Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[alex_]

Question for the regular cyclists.

I’m not nearly as fit as I used to be since I stopped playing football. In fact I’m unfit

The hills on a bike wipe me out and I often have to get off the bike and walk. If I cycled more often how long would it tough to get fit enough to handle the hills?

Is it it normal for hills to have that affect if you’re not used to them?

Also what’s the best way to get from Streatham common to Brixton avoiding the main road?

Big hills, use a lower gear than you probably need and take it easy. You’ll speed up as you go up the hill, but for the first 2/3 go slow.

Alex

 

[Bus Stopped]

Big hills, use a lower gear than you probably need and take it easy. You’ll speed up as you go up the hill, but for the first 2/3 go slow.

Alex

Yeah I put it in gear 1 or 2, but I still end up exhausted.

Is it just a matter of getting fitter? My mate said you can get used to it very quickly. But I wonder if there is something up in terms of how exhausted I get :/

 

[edcraw]

Yeah I put it in gear 1 or 2, but I still end up exhausted.

Is it just a matter of getting fitter? My mate said you can get used to it very quickly. But I wonder if there is something up in terms of how exhausted I get :/

They get a bit easier if you get a bit fitter but the older you get (& heavier in my case) the harder they get. Using a lime bike shows how easily e-bikes can make it.

As for getting from Streatham Common to Brixton (using part of the my selfish, uncaring route to Aldi) I’d do some version of Valley Road, left along Leigham Court Rd, Mount Nod, Hillside Rd, Palace Rd, Roupell Rd (using pedestrian crossing to cross South Circular), Upper Tulse Hill, Ostade Rd, Elm Park, Leander Road, Josephine Av, left onto Brixton Water Lane then St Matthews Rd to Brixton.

Far from perfect but not too hilly and mostly with very little traffic.

EDIT: That’s using 4 LTNs and would’ve been horrifying to do a few years ago!!

 

[Winot]

Brixton to Streatham shown here (I haven't checked it):

 

[Bus Stopped]

They get a bit easier if you get a bit fitter but the older you get (& heavier in my case) the harder they get. Using a lime bike shows how easily e-bikes can make it.

As for getting from Streatham Common to Brixton (using part of the my selfish, uncaring route to Aldi) I’d do some version of Valley Road, left along Leigham Court Rd, Mount Nod, Hillside Rd, Palace Rd, Roupell Rd (using pedestrian crossing to cross South Circular), Upper Tulse Hill, Ostade Rd, Elm Park, Leander Road, Josephine Av, left onto Brixton Water Lane then St Matthews Rd to Brixton.

Far from perfect but not too hilly and mostly with very little traffic.

EDIT: That’s using 4 LTNs and would’ve been horrifying to do a few years ago!!

Genuine thanks. I might get an e-bike as the bus problems have made me think I should cycle. Although I guess a normal bike would presumably get me fitter.

 

[Smick]

Genuine thanks. I might get an e-bike as the bus problems have made me think I should cycle. Although I guess a normal bike would presumably get me fitter.

I have no desire to get an e-bike. I don’t cycle very often, maybe twice per week, 25 minutes each way.

As the weather gets better, I’ll start going longer distances. Into town, Islington, Croydon. Im 47 and overweight, quite unfit. Nothing has ever made me think an e-bike would be a good idea.

The legal ones are too slow. The illegal ones leave you open to getting points on your driving license, are dangerous without a motorbike helmet / protective clothing, and most of them look fucking stupid.

 

[alex_]

I have no desire to get an e-bike. I don’t cycle very often, maybe twice per week, 25 minutes each way.

As the weather gets better, I’ll start going longer distances. Into town, Islington, Croydon. Im 47 and overweight, quite unfit. Nothing has ever made me think an e-bike would be a good idea.

The legal ones are too slow. The illegal ones leave you open to getting points on your driving license, are dangerous without a motorbike helmet / protective clothing, and most of them look fucking stupid.

