Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[sleaterkinney]

I'm talking about the present Tory government. Its led by Boris who built cycle lanes in London.

So your argument that a Tory would not do this does not hold.

It was City of London who pre Covid started to reduce traffic around the Bank junction.

What pandemic has done is accelerate some of these schemes.

For example I was hanging out in the City pre Covid and there was a City of London consultation going on about making the City more pedestrian friendly. As at that time a lot of people worked in the City. The idea being to make more parklets/ car free side roads for the City workers. Make it more pleasant space for those who worked there.

So things have moved on since Thatcher.

You selectively post a quote from old school Tory. This has you keep being told is not government policy.

I am saying were it not for the pandemic things like this and the furlough scheme would not be government policy.

 

[Brassed off]

As has been pointed out on earlier posts there appears to be more traffic on CHL.

I live on CHL and certain times of day its busy.

I do hope the Council are doing traffic studies to either show traffic is evaporating or main road like CHL has increased traffic displaced from LTNs.

All I'm asking at moment is for Council to do proper job of monitoring the LTNs over the temporary period.

There is currently sooo little traffic in London at the moment! The west end is dead due to the virus! What exactly will they be measuring? There is no way it will be anything like precious levels! Seriously is that going to be passed off as evidence af traffic evaporation? They are also measuring the traffic on RailtonL Rd now, just like Waltham Forest you know the data where they say “Oh, look!traffic down by 80%, just coz we cut off roads in nearly all directions!” I mean why bother with that one it’s just embarrassing!

 

[Brassed off]

There is currently sooo little traffic in London at the moment! The west end is dead due to the virus! What exactly will they be measuring? There is no way it will be anything like precious levels! Seriously is that going to be passed off as evidence af traffic evaporation? They are also measuring the traffic on RailtonL Rd now, just like Waltham Forest you know the data where they say “Oh, look!traffic down by 80%, just coz we cut off roads in nearly all directions!” I mean why bother with that one it’s just embarrassing!

* previous levels not precious

 

[Winot]

There is currently sooo little traffic in London at the moment! The west end is dead due to the virus! What exactly will they be measuring? There is no way it will be anything like precious levels! Seriously is that going to be passed off as evidence af traffic evaporation? They are also measuring the traffic on RailtonL Rd now, just like Waltham Forest you know the data where they say “Oh, look!traffic down by 80%, just coz we cut off roads in nearly all directions!” I mean why bother with that one it’s just embarrassing!

Congestion levels outside of central London (i.e. outside of the congestion zone) are higher than at 2019 levels.

Road congestion levels in outer London higher than before lockdown

Exclusive: congestion climbed above 2019 levels in August as people went back to using cars after lockdown

www.theguardian.com

 

[Brassed off]

Congestion levels outside of central London (i.e. outside of the congestion zone) are higher than at 2019 levels.

Road congestion levels in outer London higher than before lockdown

Exclusive: congestion climbed above 2019 levels in August as people went back to using cars after lockdown

www.theguardian.com

Yes I saw that but our LTN is central and the city is dead! So why are we experiencing congestion locally at all? Imagine when it really starts to return to normal? It’s no going to ‘evaporate’

 

[Rushy]

You just need to take back the comment that I selectively quoted something - you have no idea where I got it from.

Yes I agree. It is obvious that you had no idea what article the quote you posted had been lifted from.

 

[teuchter]

Yes I saw that but our LTN is central and the city is dead! So why are we experiencing congestion locally at all? Imagine when it really starts to return to normal? It’s no going to ‘evaporate’

Your geography seems a bit confused. Brixton is not in central London.

But in any case you seem to have no interest in understanding what is meant by 'traffic evaporation' or why it happens.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Yes I agree. It is obvious that you had no idea what article the quote you posted had been lifted from.

You don’t.

 

[Not a Vet]

Yes I saw that but our LTN is central and the city is dead! So why are we experiencing congestion locally at all? Imagine when it really starts to return to normal? It’s no going to ‘evaporate’

Bridge works in Herne Hill? The traffic will change as people’s behaviour changes. My wife is switching (largely, not sure if is pissing down) to cycling to work rather than driving. Local businesses need to adapt to changing market conditions

 

[Gramsci]

[QU

You don’t.

