. But that stretch between McDonalds and the tube is just bedlam and, if you ask me, we have been fortunate for there not to have been more deaths. I don't know how we can improve crossings along that stretch. And if we put up barriers, it becomes a danger for cyclists.

I've been to some countries where people stand at the red man, even if it is 2am in a deserted road. I remember in the 90s, being held back by a stranger at a German crossing when I tried to go over on red. It seems extreme, but that culture might be worthwhile on the Brixton road.

Bring back the pedestrian footbridge?

 

[Winot]

Probably. Where infrastructure is good for pedestrians, it tends to be used. But that stretch between McDonalds and the tube is just bedlam and, if you ask me, we have been fortunate for there not to have been more deaths. I don't know how we can improve crossings along that stretch. And if we put up barriers, it becomes a danger for cyclists.

Proper enforcement of the 20mph limit would be a start (NB I’ve no idea of the circumstances of the latest incident).

The pavement outside McDonalds could do with widening, although I realise that would also increase traffic bottlenecks. And the scaffolding was up for far too long.

 

[jimbarkanoodle]

I've been to some countries where people stand at the red man, even if it is 2am in a deserted road. I remember in the 90s, being held back by a stranger at a German crossing when I tried to go over on red. It seems extreme, but that culture might be worthwhile on the Brixton road.

I like how in this country you are not banned from crossing a road where you want, when you want. I think having rules around it is too authoritative.

The bleak truth is, if you do choose to cross the road anywhere other than designated crossing it is your responsibility to make sure you cross with your wits about you, paying 100% attention to all elements around you. If you dont, and you get hit, chances are you weren't paying enough attention. I dont drive myself, but it must be a huge headfuck for a (non-speeding) driver to accidentally kill someone who has stepped out onto the road without looking properly.

 

[Smick]

Bring back the pedestrian footbridge?

You could build a wonderful footbridge, or subway, right there outside the Reliance arcade, to give a fourth crossing option, as well as the McDonalds, tube station, and M&S ones, and people would ignore it and still stroll over blindly, looking at their phones. I think there are plenty of decent crossings as it stands.

I dont drive myself, but it must be a huge headfuck for a (non-speeding) driver to accidentally kill someone who has stepped out onto the road without looking properly.

There are those who, maybe as some form of nervous response, will laugh and laugh when they realise that they have almost been knocked down. That must be tough for a driver who has had to brake to avoid hitting them.

 

[Crispy]

At McDonalds, the total road width to the first step on Windrush Square is 27.6m.
Currently, 15m of this is for motor vehicles (2 lanes each way) 1.5m central reservation and 11.1m for pedestrians. It's really unbalanced though. They filled in one of the Southbound lanes during lockdown, so the pavements are 3.5m on the West and 8.6 on the East.

If I was transport planning god, I'd divide that 27.6m up as 13m for motor vehicles & buses (2 lanes each way) 4m for bike lanes (2m each way) and 5m pavements each side (plus some separating kerbs) with island bus stops. But really this isn't realistic when the bus stops get so crowded at rush hour.



What's really wrong with this junction is the colossal expanse of tarmac in the middle, and the multi-lane approaches from many directions. It encourages speeding. If I remember right, when the square was being planned, there was talk of closing off Effra Road by the church. Scuppered by NIMBY residents of Saltoun and Kellet roads. A real shame, as this would have let the bus stops be moved up to the square and relieve the pavements of all that crowding.

 

[Rushy]

Here's a video of someone complaining Brixton Police park their cars on the double red lines on Gresham Road.

Whilst I don't need any convincing about the general point he's making, I was unable to watch that past his moaning about the cars being dirty.

 

[Rushy]

What's really wrong with this junction is the colossal expanse of tarmac in the middle, and the multi-lane approaches from many directions. It encourages speeding. If I remember right, when the square was being planned, there was talk of closing off Effra Road by the church. Scuppered by NIMBY residents of Saltoun and Kellet roads. A real shame, as this would have let the bus stops be moved up to the square and relieve the pavements of all that crowding.