According to TfL average car speed in inner London is about 12mph, max ebike speed is 15.5 mph, which is apparently too slow - how are you planning to do these journeys faster ?

 

[thebackrow]

According to TfL average car speed in inner London is about 12mph, max ebike speed is 15.5 mph, which is apparently too slow - how are you planning to do these journeys faster ?

I have some sympathy on this. I think there is some logic to the speed limit for them - it's pretty close to the pace a reasonably fit cyclist might ride at on the flat (enthusiastic pace rather than flat out). When I tried out an e-bike in London I was frequently riding just above and below the cut out speed, so the motor was cutting in and out. I think some e-bikes manage that transition better than others but if you're a 'fastish/fittish rider' you really only want it for the hills (but there are lightweight/lower assist e-bikes which will assist there and be OK to ride above the motor speed)

 

[Cat Fan]

You can ride from Streatham Wells to Kings Cross now entirely through LTNs or on protected cycleway. There are loads of similar routes around

View attachment 414903

Sort of, but it's very zig-zaggy and/or involves going through central Brixton, no? Bit of a stretch to say it's entirely protected although take your point on pedestrian crossings

 

[Smick]

According to TfL average car speed in inner London is about 12mph, max ebike speed is 15.5 mph, which is apparently too slow - how are you planning to do these journeys faster ?

On my pedal bike. Lime bikes only do 15, I pass them all the time.

From Tulse Hill, I’ll get into town more quickly on my bicycle than any 15mph e-bike will do. And I don’t have to charge it, nobody seems keen to nick it and it doesn’t weigh a quarter of a ton.

 

[Smick]

I have some sympathy on this. I think there is some logic to the speed limit for them - it's pretty close to the pace a reasonably fit cyclist might ride at on the flat (enthusiastic pace rather than flat out). When I tried out an e-bike in London I was frequently riding just above and below the cut out speed, so the motor was cutting in and out. I think some e-bikes manage that transition better than others but if you're a 'fastish/fittish rider' you really only want it for the hills (but there are lightweight/lower assist e-bikes which will assist there and be OK to ride above the motor speed)

The ones I have ridden use regenerative technology to charge the battery when you’re going over 25 km/h. Cycle down Brixton Hill, you hit 25 km/h and the bike stays at that pace, using your momentum to charge the battery.

Pedal and your efforts go into the battery and not increasing your speed.

I’m in favour of restricting the speed of e-bikes because they’re extremely heavy and will do huge damage in a collision with a pedestrian above that speed. If you want to go quickly, buy a proper bike. If you need battery assistance then 25km/h should be enough.

 

[edcraw]

Sort of, but it's very zig-zaggy and/or involves going through central Brixton, no? Bit of a stretch to say it's entirely protected although take your point on pedestrian crossings

Cycling through Brixton is fine on back streets now using Railton Rd, Atlantic Av & Pope’s Rd.

The routes with back streets into town are pretty direct but can take a while to work out what works best.

 

[thebackrow]

Sort of, but it's very zig-zaggy and/or involves going through central Brixton, no? Bit of a stretch to say it's entirely protected although take your point on pedestrian crossings

Not entirely protected, but quiet streets in LTNs, full time bus lanes or cycle way. Personally I would avoid Brixton by going from Tulse Hill LTN to Brixton hill LTN. Either at Holmwoud, upper Tulse Hill or lambert. Then cut across acre lane through Ferndale to join the A3 at Clapham North.

Then the fast direct is a3/Kennington Road/the cut. More leisurely using Q5 through Oval LTN.

 

[thebackrow]

The ones I have ridden use regenerative technology to charge the battery when you’re going over 25 km/h. Cycle down Brixton Hill, you hit 25 km/h and the bike stays at that pace, using your momentum to charge the battery.

What are the motors? I’ve honestly never come across one that does that

 

[thebackrow]

I agree. I even went out of my way to say 4x4 owners are worse.

