Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[DJWrongspeed]

I've just had some info through the door from Lambeth Council regarding the new "Tulse Hill LTN." it's kind of Brixton Hill from Brixton Water Lane right up to the A205 South Circular. It's a big area with crucial no through points on Elm Park, Leander and Upper Tulse hill to name a few.

Looks great

 

[Brian Taylor]

No problem, I was starting to think one or both of us had picked up the wrong end of the stick.

Probably me.

 

[Crispy]

I've just some had info through the door from Lambeth Council regarding the new "Tulse Hill LTN." it's kind of Brixton Hill from Brixton Water Lane right up to the A205 South Circular. It's a big area with crucial no through points on Elm Park, Leander and Upper Tulse hill to name a few.

Looks great

Yep. Completely eliminates all rat runs. Can't wait (even if it will add 5m on to the drive out of town to visit my folks)

EDIT: It's a shame they haven't got rid of the TH gyratory yet.

 

[Brian Taylor]

I've just had some info through the door from Lambeth Council regarding the new "Tulse Hill LTN." it's kind of Brixton Hill from Brixton Water Lane right up to the A205 South Circular. It's a big area with crucial no through points on Elm Park, Leander and Upper Tulse hill to name a few.

Looks great

Looks a bit like the heel of a boot stamping down on an unsuspecting older person.

 

[teuchter]

As someone who's lived on Shakespeare Road for the last 15 years I might have a slightly clearer view of how bad the traffic was than most. But no one bothered to ask.

A question for you: are your concerns about the LTN primarily because you are worried about the traffic displaced to other roads, or is the fact that you can't now drive the entire length of Shakespeare Road part of the reason you are unhappy?

 

[Gramsci]

I know someone who works for Lambeth Council. I spoke to them and asked them what they thought. They said they didn't think the CHL traffic was down to the LTN.

[obviously I have not done this yet but I know a few people with council connections. Nothing to do with transport monitoring but anecdote is fine isn't it?]

That does not surprise me. In my experience of dealing with Council officers they would not want to say anything critical of Council policy that might get back to Cllrs. Understandable as the Council is the employer.

 

[sleaterkinney]

No one asked me about wearing a mask or the pubs shutting at 10 either.

 

[Gramsci]

As someone who's lived on Shakespeare Road for the last 15 years I might have a slightly clearer view of how bad the traffic was than most. But no one bothered to ask.

Yes as someone who is critically supportive of LTN as idea I don't like the way they have been implemented.

Councils across London are using pandemic to put in place LTNs. Knowing they can bypass consultation.

I know some in Lambeth who oppose LTNs hope they can put pressure on Lambeth to halt them like in Wandsworth. That is not going to happen in Lambeth.

I do think it might be idea to start questioning the Council when they are going to do the statutory consultation. Councils have obligation to consult people.

Ideas for consultation/ Questions for the Council:

How long are the Council going to use the pandemic as excuse for implementing LTNs in Lambeth? They are supposed to be emergency alteration to roads responding to Covid not a permanent change to road use.

When is the statutory consultation going to start?

What form will it take?

Can LTNs be amended? ie allowing residents in a LTN to freely move using ANPR or keeping some aspects of the LTNs and taking out unpopular ones ( Shakespeare road for example) A comprimise solution.

Im not at all happy at the way the Council have taken a crisis to push their long term plans. Never let a crisis go to waste is how they are using it.

It could be in some neighbourhoods people want an LTN. That is fine, Im not opposed to them. I just think people should be asked. Their knowledge of local area should be asked about by Council.

After all this is supposed to be a Coop Council. Doing things with people not to them.

 

[Brian Taylor]

A question for you: are your concerns about the LTN primarily because you are worried about the traffic displaced to other roads, or is the fact that you can't now drive the entire length of Shakespeare Road part of the reason you are unhappy?

Not being able to easily access the rest of the road is a minor inconvenience at worst for us as we're both in good health and prefer to walk anyways. Certainly not something worth getting worked up over.
The main concern is the impact on the area and people outside the LTN.
I've been a Labour voter all my life (sometimes reluctantly) and how the party can just trample over it's own voters in the Coldharbour ward to try to snatch a few votes from the Greens in the Herne Hill ward appalls me.
Maybe that's just tinfoil hattery and it's just a lucky coincidence for them that the bulk of the LTN is in a Green/Labour marginal while the rest is solid Labour.

 

[Crispy]

I've been a Labour voter all my life (sometimes reluctantly) and how the party can just trample over it's own voters in the Coldharbour ward to try to snatch a few votes from the Greens in the Herne Hill ward appalls me.
Maybe that's just tinfoil hattery and it's just a lucky coincidence for them that the bulk of the LTN is in a Green/Labour marginal while the rest is solid Labour.

They're not being picky about the areas. The LTNs are being rolled out borough-wide. I don't think it's a vote-winning exercise.

 

[Gramsci]

They're not being picky about the areas. The LTNs are being rolled out borough-wide. I don't think it's a vote-winning exercise.