If you are going to quote something it is not unreasonable to be asked to link to where the quote comes from. So can you post up where you got that quote from.

Whilst Im on this you posted up twitter about TFL survey on LTNs saying 51% support them. I can't find it. Can you post up link to full survey.

 

[wurlycurly]

The 51% support comes from a TFL sample of 1,007 Londoners between Aug 24 until Sep 6. It's on the Twitter feed of the BBC's Tom Edwards. Here's a link to the twitter feed but I can't find the original data.

 

[toblerone3]

Another complication to note is that the DfT has changed its traffic counting methodology. This is messing with the baseline. So no one really knows what the traffic levels were before LTNs were introduced. https://assets.publishing.service.g...511/traffic-statistics-methodology-review.pdf

 

[Gramsci]

The 51% support comes from a TFL sample of 1,007 Londoners between Aug 24 until Sep 6. It's on the Twitter feed of the BBC's Tom Edwards. Here's a link to the twitter feed but I can't find the original data.

I cant find the original either.

As sleaterkinney posted up the twitter I want to see the actual survey.

 

[sleaterkinney]

[QU


If you are going to quote something it is not unreasonable to be asked to link to where the quote comes from. So can you post up where you got that quote from.

Whilst Im on this you posted up twitter about TFL survey on LTNs saying 51% support them. I can't find it. Can you post up link to full survey.

Maybe the BBC were selectively quoting too!

 

[co-op]

Yes I saw that but our LTN is central and the city is dead! So why are we experiencing congestion locally at all? Imagine when it really starts to return to normal? It’s no going to ‘evaporate’

Yes it almost certainly is going to evaporate. Remember when the Congestion Charge was introduced? I can’t be certain of how long the CC effect lasted but there definitely was one - suddenly Central London has loads fewer cars and everyone was driving fast - I remember it well, as a cyclist it made me realise that actually traffic jams are quite safe for us. Anyway all the non CC traffic was displaced somewhere or evaporated. There was the usual wailing and then everything went back to normal; central London pretty jammed mostly and all the areas around it the same. The number of urban car journeys that are literally “necessary” is tiny, nearly all are actually discretionary - regardless of the fact that 90% of urban drivers will swear blind that they “need” a car etc. If you make more capacity available more journeys will be made, if you take capacity away, fewer journeys will be made. People drive to a level of inconvenience, when they reach it suddenly their journey isn’t necessary.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Behold, the moment when anti LTN fuckwits reached peak cunt:

 

[Winot]

 

[Gramsci]

Maybe the BBC were selectively quoting too!

So you're just going to post up Twitter posts and quotes without reference to where the info comes from.

That's really not helpful.

 

[sleaterkinney]

So you're just going to post up Twitter posts and quotes without reference to where the info comes from.

That's really not helpful.

It's a BBC Journalist quoting a TFL survey. If you think it's made up then I can't really help you.

 

[Gramsci]

It's a BBC Journalist quoting a TFL survey. If you think it's made up then I can't really help you.

That's not the point I was making.

Putting up Twitter posts or quotes without supplying the original sources is not helpful at all.

 

[Gramsci]

It's a BBC Journalist quoting a TFL survey. If you think it's made up then I can't really help you.

I was not implying that at all.

As you say its a quote. Where is the whole survey?

 

[sleaterkinney]

That's not the point I was making.

Putting up Twitter posts or quotes without supplying the original sources is not helpful at all.

If you are accusing me of misquoting Rees Mogg, here is the quote, in an answer to Dean Russell (Watford) (Con)

Business of the House - Thursday 17 September 2020 - Hansard - UK Parliament

Hansard record of the item ' Business of the House' on Thursday 17 September 2020.

hansard.parliament.uk

I am absolutely fine with posting up twitter posts from BBC journalists, like I said if you think it's made up then I can't really help you.