"All cyclists are posh and entitled" is a bit of a classic anti-LTN trope.
And there is significant 'othering' of cyclists that goes on, which definitely contributes to the attitude of some drivers.

Spat at, abused and run off the road: why do some people hate cyclists so much?

Bike riders have always faced aggression from car drivers. But they now find themselves on the latest front in the culture wars – with anger whipped up by the rightwing press

www.theguardian.com

How does someone cycle in a 'posh and entitled' manner? Are you judging them to be 'posh' because of the way they speak or are they riding in tweed and a top hat? Is it OK to cycle in an inconsiderate way if you're sufficiently working class?

 

[thebackrow]

Is it just a matter of getting fitter? My mate said you can get used to it very quickly. But I wonder if there is something up in terms of how exhausted I get :/

I'd agree with your mate - it gets easier quickly, especially if you're cycling regularly. But cycling fitness uses different muscles to running/playing football. If you were riding every weekday you'd feel a big difference within a few weeks.

 

[alex_]

How does someone cycle in a 'posh and entitled' manner? Are you judging them to be 'posh' because of the way they speak or are they riding in tweed and a top hat? Is it OK to cycle in an inconsiderate way if you're sufficiently working class?

I reckon monocle / no monocle, and if in doubt check if the bicycle is actually a horse, that should clear it up

 

[Bus Stopped]

"All cyclists are posh and entitled" is a bit of a classic anti-LTN trope.
And there is significant 'othering' of cyclists that goes on, which definitely contributes to the attitude of some drivers.

Spat at, abused and run off the road: why do some people hate cyclists so much?

Bike riders have always faced aggression from car drivers. But they now find themselves on the latest front in the culture wars – with anger whipped up by the rightwing press

www.theguardian.com

How does someone cycle in a 'posh and entitled' manner? Are you judging them to be 'posh' because of the way they speak or are they riding in tweed and a top hat? Is it OK to cycle in an inconsiderate way if you're sufficiently working class?

I honestly didn’t mean much by it and apologise if it came across as a slight on cyclists. I’ve just come across some cyclists who are clearly posh and up themselves who go through red lights and speed in bike lanes with no thought for other cyclists. I think things seem to have changed but there was a point where cyclists weren’t as diverse as they are now.

And yes I’m going by the way they speak. But anyway it’s not that important and as said posh car users annoy me more.

And yes anyone being anti social is wrong but certain backgrounds do disproportionately give people a sense of entitlement.

 

[sparkybird]

Yes to cycle lanes, yes to e bikes although they're expensive, heavy to lift and prone to getting stolen.

LTNs for me don't massively help because there is no top down strategy for connecting them together to create safe routes for journeys over 1 mile let's say

I walk into Brixton from Streatham using LTN's all the way. The crossing on Leigham Court Road is a zebra and the pelican crossing on the South Circ has one of the quickest response times I've ever found!

 

[sparkybird]

Genuine thanks. I might get an e-bike as the bus problems have made me think I should cycle. Although I guess a normal bike would presumably get me fitter.

I'm pretty sure you can use the bike without e assist and just use the e bit to help you up hills, if needed!

 

[Cat Fan]

I walk into Brixton from Streatham using LTN's all the way. The crossing on Leigham Court Road is a zebra and the pelican crossing on the South Circ has one of the quickest response times I've ever found!

Yes, it's a great route into Brixton via the LTNs. Or just to Brockwell park. We walk that way a lot

 

[Smick]

the pelican crossing on the South Circ has one of the quickest response times I've ever found!

yes, that one by Fenstanton school is brilliant. I walk my son home that way every day. He scoots, I walk.

To be fair, in the morning we always cross a bit further down, at that alley to High Trees beside City Heights Academy and I’d say 1 in 3 drivers in each direction will always stop and let you on and off the central median.

