Brixton news, rumours and general chat: Autumn 2019

[Gramsci]

He should have committed against Brexit as soon as he was elected leader in 2015. He should have toured Labour heartlands outside London and persuaded anti-EU voters that they'd been misled about the EU and immigration by the press. He had 4 years to change their minds but he did damn-all. And now look where we are. He always seemed ambivalent about the EU. He was too tetchy and rude and charmless to convince anyone that he was pro Remain even though he voted for it. His leadership style and poor interpersonal skills make him an ineffective campaigner for anything, especially a contentious issue such as Brexit. Someone with the right personality for the job could have made a dent in anti-EU feeling. His greatest failing was to be unaware of his weaknesses and to believe he was cut out for the job. He's let the whole country down. He's let Europe down. He's even let the World down. Britain could have helped push Europe and the World towards fairer sharing of resources and a cooperative climate strategy, the way Angela Merkel has done. Instead everything has slipped backwards. Europe has weakened. We all need a socialist approach so badly, but he's spent 4 years farting around and the only difference he's made is to enable right wing dictators. Curse him.

Merkel isn't popular in Greece after what was done to Greece under her watch.

I would hardly call Merkel an advocate for a socialist approach.

 

[Gramsci]

I don't know why you say that about the north of England.
It's not all starving children at food banks.
More families own their own houses and drive a car than here in London.
Partly out of necessity - public transport is worse.
The anti migrant effect is probably partly down to migrants taking up pubic housing and benefits (albeit they are entitled to do so).

I lived in Manchester years ago and was there only 2 weeks ago. Manchester is suffering the same over-development as here, though possibly you wouldn't call it gentrification as Mancunians are more egalitarian and sociable than Londoners - even south Londoners. In the area I was it is in fact a big student housing epidemic. Look at this former Unitarian Chapel in Gothic style, founded by Mrs Gaskell's husband in Upper Brook Street. This building was a ruin ready for demolition 5 years ago - now it has been transformed into student accomodation at £200 per week - targeted at the Chinese market. The Chapel-Manchester Student Accommodation, Manchester Student Flats and Houses to Rent-6apt.com

Amazingly the only Manchester constituency with a major increase in Lib Dem vote was Withington - which as a massive student population. They must have found the Lib Dem message congenial - whereas I would have expected the student fee debacle to still be rankling. Maybe it was and if the coalition had never happened Withington would still be Lib Dem.

Mnachester was Remain.

As in Italy its the small towns and areas outside big conurbations that have lost out over the years.

Will try it find the article on Italy.

 

[Gramsci]

I don't know why you say that about the north of England.
It's not all starving children at food banks.
More families own their own houses and drive a car than here in London.
Partly out of necessity - public transport is worse.
The anti migrant effect is probably partly down to migrants taking up pubic housing and benefits (albeit they are entitled to do so).

I lived in Manchester years ago and was there only 2 weeks ago. Manchester is suffering the same over-development as here, though possibly you wouldn't call it gentrification as Mancunians are more egalitarian and sociable than Londoners - even south Londoners. In the area I was it is in fact a big student housing epidemic. Look at this former Unitarian Chapel in Gothic style, founded by Mrs Gaskell's husband in Upper Brook Street. This building was a ruin ready for demolition 5 years ago - now it has been transformed into student accomodation at £200 per room per week - targeted at the Chinese market. The Chapel-Manchester Student Accommodation, Manchester Student Flats and Houses to Rent-6apt.com

Amazingly the only Manchester constituency with a major increase in Lib Dem vote was Withington - which as a massive student population. They must have found the Lib Dem message congenial - whereas I would have expected the student fee debacle to still be rankling. Maybe it was and if the coalition had never happened Withington would still be Lib Dem.

Found the article:

How the megacities of Europe stole a continent’s wealth

Its about Italy but imo is relevant here.

The area it discusses was Communist stronghold. Now with post industrialisation the same areas outside the boomig big cities are voting for the right.

Been abandoned.

 

[CH1]

Manchester was Remain.
As in Italy its the small towns and areas outside big conurbations that have lost out over the years.
Will try it find the article on Italy.

2 voting stats about Manchester
1. Graham Stringer, the re-elected MP for Blakely - used to be leader of Manchester City council. He is as virulently LEAVE as Kate Hoey.
2. there are 96 Labour Councillors and three Lib Dems.

