Brewdog is for sale apparently
Brixton news, rumours and general chat: Autumn 2019
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The point is that they aren’t voting for the candidate.
Mr Retro
Beware hedgehogs
I voted for Stella Creasy because she’s a really good local MP but you’re right. A drunken chimp could stand in Walthamstow and skate in.
Shame...not stepped in the door myself. But certainly doesn't seem a bad place if you take it a face value. Seems in control of its customers Certainly lot better than can be said for other establishments on coldharbour.
editor
hiraethified
At 'face value' it's a really expensive, bland bar owned by sexist, capitalist cunts cashing in on the ethos of punk. I'm not sure what bars 'aren't in control of their customers' but I'd prefer any of them to Brewdog. I couldn't give a fuck if they fuck off out of Brixton, along with their 'community owned' bullshit.
I’m have expected More support for a living wage employer.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
What is their distinctive offer? The place looks like a bit bland to me. If I was a Brewdog punk drinker, so to speak, I would go to Wetherspoons. Mind you if you want the snazzy seats as per Brewdog Coldharbour Lane you'd have to go to the Peckham Wetherspoons.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Which is what I meant.
Unlike the "Red Wall" the vote for a Corbyn led Labour party held up in London. People didn't change to voting for Boris. The LDs despite being full on Remain didn't do well in London.
Now Corbyn/ McDonnell are going I really hope my local MPs understand that the Labour party economic programme was popular and should be kept. I didn't want a return to the centre ground.
The London vote was an anti brexit vote more than anything I think
editor
hiraethified
What? So people are supposed to back any employer, regardless of their ethics, just because they pay the Living Wage? What a ridiculous assertion.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I'm not clear. Your agreeing but saying you voted for Creasy. So you would have voted Labour anyway?
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
I prefer them, because their customers are quiet. Whereas I'd like the Satay bar and Rum Kitchen gone, because the customers arrive by car, drive around drunk and high and and make as much noise as possible with their car stereos and big engines. It's all LOOK AT ME IN MY FLASH CAR. The outside seating makes for an audience for the car cunts. so they come from all over South London to cruise past and make even more noise, burning petrol and making pollution just for entertainment. Which they think is cool. Fucking brainless muppets should have their cars crushed.
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
Didn't campaign against Brexit before the referendum, never explained the harm Brexit would do to working class voters, didn't unite his party, fragmented the Labour vote and gifted Brexit and a huge majority to the most greedy amoral right wing leader this country's had since...er...probably the dark ages. All of that is Corbyn's fault. See Polly Toynbee for more.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
A better solution would be to ban cars from coldharbour lane.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Am I imagining that there is a plan to ban cars from Atlantic road and send them all down Coldharbour?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I've read Polly. She still thinks Corbyn should have got the party to go Remain. That doesn't make sense to me. Outside London , as this election showed, whole sections of the working class wanted Brexit.
If he had got the party to go all out Remain he would have kept Helen Hayes happy and other Remainers but alienated other sections of the party outside London.
In 2017 he went to the country saying accepted the result. This time the policy was understandable but not easy to get across in such a divided country.
Fact of the matter is even if there had been a second referendum it would have been close.
The other thing is that people like Polly have their own agenda. They never liked the move to the left. There will know be big push by the likes of Polly and her ilk to go back to the days of New Labour centrism.
Which is why I , a Remainer, never was big supporter of things like Peoples Vote campaigns.
I was against leaving as I think the whole thing was pushed by the anti immigration right. I would accept leaving if this country had kept free movement.
Of course the counter argument to what you are saying is that if Corbyn had kept to the 2017 position - honouring the result for Brexit- no second referendum- the Labour party would not have lost the Red Wall.
The LDs tried to go all out Remain and did poorly.
Not trying to have a go at you. I understand where you are coming from. I also do think some on left don't see that the working class in different areas have different positions on EU/ Brexit. In London nearly all the people I know doing working class jobs are Remain. And a lot criticise Corbyn for not being Remain enough.
This is a divided country and I don't think the prospects are good.
London is very different from other parts of the country. Saying this as someone from South West.