During the week just gone, we walked Probyn, Hardel Rise, Tulse Hill. It was grim with all the noise and traffic on the gyratory.

 

[Smick]

Yes, it's a great route into Brixton via the LTNs. Or just to Brockwell park. We walk that way a lot

Getting down Lyham and across to Clapham Common is also a great route to walk and cycle to some greenery, or to the parkrun on a Saturday instead of Brockwell.

 

[alex_]

Getting down Lyham and across to Clapham Common is also a great route to walk and cycle to some greenery, or to the parkrun on a Saturday instead of Brockwell.

Pre ltn lyham was awful to cycle on

 

[Agent Sparrow]

"All cyclists are posh and entitled" is a bit of a classic anti-LTN trope.
And there is significant 'othering' of cyclists that goes on, which definitely contributes to the attitude of some drivers.

Spat at, abused and run off the road: why do some people hate cyclists so much?

Bike riders have always faced aggression from car drivers. But they now find themselves on the latest front in the culture wars – with anger whipped up by the rightwing press

www.theguardian.com

How does someone cycle in a 'posh and entitled' manner? Are you judging them to be 'posh' because of the way they speak or are they riding in tweed and a top hat? Is it OK to cycle in an inconsiderate way if you're sufficiently working class?

Tbf even though there are some parallels, I do think cycling has to be classed differently from identity based othered groups. Not least because it’s a choice, and also a role that people pick up and put down and can hold alongside other road using positions. That doesn’t mean that there’s any justification for judging all cyclists as a homogeneous group or abusing them.

It’s also worth saying that it intersects with proper lived experiences of marginalisation - as a small, female cyclist I’ve had more numerous experiences of unnecessary snideness, abuse, intimidation and even sexual harassment than men who cycle similarly to me when I’ve compared notes. It’s particularly the case for behaviours coming from male pedestrians IME. Even this week I was on the receiving end of a snide comment I don’t believe would have been said to a man.

 

[sparkybird]

Bus Stopped how were the buses this evening? It looked a bit better, but I was only walking.

 

[Bus Stopped]

Bus Stopped how were the buses this evening? It looked a bit better, but I was only walking.

I didn’t take one today (was working from home) but the traffic everywhere seemed better when I went out.

I have to say I think there must be more to it than just the LTN as it seems to fluctuate so much.

And I was thinking this evening I guess the LTN has made me think seriously about cycling, which is probably a good thing.

 

[sparkybird]

I didn’t take one today (was working from home) but the traffic everywhere seemed better when I went out.

I have to say I think there must be more to it than just the LTN as it seems to fluctuate so much.

And I was thinking this evening I guess the LTN has made me think seriously about cycling, which is probably a good thing.

Thanks for the response. It did seem better.
I wonder if it's due to a big gas pipe repair works in Mitcham (Locks Lane) being finished? many drivers would use the A23 as an alternative.
Anyway we'll find out again in July as they are then finishing the 'other side' of the road of that repair
Perhaps the roads are at such capacity that it only takes a small thing to tip it over.

I hope you enjoy your cycling!

 

[Bus Stopped]

Thanks for the response. It did seem better.
I wonder if it's due to a big gas pipe repair works in Mitcham (Locks Lane) being finished? many drivers would use the A23 as an alternative.
Anyway we'll find out again in July as they are then finishing the 'other side' of the road of that repair
Perhaps the roads are at such capacity that it only takes a small thing to tip it over.

I hope you enjoy your cycling!

Thank you

I think you might have hit the nail on the head. The capacity is so near to the tipping point that things that might previously have caused delays now cause major issues. I guess it depends how often that happens in terms of whether it can just be lived with in regards to buses.

Or if the kinds of measures that people have outlined on here (bus filters, more bus lanes etc), would work. TfL should read this thread!

 

[edcraw]

Streatham Wells LTN is suspending- looking forward to going back to the glorious up topic that was beforehand with super fast buses….