I'm not sure about Momentum. Manchester has always been Labour.

Are you suggesting that the people of Rotherham (which is adjacent to Sheffield) punished Caroline Flint because they are more "small town" or what?

It's likely that unemployment is higher in Rotherham - it could be suffering from rust-belt Trumpism. Manchester on the other hand is booming with the BBC and ITV having major broadcasting centres there, plus they have a relatively new high quality concert hall and numerous galleries, libraries etc. Plus universities catering for up to 100,000 students - which I daresay employ loads of people.

In the case of Rotherham I think I may agree with you that they voted for Trump because their town is a dump. So what's the answer to that?

 

[editor]

I prefer them, because their customers are quiet. Whereas I'd like the Satay bar and Rum Kitchen gone, because the customers arrive by car, drive around drunk and high and and make as much noise as possible with their car stereos and big engines. It's all LOOK AT ME IN MY FLASH CAR. The outside seating makes for an audience for the car cunts. so they come from all over South London to cruise past and make even more noise, burning petrol and making pollution just for entertainment. Which they think is cool. Fucking brainless muppets should have their cars crushed.

I think you're being really unfair on Satay Bar. Rum Kitchen, on the other hand, does fit some of your description - with added punch-ups and gnarliness.

 

[Mr paulee]

I think you're being really unfair on Satay Bar. Rum Kitchen, on the other hand, does fit some of your description - with added punch-ups and gnarliness.

Rum kitchen has the longest happy happy 'hour' I have ver seen...

 

[Gramsci]

2 voting stats about Manchester
1. Graham Stringer, the re-elected MP for Blakely - used to be leader of Manchester City council. He is as virulently LEAVE as Kate Hoey.
2. there are 96 Labour Councillors and three Lib Dems.

I'm not sure about Momentum. Manchester has always been Labour.

Are you suggesting that the people of Rotherham (which is adjacent to Sheffield) punished Caroline Flint because they are more "small town" or what?

It's likely that unemployment is higher in Rotherham - it could be suffering from rust-belt Trumpism. Manchester on the other hand is booming with the BBC and ITV having major broadcasting centres there, plus they have a relatively new high quality concert hall and numerous galleries, libraries etc. Plus universities catering for up to 100,000 students - which I daresay employ loads of people.

In the case of Rotherham I think I may agree with you that they voted for Trump because their town is a dump. So what's the answer to that?

I think you need to read the article I posted up.

Bringing it back to Brixton forum. The article is , to put it simply, saying that large conurbations can develop on the knowledge economy. As you say universities etc.

The old SME industrial sector has been , under globalization, sent to China.

So now Europe has what are called "surplus population". In the old days these people would be emigrated to America.

See the same Loughborough Junction/ Brixton. Inequality is now normalised. Whilst cutting edge projects (like Pop) for the new middle classes are seen as progressive.

This is the kind of thing that led to area in the "Red Wall" voting for Boris.

Here in Brixton/ Loughborough Junction its different as the largely Black population aren't going to vote for Boris or Farage. Which I agree with.

So imo the new Red Wall is inner London. These voters endorsed a Corbyn radical manifesto. Might be a minority across the country but that is what happened.

 

[Gramsci]

e

 

[Angellic]

I think you need to read the article I posted up.

Bringing it back to Brixton forum. The article is , to put it simply, saying that large conurbations can develop on the knowledge economy. As you say universities etc.

The old SME industrial sector has been , under globalization, sent to China.

So now Europe has what are called "surplus population". In the old days these people would be emigrated to America.

See the same Loughborough Junction/ Brixton. Inequality is now normalised. Whilst cutting edge projects (like Pop) for the new middle classes are seen as progressive.

This is the kind of thing that led to area in the "Red Wall" voting for Boris.

Here in Brixton/ Loughborough Junction its different as the largely Black population aren't going to vote for Boris or Farage. Which I agree with.

So imo the new Red Wall is inner London. These voters endorsed a Corbyn radical manifesto. Might be a minority across the country but that is what happened.

Is it true that Brixton/ Loughborough Junction has a 'largely Black population'?

 

[jimbarkanoodle]

Rum kitchen has the longest happy happy 'hour' I have ver seen...