I agree there was a missed opportunity here and that opening Effra Road alongside the square to busses only would be positive. It's not really a case of moving central stops up to Windrush Square since most of the central stops are already served there as it is. As I recall closure of the more central Brixton Road stops was never on the table as it was feared that Windrush Square was too far away to locate the most central Brixton bus stops and would mess up the transport interchange and deter shoppers. But I agree, it's something that I'd like to see.

 

[teuchter]

Probably. Where infrastructure is good for pedestrians, it tends to be used. But that stretch between McDonalds and the tube is just bedlam and, if you ask me, we have been fortunate for there not to have been more deaths. I don't know how we can improve crossings along that stretch. And if we put up barriers, it becomes a danger for cyclists.

I've been to some countries where people stand at the red man, even if it is 2am in a deserted road. I remember in the 90s, being held back by a stranger at a German crossing when I tried to go over on red. It seems extreme, but that culture might be worthwhile on the Brixton road.

None of us know exactly what happened here and who was responsible to what extent.

However it's pretty depressing to see a response that is essentially blaming pedestrians for being careless, and suggesting the imposition of anti-pedestrian measures like jaywalking laws. Jaywalking laws do not create "good infrastructure for pedestrians".

It's depressing because this is all in the context of an area where we regularly see extreme speeding, and generally dangerous and careless driving. Various threads on here where you can find pictures of cars upturned on 20mph streets or smashed into bus shelters, front gardens or various pedestrian zones. Vehicles (includng HGVs) are constantly stopping on top of the various pedestrian crossings that cross that stretch of Brixton Road. I'm sure most people reading this will have had to pick their way around stopped traffic when crossing on a green man - that's if the green man is even visible because often it'll be the other side of a large vehicle.

Yes of course pedestrians have to be careful; it's in a pedestrian's interest to be careful especially amidst a seemingly accepted culture of dangerous driving, but if we are going to start talking about imposing regulation how about talking about enforcing all the existing rules that motor vehicle drivers freely ignore every day?

Enforcing speed limits to start with. But then all the other bits of the highway code, like not stopping on pedestrian crossings. And the general stuff about driving with anticipation of behaviour from pedestrians especially in urban areas and especially near junctions and in town centres where there are shops and bus stops and so on. If a driver is going too fast to stop, on that stretch of road, when a pedestrian "unexpectedly" appears, then they are simply going too fast and not being careful enough. If a driver can't clearly see the zones where pedestrians might step out from - and can't clearly see that there is no pedestrian likely to step out from them, then they should be going slowly enough that they can stop within the clear distance visible ahead of them.

 

[teuchter]

The specific bit of the HC:

 

[cuppa tee]

very bleak that someone thought it appropriate to share a gruesome pic of the victim in the road on twitter.

 

[Rushy]

very bleak that someone thought it appropriate to share a gruesome pic of the victim in the road on twitter.

Yep - saw that - grim.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Vehicles (includng HGVs) are constantly stopping on top of the various pedestrian crossings that cross that stretch of Brixton Road. I'm sure most people reading this will have had to pick their way around stopped traffic when crossing on a green man - that's if the green man is even visible because often it'll be the other side of a large vehicle.

Yes of course pedestrians have to be careful; it's in a pedestrian's interest to be careful especially amidst a seemingly accepted culture of dangerous driving, but if we are going to start talking about imposing regulation how about talking about enforcing all the existing rules that motor vehicle drivers freely ignore every day?

Enforcing speed limits to start with. But then all the other bits of the highway code, like not stopping on pedestrian crossings.

Exactly - the number of buses and hgvs that edge over pedestrian crossings when they know the lights are changing is especially annoying. Stepping around such vehicles can be difficult, or for those with buggies or wheelchairs etc just impossible. And polluting, it often puts pedestrians too close to their exhausts.

Extra training by the bus companies might help to stop buses doing it. Perhaps the crossings need to be more clearly marked on the tarmac, to remind or deter drivers from doing this.

