editor
hiraethified
The point is that you've made a claim that seems, frankly, unbelievable and looks like the sort of misinformation used to discourage people from getting out of their stinky cars and taking up cycling.
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
editor
hiraethified
And here's the reality:
www.cyclinguk.org
Cycling UK’s cycling statistics | Cycling UK
Do you need facts and figures about cycling? Here’s Cycling UK’s latest round-up
www.cyclinguk.org
have they become right wing and anti green policies because of it?
Bus Stopped
Active Member
I cycle myself lol and think it’s a good and cheap mode of transport. I just wouldn’t take my daughter on the roads.
Cyclists do get injuries, it’s hardly uncommon.
Bus Stopped
Active Member
I’ve cycled daily for 10 years and never had a bad injury. (swiftly touches wood)
Bus Stopped
Active Member
And here's the reality:
Cycling UK’s cycling statistics | Cycling UK
Do you need facts and figures about cycling? Here’s Cycling UK’s latest round-up
I just can’t believe those figures. There is no way in 2021 only 71 cyclists were slightly injured in the entire year.
Bus Stopped
Active Member
In 2022, 91 pedal cyclists were killed in Great Britain, whilst 4,056 were reported to be seriously injured (adjusted) and 11,546 slightly injured (adjusted).
It’s per 1,000 trips round the Earth (25million miles). There were 4.2 billion miles cycled on public roads in 2021 apparently.
Bus Stopped
Active Member
So 15,500 people last year were either injured or seriously injured.
Over 30 or so years I don’t think it’s particularly out there that most of the regular cyclists I know have been injured. I probably shouldn’t have put bad injuries as losing a tooth probably doesn’t qualify.
That was slightly injured - seriously injured is about a third of that. Think you know some very unlucky or just bad cyclists.
Bus Stopped
Active Member
Fair enough lol! On the flip side it’s made me very pro cycle lanes, and definitely more favourable to most LTNs.
The anti cyclist mentality among some drivers is pathetic.
Although the posh entitled cyclists you get do sometimes wind me up lol but not nearly as much as posh 4x4 owners.
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
I have the same experience, all the London cyclists I know have been injured or at least had some scary near misses. Actually dying is extremely rare, but still feels a lot less safe than taking public transport.
Hats off to anyone who is happy to cycle around their two under 5s in a bike trailer up and down the hills of S London in all weather conditions, but let's be honest it's not hugely viable. It might be viable in lovely flat Amsterdam with all the cycle lanes, but it's not in London.
It's also not guaranteed that your destination will have secure cycle storage, and you may be a sweaty, stinky mess in summer or chilled to the bone in winter by the time you arrive.
Cycling is a wonderful leisure activity and for keeping fit, but it has severe limitations as a mode of transport that the hardcore cycling nuts will never see.
I actually think that soon we may see e-scooters overtake cycling in popularity.
They are everywhere in some European cities and they have a number of advantages over cycling.
Bus Stopped
Active Member
The Tory candidate for the new borough of Streatham and Croydon (can’t remember the exact name), is being sickening over his attacks on the LTN. Have to say it makes me understand why some are reluctant to criticise. Absolutely horrendous politics.
I think you’re making out cycling to be something it’s not. Seeing a huge increase in cycling lately all over London - it’s not for everyone but it’s cheap and makes local / medium trips much easier for those without cars. Yes, not all routes can be done by 5 year olds but most secondary school kids should be within cyclable distance and making side streets safer massively encourages it.
Cycling can feel more dangerous than it is because of the amount of shit, dangerous and frankly selfish drivers that don’t give a shit or actively hate cyclists (no surprise that opponents of LTNs tend to massively hate cyclists). Not having to share the roads with so many of these drivers makes it feel a lot safer.
Don’t see scooters taking off (why haven’t they already if so?) but Lime bikes are showing the massive appetite for electric bikes. (EDIT: realise you prob mean e-scooters, was thinking mopeds. Can see them helping but they’re v similar to bikes and would prob skew to much younger users, e-bikes are better & more inclusive imo.)
Bike storage definitely needs to get better but there’s no need for a shower after most cycles and it’s easy to dress appropriately for all weather’s, basically the same as if you were walking. Incidentally loads of kids that get driven to school seem to be taken without coats in the winter or rain so they have nothing to wear in breaks - cars have made people stop knowing how to deal with the weather!
There’s a real problem that, as we haven’t supported cycle infrastructure, the only people cycling have been those brave enough to do so so that then people think that’s who cyclists are. Now that we’re enabling it we’re seeing the demographics change to include nearly everyone.
Finally, no surprise Tory candidates are against LTNs. Car culture is inherently about selfishness and so lends itself to their worldview. Forcing people to spend large proportions of their income on transport is one of the biggest social inequalities.
