Can’t think of a straightforward explanation but by removing the SW LTN we have just massively increased capacity in the area so that will encourage people to drive that were put off from driving due to congestion on the A23.Is there a reason for why suspending the Streatham Wells LTN would make the traffic down New Park Road (from Brixton Hill to the south circular) a nightmare again?
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
I think the poor weather we have been having recently i
The design of the LTN with LCR basically free flowing and SHR being the main way in/out seems a bit flawed.
Agree with this. The extra large yellow box junctions on that southbound bit of SHR have the unintended consequence of giving traffic coming out of SW priority over buses.
The design of the LTN with LCR basically free flowing and SHR being the main way in/out seems a bit flawed.
I was sent this by a neighbour.
www.onlondon.co.uk
It's quite refreshing to see someone else agree with me, and to have put it more articulately as well.
How to get a Low Traffic Neighbourhood scheme wrong
The now-suspended Streatham Wells project has been a harmful debacle, reflecting poorly on Lambeth Council
www.onlondon.co.uk
It's quite refreshing to see someone else agree with me, and to have put it more articulately as well.
sparkybird
ask the bird...
Although she incorrectly states that there is a distributor road through the middle of it and that Streatham Wells has poor public transport links.
It's all relative, isn't it? Compared to where I grew up, the transport in Streatham Wells is amazing. But compared to most parts of Lambeth, it isn't great.
I definitely think that the council should have done something to improve bus services in the area before going live with the LTN. In fact, I still think they should do this, regardless of their previous position that it is TfL's responsibility alone. It is the buses which have brought the LTN down. You can inconvenience cars all you like, as long as people have public transport options, especially in the winter.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Is that really true? Here's a map of bus routes in S London. The density in the Streatham Wells area doesn't look particularly unusual for south London.
And it's surrounded by several rail stations too.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
The council doesn't run the buses.
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
Basically it all hinges on proximity to the A23/train stations, the eastern side of SW rates poorly on PTAL
I know that, but surely there must be some communication between Lambeth and TfL to tell them that they are going to implement an LTN and there's a chance that the likes of the 315 won't be sufficient for the Valley Road area, or the P13 for the ABC roads.
It would be great if the LTNs could be used as a catalyst for more frequent buses, and buses with more capacity.
As I have banged my drum here repeatedly, the fact that the only bus between Tulse Hill station and Streatham High Road is the P13, which is a short wheelbase single decker and is timetabled every 20 minutes, is ridiculous. Surely the implementation of LTN in the ABC roads would increase demand on that very route, yet no improvements were made.
Sometimes I feel that an inadequate bus route ends up driving people away, and then poor passenger numbers are claimed to show a lack of demand. I am sure that if a 68 bus terminated at Streatham instead of West Norwood, taking in Christchurch Road and Streatham High Road, that stretch would be at capacity immediately. Is it something to do with an internal boundary between West Norwood and Brixton Hill garages, two different zones?
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That map doesn't accurately represent the number of routes on a single road, the frequency of routes, nor the type of bus.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I imagine that the reality is TfL don't want to invest lots of scarce resources redesigning bus routes in an area that's about to have an LTN trial conducted, one where the street design might get altered several times or (as we have seen in Streatham Wells) abandoned or suspended. Once a scheme (and associated traffic patterns) beds in, I'd guess they'd then be more likely to look at adjusting routing and frequency.
Yup it's not ideal. Ideally it would all happen in a joined up and harmonious way. But it's like lots of things to do with LTNs - the realistic options are doing it in a slightly shambolic and under resourced way vs. not doing it at all.
While of course public transport could be better in SW I don't think it's so bad that you can make some kind of argument that you are asking car users to endure such intolerable conditions using public transport that it's not reasonable to make their car use a bit less convenient. Millions of residents of London rely on public transport of a similar kind of quality every day, and have no alternative.
The more people that are reliant on public transport the better the provision is and the better it gets funded. London itself as a whole (relative to the rest of the UK) is a demonstration of this.
Why are TfL currently short of funds? Because central govt, driven by the interests of the UK's car dependent majority are refusing to help cover the revenue black hole that happened during covid.
Yup it's not ideal. Ideally it would all happen in a joined up and harmonious way. But it's like lots of things to do with LTNs - the realistic options are doing it in a slightly shambolic and under resourced way vs. not doing it at all.