 

[Winot]

Exactly - the number of buses and hgvs that edge over pedestrian crossings when they know the lights are changing is especially annoying. Stepping around such vehicles can be difficult, or for those with buggies or wheelchairs etc just impossible. And polluting, it often puts pedestrians too close to their exhausts.

Extra training by the bus companies might help to stop buses doing it. Perhaps the crossings need to be more clearly marked on the tarmac, to remind or deter drivers from doing this.

I’ve never understood why crossings can’t have yellow box markings and enforcement cameras. Actually, I do know why; it’s the depressing car-centred culture in this country.

 

[friendofdorothy]

What's really wrong with this junction is the colossal expanse of tarmac in the middle, and the multi-lane approaches from many directions. It encourages speeding. If I remember right, when the square was being planned, there was talk of closing off Effra Road by the church. Scuppered by NIMBY residents of Saltoun and Kellet roads. A real shame, as this would have let the bus stops be moved up to the square and relieve the pavements of all that crowding.

Not a nimby - I was against the closing of Windrush square on grounds of women's safety. Windrush sq is on my route home, I recall filling in a questionnaire saying that.

Waiting for a bus or walking across sections of pedestrian only spaces late at night can feel really dangerous, with a feeling that one could be easily dragged into the churchyard with no drivers to witness <shudders>. Even now, late at night it often feels safer to be near the rowdy crowds at the tube, especially as windrush square is so poorly lit.

Bus stops need to be next to the tube (at least within sight of it), shops and market. You can't expect elderly, disabled or those lugging heavy shopping to drag themselves all the way up to Windrush sq. Brixton would die as a shopping area.

 

[friendofdorothy]

I’ve never understood why crossings can’t have yellow box markings and enforcement cameras. Actually, I do know why; it’s the depressing car-centred culture in this country.

Some of the crossing had those wonderful loud busy patterns painted on them (what is the name of the designers?) But these weren't repainted when they wore off. Think they were immediately outside the tube, across the end of coldharbour lane to the ritzy and on the junction of altantic & coldharbour. Don't recall if they ever went across the main road to Mc Ds

editor have you got some photos of the painted crossings?

Does any one know if data was gathered about road safety in relation to the crossings then?

 

[Rushy]

Some of the crossing had those wonderful loud busy patterns painted on them (what is the name of the designers?)

Eley Kishimoto.

 

[editor]

Some of the crossing had those wonderful loud busy patterns painted on them (what is the name of the designers?) But these weren't repainted when they wore off. Think they were immediately outside the tube, across the end of coldharbour lane to the ritzy and on the junction of altantic & coldharbour. Don't recall if they ever went across the main road to Mc Ds

editor have you got some photos of the painted crossings?

Does any one know if data was gathered about road safety in relation to the crossings then?

That was another of the Brixton Project/Design Trail money burners that no one had asked for.

I can't imagine that they improved on the safety of zebra crossings in any way at all - in fact, I would imagine that putting up unfamiliar, non-standard arty patterns were more likely to confuse some people.

Still, some familiar faces did very nicely out of it, just like the equally pointless painting of chairs in Windrush Square.

Brixton street crossing gets splash of Eley Kishimoto colour

As part of this year’s Brixton Design Trail, four jaunty Eley Kishimoto designed patterns were laid over the pedestrian crossings outside the Dogstar at the junction of Atlantic Road and Cold…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

 

[friendofdorothy]

That was another of the Brixton Project/Design Trail money burners that no one had asked for.

I can't imagine that they improved on the safety of zebra crossings in any way at all - in fact, I would imagine that putting up unfamiliar, nom-standard arty patterns were more likely to confuse some people.

Still, some familiar faces did very nicely out of it, just like the equally pointless painting of chairs in Windrush Square.

Brixton street crossing gets splash of Eley Kishimoto colour

As part of this year’s Brixton Design Trail, four jaunty Eley Kishimoto designed patterns were laid over the pedestrian crossings outside the Dogstar at the junction of Atlantic Road and Cold…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

Certainly eye catching. I didn't know it was part of the art trail, recall observing as a pedestrian it had an effect on the traffic, I thought it was all part of the other traffic calming measures.