 

[sparkybird]

There is currently sooo little traffic in London at the moment! The west end is dead due to the virus! What exactly will they be measuring? There is no way it will be anything like precious levels! Seriously is that going to be passed off as evidence af traffic evaporation? They are also measuring the traffic on RailtonL Rd now, just like Waltham Forest you know the data where they say “Oh, look!traffic down by 80%, just coz we cut off roads in nearly all directions!” I mean why bother with that one it’s just embarrassing!

What you mean is there is so little traffic in central London. Elsewhere traffic levels have risen as people use their cars to move around locally instead of the bus, tram, train or tube. I live in Lambeth and definitely there is more traffic in my neighbourhood than pre-covid. And with second waves etc, it's not going to change, probably it will get worse. Many of these local journeys are made by people who could do them on foot or bike. That would take their car off the road, leaving more space for someone who has no choice but to use a car.

 

[Brassed off]

What you mean is there is so little traffic in central London. Elsewhere traffic levels have risen as people use their cars to move around locally instead of the bus, tram, train or tube. I live in Lambeth and definitely there is more traffic in my neighbourhood than pre-covid. And with second waves etc, it's not going to change, probably it will get worse. Many of these local journeys are made by people who could do them on foot or bike. That would take their car off the road, leaving more space for someone who has no choice but to use a car.

Truth is we don’t really know. But with intro of ULEZ and change in commuter behaviour in ‘west end city’ ect why do you need punishing LTN’s that hurt business & those whose disability is impaired. It would be grt to see them paused adapted to benefit sections of communities that feel excluded and I’m going to say ‘cheated’!
It’s evident radical change is needed but ‘roll out’ on this scale without full consultation’first’ ( I completely understand why that happened) has thrown up inequities, to say it hasn’t is to ignore there magnitude across London and the huge sense of unfairness which is corrosive.
Dulwich have approach Southwark about timed bollards, for instance ect.. there must be so many other ways to mitigate their damage.
Waiting 18months will kill certain shops,they are already begging for someone to listen. Got to go but you get my drift.

 

[co-op]

Behold, the moment when anti LTN fuckwits reached peak cunt:

If you needed proof that this has got nothing to do with logic or reason, this is a pretty perfect example. It’s pure emotion, borderline crazy really.

 

[sleaterkinney]

For all you MS paint fans, this is the next one going into Lambeth:

 

[teuchter]

you get my drift.

No, I don't. What you have written seems completely incoherent.

 

[co-op]

Truth is we don’t really know. But with intro of ULEZ and change in commuter behaviour in ‘west end city’ ect why do you need punishing LTN’s that hurt business & those whose disability is impaired. It would be grt to see them paused adapted to benefit sections of communities that feel excluded and I’m going to say ‘cheated’!
It’s evident radical change is needed but ‘roll out’ on this scale without full consultation’first’ ( I completely understand why that happened) has thrown up inequities, to say it hasn’t is to ignore there magnitude across London and the huge sense of unfairness which is corrosive.
Dulwich have approach Southwark about timed bollards, for instance ect.. there must be so many other ways to mitigate their damage.
Waiting 18months will kill certain shops,they are already begging for someone to listen. Got to go but you get my drift.

Why bother post up more “arguments” when you haven’t tried coming back on a single point I’ve raised with you? I’d go with the “worse than the Nazis” line if I were you, it’s got more zing. Stupid and offensive for sure, but GREAT zing.

 

[teuchter]

For all you MS paint fans, this is the next one going into Lambeth:

View attachment 230811

I have to say this one is really quite controversial and divisive. I used to live within this area, and would have been furious that I had been deemed to live in "Tulse Hill". I'd be down at the town hall demanding a retraction.

 

[Aristocrat]

There is currently sooo little traffic in London at the moment! The west end is dead due to the virus! What exactly will they be measuring? There is no way it will be anything like precious levels! Seriously is that going to be passed off as evidence af traffic evaporation? They are also measuring the traffic on RailtonL Rd now, just like Waltham Forest you know the data where they say “Oh, look!traffic down by 80%, just coz we cut off roads in nearly all directions!” I mean why bother with that one it’s just embarrassing!

Here are some of those 'low traffic levels' in an area that just had the LTN taken out.