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I have never cycled anywhere in London that I haven’t found a bike hoop within a couple of minutes walk. Even in places where car parking is £6-£10 per hour.
I agree with you as regards bike trailers though. When you think of all the crumpled zones and airbags required on cars, then people put their kids in a box of plywood and steel piping. I wouldn’t do it. There’s too little control. I’d rather have a bike seat or even a cargo bike setup.
As for e-scooters, I think something needs done to make them legal because the fact that they are all illegal makes the safe ones with responsible users on the same side of the law as those doing 40mph on the wrong side of the road, with LEDs flashing everywhere and hopping on and off pavements.
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
The private hire ones are legal. TFL made it so they have to be parked in designated bays which is a good improvement on what I have seen in mainland Europe
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
what makes someone posh and entitled? and how do they wind you up?
Or is this just another bit of 'othering'?
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
This rather ignores pedestrian injuries in London. Not insignificant numbers of people are injured by cars crashing into bus stops each year in London.
Nine in hospital as car crashes into London bus stop
Eight pedestrians and a driver are being treated for injuries in hospital after a car crashed into a bus stop in Aldwych.
www.bbc.co.uk
e bikes really do remove hills as any barrier. so your argument is we need more cycle lanes and safe minor roads in LTNs.
Again, the reality is that cycling in winter is just fine - you don't need many clothes to be comfortable and sweat free (whereas often I'll find myself sweating on a tube or bus after wearing enough clothes to wait at a bus stop or walk to the tube.
Which is also one of the issues with e-scooters (or mopeds) - because you're not exerting yourself at all you get really cold.
Likewise in summer, if you ride at a gentle pace the airflow is pleasantly cool on a hot day. Theres no need to arrive a sweaty mess any more than there is if you walk. (again, public transport is super hot in summer)
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Cat Fan
Cats and stats
Yes to cycle lanes, yes to e bikes although they're expensive, heavy to lift and prone to getting stolen.
LTNs for me don't massively help because there is no top down strategy for connecting them together to create safe routes for journeys over 1 mile let's say
Streatham Wells, Streatham Hill, Tulse Hill, Brixton Hill, Fernadale, Larkhall Rise, Oval LTNs all link up and take you straight into central london now and onto roads with bike lanes. Crossings between need to be better but can use pedestrian ones. Absolutely transformational!!
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
they dont have to be any of those things. And even a top of the range e bike is cheap compared to a car.
Swapfiets or Buzzbike will 'lease' you an e-bike, with theft cover, from about £60 a month (£2 a day - cheaper than a travel card)
these are addressable problems.
Lambeth's healthy routes plan is quite literally a top down strategy for connecting together LTNS to create safe routes. Yes, it depends on TfL in many cases to get their act together to do the crossings over main roads, but in most cases you can use a nearby pedestrian crossing if you're really not confident.
You can ride from Streatham Wells to Kings Cross now entirely through LTNs or on protected cycleway. There are loads of similar routes around
This map shows all the LTNS and protected infra/quiet routes. Yes, there are gaps and yes, at the moment a lot of destinations need a bit of thought to plan a route but that is becoming less and less effort at more LTNS and cycleways are built.
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Bus Stopped
Active Member
I don’t think it’s in dispute that posh and entitled people exist and they wind me up as they are posh and entitled. In the case of cycling not least because of their attitude to other cyclists.
Also I think it’s a tad of an insult to actually oppressed groups to talk about cyclists as being “othered”.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
and lastly, you don't have to. If the weather's really shitty you get on public transport, or maybe drive if you've got a car, or get a cab. But those are the exceptions - most of the time the weather is just fine to ride a bike in the UK. It's rarely cold enough to be icy or really hot. It might rain quite a few days of the year, but that doesn't mean it's actually raining continuously and probably not during your trips.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
there are people. Some of them are arseholes. that's not really linked to their method of transport - there are people who can be objectionable walking down a pavement or standing in a crowd.
Bus Stopped
Active Member
I agree. I even went out of my way to say 4x4 owners are worse.
Bus Stopped
Active Member
Question for the regular cyclists.
I’m not nearly as fit as I used to be since I stopped playing football. In fact I’m unfit
The hills on a bike wipe me out and I often have to get off the bike and walk. If I cycled more often how long would it tough to get fit enough to handle the hills?
Is it it normal for hills to have that affect if you’re not used to them?
Also what’s the best way to get from Streatham common to Brixton avoiding the main road?
I’m not nearly as fit as I used to be since I stopped playing football. In fact I’m unfit
The hills on a bike wipe me out and I often have to get off the bike and walk. If I cycled more often how long would it tough to get fit enough to handle the hills?
Is it it normal for hills to have that affect if you’re not used to them?
Also what’s the best way to get from Streatham common to Brixton avoiding the main road?
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