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David Clapson
Well-Known Member
He should have committed against Brexit as soon as he was elected leader in 2015. He should have toured Labour heartlands outside London and persuaded anti-EU voters that they'd been misled about the EU and immigration by the press. He had 4 years to change their minds but he did damn-all. And now look where we are. He always seemed ambivalent about the EU. He was too tetchy and rude and charmless to convince anyone that he was pro Remain even though he voted for it. His leadership style and poor interpersonal skills make him an ineffective campaigner for anything, especially a contentious issue such as Brexit. Someone with the right personality for the job could have made a dent in anti-EU feeling. His greatest failing was to be unaware of his weaknesses and to believe he was cut out for the job. He's let the whole country down. He's let Europe down. He's even let the World down. Britain could have helped push Europe and the World towards fairer sharing of resources and a cooperative climate strategy, the way Angela Merkel has done. Instead everything has slipped backwards. Europe has weakened. We all need a socialist approach so badly, but he's spent 4 years farting around and the only difference he's made is to enable right wing dictators. Curse him.
He should have resigned after he lost to Theresa May imho.
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
If Corbyn had any insight into his talents and failings he shouldn't have stood for election as Labour leader. History will write him off as just another man with an ego problem who has aggravated the damage done by the patriarchy. There must be 1000 women who could have done a better job than him. Off we go towards hyper-capitalism and the climate apocalypse. If we could clone Merkel and install her as leader of every country, we'd have half a chance of averting disaster.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
He didn't expect to win leadership. He stood to give left a voice in leadership election.
His unexpected win led to massive increase of membership of Labour party.
So imho not a big macho ego.
Any new leader promoting the same economic programme will get a hard time in opposing hyper capitalism.
editor
hiraethified
Even more so in the face of a well funded, hyper aggressive campaign of blatant lies and scaremongering across social media and the national press. He never stood a fucking chance. No one would.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Don't agree. I think Polly Toynbee is right in the sense that Labour could have decided to campaign for remain.
The Xenophobic leave nonsense didn't stop one of the most vocal leavers - Caroline Flint - succumbing to the venom of Brexit.
The whole episode is an object lesson in manipulation. The only ones to benefit have been the Scots Nats and the Tories. Labour and Lib Dems have been destroyed by Brexit, at least for some years.
Labour's schizophrenia prevented any possibility of a joint anti Tory electoral position with other parties - which was fine in Momentum seats in London, but screwed them up elsewhere - except strongholds like Manchester and Liverpool.
I think the lesson is that people want some sparkle from their politicians. Boris played it like some sort of game show like Robot Wars. Meanwhile many Labour front-liners were as exciting as Sunday School teachers.
I feel sorry for the disgruntled ex-MP for Ipswich, who was brave enough to tell the tellers at the count that campaigning today is nothing but lies.
GE 2019: Sandy Martin condemns Tory campaign as 'lies'
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
Look at the twat's logic in the Observer: "We are living in highly volatile times. Two-and-a-half years ago, in the first general election I contested as Labour leader, our party increased its share of the popular vote by 10 percentage points. On Thursday, on a desperately disappointing night, we fell back eight points." A net gain of 2 points despite everything being against me. So really, I won.
We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change | Jeremy Corbyn
We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change | Jeremy Corbyn
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
The police have tweeted: "A Section 60 has been implemented until 00:00hrs on Monday, 16 December across the SW2, SW9 and SW24 areas. This follows gang tensions in the area." That means stop and search without reasonable suspicion.
Perhaps they mean SE24.
Perhaps they mean SE24.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
It was Swinson who refused to work with Corbyn. She said that she would not work with a Labour party led by Corbyn. Despite giving the impression that LDs would do anything to stop Brexit.
Caroline Flint , like Kinnock in Wales , were Remain but when their constituents voted leave they listened to their voters and supported Leave.
Hoey has been criticised on this forum for being Leave when most of her constituents were Remain. So I don't understand how how ex Labour MPs like Flint can be criticised for representing and listening to their voters
I also would like to know what exactly campaigning for Remain meant. To me from an objective point of view a lot of the criticism of EU and how it operates are valid. I always had the feeling from hard-line Remainers that the EU was just fine.