I have never been in The Rum Kitchen, but having looked at its menu online, a couple of quid off an £8 cocktail would not make me too happy, no matter how long the offer may be on for each day.

 

[editor]

I have never been in The Rum Kitchen, but having looked at its menu online, a couple of quid off an £8 cocktail would not make me too happy, no matter how long the offer may be on for each day.

I could be wrong but it appears to have one of the highest bouncer/punter ratios I've seen around Brixton. I've never enjoyed the vibe in there at night.

 

[Jimbeau]

Is it true that Brixton/ Loughborough Junction has a 'largely Black population'?

Generally no, according the last Census, although possibly in Coldharbour ward depending on how people self-identify. Fascinating Excel tool here: Detailed Ethnicity by Age & Sex Ward Tools (2011 Census) – London Datastore

Striking contrast between Ferndale and Coldharbour, despite them being next to each other. Tulse Hill/Brixton Hill and Stockwell/Vassal are much more similar pairings.

 

[Big Bertha]

Why is big increase in membership a problem? I don't understand what you are getting at. Please make it more clear.

Political parties imo aren't just about getting a Cllr or MP.

Power in this country is in Local Councils and Parliament. Political parties are meant to be mass organisations representing the people.

That is from when the franchise was extended.

I'm not clear what you mean.

Are you saying it is better in this country system of political parties contesting election that the membership is low?

My post is saying that those who have joined Labour party due to Corbyn are those, in my experience, who have track record of community involvement.

Why is that a problem?

Surely its a positive for democracy?

What I meant was that rather than increasing the amount of supporters in Brixton (which is heavily labour anyway) it would make more electoral sense to widen their appeal to other areas/demographics.

 

[Big Bertha]

Another thing Ive just thought of.

Well Corbyn gave people a chance to join / rejoin Labour party to enact changes.

Locals I know joined Labour party under Corbyn leadership as felt that at last a Labour party that might have a go at the rich and powerful.

instead of one banging head against brick wall of Lambeth Council or being given stick here for continually moaning about gentrification at last a chance to have government which will have a go at the rich and powerful interests in this society.

Anyone on this forum think that this was wrong?

I think a lot of people only voted for Corbyn because there might be a chance of a second referendum if he won. His policies in general weren’t important

 

[CH1]

I think you need to read the article I posted up.

If the gist of it is that there is a drift from towns and rural parts to cities, this is hardly new. Nor is it peculiar to Italy and Britain. Same happens in Nigeria and Cairo.

I lost two jobs in the 1980s due to Tory Hezza policy of trying to beef up run-down areas by relocating industry.

My job from 1979-1983 was working for RS Components, which was moved lock stock and barrel to the Corby Enterprise Zone. I see there is now talk of Free Ports - designed to beef up Great Grimsby etc.

My job from 1985-1989 working for an electronics manufacturer was transferred to Glenrothes - an easy commute?

Following the accession of Tony Blair they seemed to stop fiddling about bringing jobs to redundant steel workers and just trust to the efficiency of the free market.

The point I was trying to make is that these disgruntled ex-Labour supporters who have now defected to Boris are highly unlikely to be life-long socialists now reduced to food bank customers. Much more likely they own their own home and go to Benidorm twice a year.

In fact they are precisely the sort who Caroline Flint condemned Emily Thornberry for saying were dim or whatever she is supposed to have said.

Personally I'm with Emily Thornberry. Working class Toryism has little attraction for me. It seems to me that one thing working class Tories generally exhibit is they begrudge people things they themselves don't even want. If Labour chase that attitude they really will be intellectually dead.

I like Will Self's reflection on the election and the environment A Point of View - Expectations of Democracy - BBC Sounds

 

[Gramsci]

What I meant was that rather than increasing the amount of supporters in Brixton (which is heavily labour anyway) it would make more electoral sense to widen their appeal to other areas/demographics.

I didn't think increase in membership was solely down to new members in Lambeth.

The issue of Brixton / Lambeth is an interesting one. My ex Cllr Rachel once told me the membership had got so low in later Blair years it was difficult to fill officer posts of local party organisation.

People left over Iraq. That was the final straw.