While of course public transport could be better in SW I don't think it's so bad that you can make some kind of argument that you are asking car users to endure such intolerable conditions using public transport that it's not reasonable to make their car use a bit less convenient. Millions of residents of London rely on public transport of a similar kind of quality every day, and have no alternative.
The more people that are reliant on public transport the better the provision is and the better it gets funded. London itself as a whole (relative to the rest of the UK) is a demonstration of this.
Why are TfL currently short of funds? Because central govt, driven by the interests of the UK's car dependent majority are refusing to help cover the revenue black hole that happened during covid.
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
I don’t know if it’s coincidence but I’ve seen/been in a lot more traffic in surrounding areas since the stopping of the SW LTN.
When is NPR actually meant to become a school road? I know it was planned but I can’t find any record of it now, and it’s remarkable how they’ve prioritised a whole load of schools on quiet roads but that NPR has no traffic restriction around its school and has been made a LTN through road. That road is really making me hate cars/drivers atm.
When is NPR actually meant to become a school road? I know it was planned but I can’t find any record of it now, and it’s remarkable how they’ve prioritised a whole load of schools on quiet roads but that NPR has no traffic restriction around its school and has been made a LTN through road. That road is really making me hate cars/drivers atm.
Was it ever going to be? Can’t see a Richard Atkins on the list and presumably TfL wouldn’t allow NPR to be closed for a school street the same reasons it didn’t allow it for the local LTN.I don’t know if it’s coincidence but I’ve seen/been in a lot more traffic in surrounding areas since the stopping of the SW LTN.
When is NPR actually meant to become a school road? I know it was planned but I can’t find any record of it now, and it’s remarkable how they’ve prioritised a whole load of schools on quiet roads but that NPR has no traffic restriction around its school and has been made a LTN through road. That road is really making me hate cars/drivers atm.
School Streets dates, times and locations
School Streets restrictions take place during school term dates only.School Streets operate during the school term during school term dates. Please note that the restrictions will continue to apply on inset days, strike days or any other irregular days within the school term time.See our current...
www.lambeth.gov.uk
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
It WAS definitely on a list of planned school streets, I’ve seen it on a list and the fact that it’s not easily findable now makes me highly suspicious. If it doesn’t become a school street or even get the zebra crossing it so direly needs then that’s a dick move. If school streets are only implemented on roads that are already relatively quiet then what’s the bloody point of them?Was it ever going to be? Can’t see a Richard Atkins on the list and presumably TfL wouldn’t allow NPR to be closed for a school street the same reasons it didn’t allow it for the local LTN.
School Streets dates, times and locations
School Streets restrictions take place during school term dates only.School Streets operate during the school term during school term dates. Please note that the restrictions will continue to apply on inset days, strike days or any other irregular days within the school term time.See our current...
It is so dangerous and has just got worse since SW reopened, and about 4 out of 5 drivers are unwilling in slow moving/constant traffic to pause to let kids cross. Not to mention the vans and trucks moving around carelessly and parking where they shouldn’t on the road intersecting with the HiH on the corner. I hate them all. Particularly the dickhead who shouted abuse at me for daring to cycle with my 9 year old down it.
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
One day I will completely flip and chain myself in the middle of the street so the cars can’t pass 
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
Ah, knowledgeable other half has woken up and has said it is allegedly planned for September this year.
Yes, New Park Road seemed to get some coloured dots and a bit of a chicane to help with traffic at the school, rather than any solid traffic measure.It WAS definitely on a list of planned school streets, I’ve seen it on a list and the fact that it’s not easily findable now makes me highly suspicious. If it doesn’t become a school street or even get the zebra crossing it so direly needs then that’s a dick move. If school streets are only implemented on roads that are already relatively quiet then what’s the bloody point of them?
It is so dangerous and has just got worse since SW reopened, and about 4 out of 5 drivers are unwilling in slow moving/constant traffic to pause to let kids cross. Not to mention the vans and trucks moving around carelessly and parking where they shouldn’t on the road intersecting with the HiH on the corner. I hate them all. Particularly the dickhead who shouted abuse at me for daring to cycle with my 9 year old down it.