I also felt a lot of Remain talk was exactly what pissed of working class people in de industrialised areas of the "Red Wall". That the Remain message was can't we just return to nice centre ground politics. Its precisely what Swinson offered.
What I would like to now from posters here in a Remain area is this ( and that includes posters who have liked posts having a go at Corbyn:
Was it just Labour party position on Brexit that was wrong or was it the radical economic programme?
Secondly do posters here want a new leadership that continues the radical economic programme?
Just like to know where people stand.
IMHO the radical economic programme propose In the Labour maniefesto only seemed such as this country has gone down the path of neo liberalism so much.
If enacted it would put this country back up with France and Germany in state "intervention" in economy.
Momentum don't control London Labour party. Out of the three seats Helen Hayes was not Corbyn supporter. She survived a re selection vote. Vauxhall was Florence - a supporter of the Progress wing of the party. Only in Streatham was their chosen a Corybnite.
Going back to Brixton issues there was a big increase in membership due to Corbyn.
I know some of these people. They are people like me who have been involved in community issues for years. Who have had nothing but grudging acceptance of hostiltiy from our New Labour Cllrs .
They joined or re joined the Labour party as they hoped the Corbyn election would lead to the Lambeth Labour party becoming a party that would campaign on services to ordinary working people rather than be the friend of developers and gentrification.
These people are "student politics" who are a "sect" in Labour party who all should be expelled as Alan Johnson said.
They are ordinary people who want a party that campaigns and works with communities.
Up North a lot of the dislike of the Labour party is that people feel that over the years its abandoned them. The same is here imo.
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i think this is the problem, Brixton didn’t need a big increase in membership, would have been labour anyway.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Why is big increase in membership a problem? I don't understand what you are getting at. Please make it more clear.
Political parties imo aren't just about getting a Cllr or MP.
Power in this country is in Local Councils and Parliament. Political parties are meant to be mass organisations representing the people.
That is from when the franchise was extended.
I'm not clear what you mean.
Are you saying it is better in this country system of political parties contesting election that the membership is low?
My post is saying that those who have joined Labour party due to Corbyn are those, in my experience, who have track record of community involvement.
Why is that a problem?
Surely its a positive for democracy?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Another thing Ive just thought of.
Debates here about gentrification. For example property developers wriggling out of affordable housing . Been told its not the Council ( or in some quarters has been implied not the poor old developers ) fault.
One should take this to parliament.
Well Corbyn gave people a chance to join / rejoin Labour party to enact changes.
Locals I know joined Labour party under Corbyn leadership as felt that at last a Labour party that might have a go at the rich and powerful.
instead of one banging head against brick wall of Lambeth Council or being given stick here for continually moaning about gentrification at last a chance to have government which will have a go at the rich and powerful interests in this society.
Anyone on this forum think that this was wrong?
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
I don't know why you say that about the north of England.
It's not all starving children at food banks.
More families own their own houses and drive a car than here in London.
Partly out of necessity - public transport is worse.
The anti migrant effect is probably partly down to migrants taking up pubic housing and benefits (albeit they are entitled to do so).
I lived in Manchester years ago and was there only 2 weeks ago. Manchester is suffering the same over-development as here, though possibly you wouldn't call it gentrification as Mancunians are more egalitarian and sociable than Londoners - even south Londoners. In the area I was it is in fact a big student housing epidemic. Look at this former Unitarian Chapel in Gothic style, founded by Mrs Gaskell's husband in Upper Brook Street. This building was a ruin ready for demolition 5 years ago - now it has been transformed into student accomodation at £200 per room per week - targeted at the Chinese market. The Chapel-Manchester Student Accommodation, Manchester Student Flats and Houses to Rent-6apt.com
Amazingly the only Manchester constituency with a major increase in Lib Dem vote was Withington - which as a massive student population. They must have found the Lib Dem message congenial - whereas I would have expected the student fee debacle to still be rankling. Maybe it was and if the coalition had never happened Withington would still be Lib Dem.
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