No sign of our Progress led Council Council trying to inflict a LTN on Loughborough Junction. Even they don't think doing that to the Loughborough Estate is great idea. Coldahrbour Ward is rock solid Labour area but they aren't pushing their luck this time.

Shows if residents kick up enough of a fuss the Council will leave you alone in the future. Campaigning can work.

 

[teuchter]

No sign of our Progress led Council Council trying to inflict a LTN on Loughborough Junction. Even they don't think doing that to the Loughborough Estate is great idea. Coldahrbour Ward is rock solid Labour area but they areny pushing their luck this time.

Shows if residents kick up enough of a fuss the Council will leave you alone in the future. Campaigning can work.

A bit strange to be "critically supportive" of something you see as being "inflicted" on people.

 

[teuchter]

Not being able to easily access the rest of the road is a minor inconvenience at worst for us as we're both in good health and prefer to walk anyways. Certainly not something worth getting worked up over.
The main concern is the impact on the area and people outside the LTN.
I've been a Labour voter all my life (sometimes reluctantly) and how the party can just trample over it's own voters in the Coldharbour ward to try to snatch a few votes from the Greens in the Herne Hill ward appalls me.
Maybe that's just tinfoil hattery and it's just a lucky coincidence for them that the bulk of the LTN is in a Green/Labour marginal while the rest is solid Labour.

Ok, so if it could be demonstrated that it didn't significantly increase pollution or congestion outside the zone, would you support it? Or just be neutral about it?

 

[Gramsci]

A bit strange to be "critically supportive" of something you see as being "inflicted" on people.

No its not.

If a local community consulted by the Council wants an LTN or road closures then that is fine.

It is not that "strange" position to have.

 

[Not a Vet]

Yes as someone who is critically supportive of LTN as idea I don't like the way they have been implemented.

Councils across London are using pandemic to put in place LTNs. Knowing they can bypass consultation.

I know some in Lambeth who oppose LTNs hope they can put pressure on Lambeth to halt them like in Wandsworth. That is not going to happen in Lambeth.

I do think it might be idea to start questioning the Council when they are going to do the statutory consultation. Councils have obligation to consult people.

Ideas for consultation/ Questions for the Council:

How long are the Council going to use the pandemic as excuse for implementing LTNs in Lambeth? They are supposed to be emergency alteration to roads responding to Covid not a permanent change to road use.

When is the statutory consultation going to start?

What form will it take?

Can LTNs be amended? ie allowing residents in a LTN to freely move using ANPR or keeping some aspects of the LTNs and taking out unpopular ones ( Shakespeare road for example) A comprimise solution.

Im not at all happy at the way the Council have taken a crisis to push their long term plans. Never let a crisis go to waste is how they are using it.

It could be in some neighbourhoods people want an LTN. That is fine, Im not opposed to them. I just think people should be asked. Their knowledge of local area should be asked about by Council.

After all this is supposed to be a Coop Council. Doing things with people not to them.

Don’t often agree with you but I do think that talk of petitions, small demonstrations are not the way forward. If people have objections, they should be working towards having constructive ideas for the actual legal consultation. Shakespeare modal is a good example of where compromise could be found. I’ve been mulling over ideas such as making the gate/camera only active during peak times, allowing cars through but not skip lorries or other vehicles, a free pass for Shakespeare road residents etc. I mean it doesn’t address the fundamental position of cutting non-essential journeys but it might make for a less divided community

 

[Gramsci]

Don’t often agree with you but I do think that talk of petitions, small demonstrations are not the way forward. If people have objections, they should be working towards having constructive ideas for the actual legal consultation. Shakespeare modal is a good example of where compromise could be found. I’ve been mulling over ideas such as making the gate/camera only active during peak times, allowing cars through but not skip lorries or other vehicles, a free pass for Shakespeare road residents etc. I mean it doesn’t address the fundamental position of cutting non-essential journeys but it might make for a less divided community

Well Im all for demos.

But yes Im trying to argue that there is comprimise that can be made. Also (from my experience in LJ) that not all people who don't like LTNs are car nuts/ racist.

Giving people who live in Council designated LTN freedom of movement in and out would stop a lot of the opposition.

After all the Council arguement is that the majority of through traffic in an LTN is not people who live or visit a neighbourhood. It is through traffic using an area to get to somewhere else. That is the argument for Railton LTN.

 

[toblerone3]

But that is what has not happened. Council suspended the consultation and went ahead with this using emergency powers.

So it is quite reasonable to expect the Council to look into whether traffic is being displaced onto CHL.

Its not been introduced under emergency powers as far as I'm aware. That is something different. Its been introduced under an Experimental Traffic Order which is effectively a live trial consultation.

 

[Gramsci]

Its not been introduced under emergency powers as far as I'm aware. That is something different. Its been introduced under an Experimental Traffic Order which is effectively a live trial consultation.

From the Railton LTN commonplace:

I am writing to provide an update on our plans to introduce an emergency low traffic neighbourhood in the Railton area.