School street are less direct than protecting a school entrance. If you look at Hitherfield School, the kids enter on Leigham Vale, but that is not where the school street is. Same with Julians, Kids enter on Leigham Court Road, school streets are Springwell and Etherstone. The intention is to stop people driving there rather than block traffic at the entrance itself. Does the Brixton Hill perform a similar function for Richard Atkins?
I’ve always thought that in LTN design, and parklets, school streets, all the roads strategy, that having Leigham Vale as no through road to vehicles and a wide, flat area with benches and trees outside the school entrance would make most sense.
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
I wouldn’t know as the amount of traffic on NPR seems to have shot up since BH LTN.
Don’t get me started on those bloody dots.
I would again, raise the P13 since the Streatham Hill LTN went live.
The Streatham Hill LTN aims to stop traffic through the ABC roads in both directions between Tulse Hill and Streatham Hill.
The P13 takes exactly that route. Less private cars gives people an opportunity to get onto the bus.
The bus frequency wasn’t changed, the bus type wasn’t changed. And this is well over three years later. As a result, motorist either drive to Streatham, if necessary, or else just drive somewhere else, without an LTN restriction, to do the same thing.
If TfL is tight with resources then they need to become more innovative, ensure they are getting value for their money, rather than just do what they’ve always done and claim they can’t do any more.
They’re more likely to be a distraction than anything else.Don’t get me started on those bloody dots.
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
Anecdotally a lot of people in Streatham hill gave up on driving to Streatham because of the traffic and now drive to Brixton instead (e.g. Acre lane Tesco) or West Norwood.
Ironic that the traffic is being displaced further away and journeys becoming longer.
I know a lot of people are reliant on P13 and it could definitely be improved
There was a consultation on filtering NPR in 2015 but they stopped short as there were too many objections. The dots and chicanes are just shit. This is why the council shouldn't just listen to people responding to consultations.
New consultation on New Park Road safety
Plans for a trial closure of New Park Road and others near Richard Atkins School off Brixton Hill have been dropped and there will be new consultation on how to improve safety for pedestrians and cyclists in the area. There were 12 road accidents near the school resulting in injury between 2010 a
brixtonblog.com
Ah yes, planned for October according to this - though can't see New Park Road being closed off for it unfortunatley:
teuchter
je suis teuchter
By the way it looks to me like the P13 is every 15 minutes (it was increased from 3ph to 4ph in 2014).
Is it frequently full to standing?
They've already had to make various cuts, remember the consultation a year or so ago about which bus routes to cut back? They are currently making savings by cutting back on maintenance which is not sustainable in the long term and I'd say it's already visible on the tube. There may be options available to them to raise more funding from within London, possibly via council tax or business rates, although I'm not sure how feasible that is. There is also talk of raising money via road pricing (which I'd support) which no doubt will raise a lot of complaints if/when it happens. I think I'm right in saying that unlike the res of the UK, the maintenance of the trunk road network in London is not paid for directlly by central government but by TfL - arguably this means public transport users, through fares, subsidise the road network for private motorists. So road pricing would be entirely justified.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
By the way anyone can give their views on road pricing here
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
It was considered as part of the LTN design but TFL vetoed it because it would cause delays at the S Circular A23 junction I think?There was a consultation on filtering NPR in 2015 but they stopped short as there were too many objections. The dots and chicanes are just shit. This is why the council shouldn't just listen to people responding to consultations.
New consultation on New Park Road safety
Plans for a trial closure of New Park Road and others near Richard Atkins School off Brixton Hill have been dropped and there will be new consultation on how to improve safety for pedestrians and cyclists in the area. There were 12 road accidents near the school resulting in injury between 2010 a
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Why do anti-LTN accounts just produce outright lies?
All of the filters in Ferndale use ANPR cameras which the emergency services are allowed to drive through. And always have been.
Ferndale is actually a perfect example. The only physical filter in the area is part of the estate - when that was built it was done so that there was no through traffic.
All of the filters in Ferndale use ANPR cameras which the emergency services are allowed to drive through. And always have been.
Ferndale is actually a perfect example. The only physical filter in the area is part of the estate - when that was built it was done so that there was no through traffic.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Brixton Hill monitoring report published.
love.lambeth.gov.uk
Love Lambeth
Lambeth Council has published data compiled since the launch of the Brixton Hill low traffic neighbourhood trial.
love.lambeth.gov.uk
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