I have a feeling what you are saying is that "demographic" in Brixton isn't representative of the whole country. "Widening the appeal" does sound like the "centre" ground type of politics to me. The mythical middle of the ground reasonable sort of person who would vote Labour put is put off by certain "demographics" having undue say in it.

Which is of course the Blair line.

 

[Gramsci]

I think a lot of people only voted for Corbyn because there might be a chance of a second referendum if he won. His policies in general weren’t important

You didn't answer my question. If Corbyn is replaced would you support a Labour party with the same economic manifesto?

I don't agree that people voted just because Labour said second referendum.

The LDs and Green party put case that they were the parties of Remain.

Labour position got a lot of stick from Remainers for not being Remain enough.

This isn't a criticism of Remainers. Its a fact.

In the Red Wall the party was criticised for not being Brexit enough. So lost seats.

Labour party did try to concentrate on issues like NHS . This helped to keep Labour vote. Plus Swinson was in Tory / LD government enacting austerity. Didn't endear her to many Labour voters.

So no I don't think Labour vote was just about them supporting second referendum.

 

[Big Bertha]

You didn't answer my question. If Corbyn is replaced would you support a Labour party with the same economic manifesto?

I don't agree that people voted just because Labour said second referendum.

The LDs and Green party put case that they were the parties of Remain.

Labour position got a lot of stick from Remainers for not being Remain enough.

This isn't a criticism of Remainers. Its a fact.

In the Red Wall the party was criticised for not being Brexit enough. So lost seats.

Labour party did try to concentrate on issues like NHS . This helped to keep Labour vote. Plus Swinson was in Tory / LD government enacting austerity. Didn't endear her to many Labour voters.

So no I don't think Labour vote was just about them supporting second referendum.

Their economic manifesto was a wish list.
Not believable.
Certainly not economic!

without Corbyn (or his acolytes) I think they would be more likely to come up with a manifesto that would be trustworthy

 

[Angellic]

Generally no, according the last Census, although possibly in Coldharbour ward depending on how people self-identify. Fascinating Excel tool here: Detailed Ethnicity by Age & Sex Ward Tools (2011 Census) – London Datastore

Striking contrast between Ferndale and Coldharbour, despite them being next to each other. Tulse Hill/Brixton Hill and Stockwell/Vassal are much more similar pairings.

Thanks for the link.

 

[editor]

Their economic manifesto was a wish list.
Not believable.
Certainly not economic!

without Corbyn (or his acolytes) I think they would be more likely to come up with a manifesto that would be trustworthy

And your expertise in this area is what? Reading right wing trash newspapers and regurgitating their propaganda here?

 

[editor]

I think a lot of people only voted for Corbyn because there might be a chance of a second referendum if he won. His policies in general weren’t important

Well there's a totally credible blanket statement made on behalf of millions of voters

 

[Big Bertha]

Well there's a totally credible blanket statement made on behalf of millions of voters

Just to clarify...

I was responding to a question asking what I thought.

Certainly was not intending to make a statement on behalf of millions of people!!

 

[Big Bertha]

And your expertise in this area is what? Reading right wing trash newspapers and regurgitating their propaganda here?

Again I literally only answered a question! Didn’t mean to upset you

 

[editor]

Saturday: Christmas Market at Grove Adventure Playground in Brixton, Sat 21st Dec, 11am-3pm

 

[editor]

Just to clarify...

I was responding to a question asking what I thought.

Certainly was not intending to make a statement on behalf of millions of people!!

So have you got anything to back up your assertion that Corbyn's policies "weren't important" to the millions of people who voted for him?

 

[editor]

Brixton news: Brixton’s Pulross Road residents complain about unholy racket from Victoria Line ventilation shaft

 

[editor]

This Friday! Brixton’s Biggest Xmas Pop Party, Friday 20th Dec at the Effra Social – free entry!

 

[klang]

e

bit early for me tbh but thanks for the offer. might get back to you on that Friday eve.

 

[Mr paulee]

I could be wrong but it appears to have one of the highest bouncer/punter ratios I've seen around Brixton. I've never enjoyed the vibe in there at night.

No there is always something slightly menacing with regards to the vibe.
Agree on the bouncer/clientele ratio.

 

[editor]

Bit of local interest
BXHS Xmas Bauble no.1: Jim Bob : Brixton Hill Studios