In line with statutory guidance provided by national government, the council will be stopping through traffic from cutting through the neighbourhood by making temporary changes to the road layout.

Railton LTN

Read the latest project update on Railton Neighbourhood.

rtstreets.commonplace.is

 

[toblerone3]

I cant be sure but I think even though it described as an emergency low traffic neighbourhood legally it is being introduced under an Experimental Traffic Order which is part of a consultation process. Most LTNs in London are being introduced in this way.

The text from the Hackney Commonplace is a bit clearer.

London Fields Low Traffic Neighbourhood

Give your views on our road closures/traffic filters in London Fields. The feedback period for this scheme closed on 1 August 2021.

rebuildingagreenerhackney.commonplace.is

Have your say
The filters are being introduced using an experimental traffic order for a maximum period of 18 months, which means you can see how the filters work in practice before having your say.

The views of residents and businesses, including any suggested changes to how schemes operate, will be taken into account before any decision on whether or not to make the measures permanent. This process is in line with specific guidance from Transport for London, and the Department for Transport, whose guidance states that: 'authorities should monitor and evaluate any temporary measures they install, with a view to making them permanent, and embedding a long-term shift to active travel as we move from restart to recovery’.

The experimental traffic order will be advertised in the London Gazette and the Hackney Gazette on 27 August 2020.

You can have your say for up to six months after the measures have been implemented, until 21 March 2021. To have your say, please complete the survey below or email streetscene.consultations@hackney.gov.uk. You can also write to us by sending your comments to ‘Freepost Streetscene’.

 

[teuchter]

No its not.

If a local community consulted by the Council wants an LTN or road closures then that is fine.

It is not that "strange" position to have.

Ok, but you seem to be making a starting presumption that an LTN will have a negative impact on the community that lives within it.

"Inflicted" is quite a strong word to choose.

 

[Torpid Scorpion]

No sign of our Progress led Council Council trying to inflict a LTN on Loughborough Junction.

The north end of loughborough road really needs help as its taking a lot of traffic between the brixton road and herne hill/denmark hill into a narrow sigle track between parked cars.

unfortunately diverting these via the camberwell A roads would require lambeth/southwark cooperation, and as you say they're already burned once.

angell town is basically an LTN already so its myatts south and loughborough that suffer.

Good luck getting an emergency vehicle through the car jam between the aptly named brixton jamm and fiveways on an given day.

sigh.

 

[newbie]

I've just had some info through the door from Lambeth Council regarding the new "Tulse Hill LTN." it's kind of Brixton Hill from Brixton Water Lane right up to the A205 South Circular. It's a big area with crucial no through points on Elm Park, Leander and Upper Tulse hill to name a few.

Looks great

Already quiet backstreets will become quieter. Already busy perimeter main roads will become busier.

We'll have to wait and see but I'm utterly unconvinced that's in the interests of anyone except property owners within the area.

(oh, and that map is so pathetic, yet Lambeth think it's acceptable as pretty much the sole public information about this scheme)

 

[Torpid Scorpion]

The One Lambeth group is turning a bit nasty with the usual tropes being rolled out.

Cyclists are ‘scum of the road’ who don’t pay road tax.

A local ltn campaigner has had her home address shared and she’s being fat shamed: ‘Should go to the gym more than being on a bike’ etc.

And as she’s not from the UK apparently has no right to be doing what she’s doing.

Any traffic (caused by accidents or roadworks) is the fault of ltns and Khan has ruined London

can you share screen shots or links of this with us? I assume you mean the closed facebook group.

 

[editor]

can you share screen shots or links of this with us? I assume you mean the closed facebook group.

I'd like to see these too, if possible.

 

[editor]

Buzz update Yet another petition calls for the end of Lambeth’s Low Traffic Neighbourhood (LTN) schemes

 

[Rushy]

I collared a driver about to piss on a drive in Herne Hill yesterday evening. He abandoned his car in the middle of the road and staggered obliviously past me sat on the drive in my van. When I remonstrated with him he blamed his behaviour squarely on the LTN, saying that he had been flumoxed by the gate and would not be trying to piss there if he could work out how to get out of it. Although I rather suspect that he may already have been out of it.

 

[snowy_again]

can you share screen shots or links of this with us? I assume you mean the closed facebook group.

Yes. Will do if my membership of that group still works after posting on here.

 

[thebackrow]

Buzz update Yet another petition calls for the end of Lambeth’s Low Traffic Neighbourhood (LTN) schemes

"very biased reporting from this rag lately" (reply to your tweet from one of the anti-LTN accounts)

not sure how you could have reported it any more neutrally

 

[editor]

"very biased reporting from this rag lately" (reply to your tweet from one of the anti-LTN accounts)

not sure how you could have reported it any more neutrally

Indeed . I'm not sure why I bothered replying to such an idiot now!

I'm waiting on a piece by the Railton Road LTN supporters for tomorrow. I'm just so biased!

 

[Torpid Scorpion]

Yes. Will do if my membership of that group still works after posting on here.

thanks!!