Cat Fan
Cats and stats
I think the stat is that 54% of London households have one or more cars. And for those that don't, I expect many use Uber/taxis some of the time.
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
felonius monk
Well-Known Member
Big variation in car ownership by borough. No surprise that outer London boroughs have higher ownership.
"Research commissioned by Green London Assembly Member Sian Berry found that 24 per cent of outer Londoners feel forced to own a car, compared to 14 per cent of people in inner London. Similarly, 50 per cent of people in inner London say they are already able to live car-free, compared with less than one in three (32 per cent) outer Londoners. The nature of London’s transport system means inner London is much better connected than outer London."
Understanding car ownership in London
"Research commissioned by Green London Assembly Member Sian Berry found that 24 per cent of outer Londoners feel forced to own a car, compared to 14 per cent of people in inner London. Similarly, 50 per cent of people in inner London say they are already able to live car-free, compared with less than one in three (32 per cent) outer Londoners. The nature of London’s transport system means inner London is much better connected than outer London."
Understanding car ownership in London
Bus Stopped
Active Member
Better priority how? There is one junction at the cinema where it might make a slight difference. It won’t work.
Bus Stopped
Active Member
But why should bus users be deprioritised so much? You’re assuming that a few technical changes on the A23 will work. It won’t.
Continous bus lanes and priority at lights as has been suggested already. More roads is never the answer.
Bus Stopped
Active Member
There are bus lanes already. The only place there aren’t is where there are single lanes. Priority lights just won’t make enough difference. So instead of opening just Valley Road, and only during rush hours, we have the whole bus system screwed during commuting times?
As pointed out it’s the lights at the Odeon where buses are forced to merge with traffic and then can’t get across that causing the biggest issue.
If there was a filter there for buses and a bus lane the other side where it’s still 2 lanes that would help enormously.
Buses have always struggled here and this should be done anyway with or without an LTN.
Bus Stopped
Active Member
I agree but it just won’t be enough. But I appreciate you disagree.
I might be wrong but sometimes you seem more concerned about getting rid of the LTN rather than dealing with any issues. It also seems odd that you only joined here shortly after this LTN was introduced and only post in this thread.
Bus Stopped
Active Member
This is typical of the debate around this. I’ve been totally open that I joined the forums to discuss the LTN. I am on other forums and already spend too much time on them. I won’t be posting on u75 apart from this thread.
I suggested adjusting part of the LTN for rush hours (and not the side roads). I have also said I supported the other LTNs. But this apparently is not good enough and should be met with suspicion. Ironically I’ve also been attacked by the pro LTN lot.
My views can’t possibly be because my issue with buses. I just be lumped in with the 70% of families with children who have cars and told I’m selfish. A lot of people being treated with suspicion and castigated. Great way to win people over.
And actually I get it about not wanting to give ground to the anti green right wing lobby. But the way this LTN has been handled actually helps that mob.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
I don’t know if it will or not. But you have no way of knowing that it won’t. The difference in traffic volumes between school holidays and not isn’t huge, but it’s enough to make the whole road network feel completely different.
Bus Stopped
Active Member
To be fair you’re right. Give it a go for a month. If it works then great.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
This appears to use Lambeth’s work as its case study. I can’t find anything that sets out the scores but Wells scores highest in the borough.
4. Low traffic neighbourhood prioritisation
This part walks through how to prioritise your low traffic neighbourhoods based on where the approach will have the greatest impact, rather than where it will be easiest.
www.sustrans.org.uk
As per my post above, there is clearly a need for safe cycling in the area to meet Lambeth’s transport strategy objectives, and those that TfL passes down to them. How else if not valley road?
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
Reopen valley road to cars but put in proper cycle lanes. Sorted.This appears to use Lambeth’s work as its case study. I can’t find anything that sets out the scores but Wells scores highest in the borough.
4. Low traffic neighbourhood prioritisation
This part walks through how to prioritise your low traffic neighbourhoods based on where the approach will have the greatest impact, rather than where it will be easiest.
As per my post above, there is clearly a need for safe cycling in the area to meet Lambeth’s transport strategy objectives, and those that TfL passes down to them. How else if not valley road?
That would be great but what’s the cost? Also removal of parking will cause a lot of opposition I imagine.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Is there enough width?
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
In at least some of it. And then remove parking on the rest of it
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
That'll be more controversial than the LTN!
sparkybird
ask the bird...
I can't quite see how you'd get space for the bus in both directions and bike lanes in both directions even taking out car parking - unless the bike lanes were very narrow maybe, but that sort of defeats the object....as does a bike lane that stops and starts.
and this is pretty much the reasons for LTNs - really difficult to have cycle lanes on most roads.
Also none of this stops the dangers to pedestrians.
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
Haha well, TFL does it on a lot of their roads and it works well. Can't have an artery road with cars parked on both sides. Mind you there's a massive cycle lane in
I think there is an even stronger case that parking on LCR should be removed but yes, the council is too scared of the backlash.
Not sure it would work anyway because on Selsdon Park road they put cycle lanes on both sides, with no parking, and people just park on the cycle lane. Maybe Lambeth would be more effective at enforcing than Croydon.
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
No bus lane needed, so just one car lane and one smaller cycle lane
Being serious if you did this you’d end up with cars doing 60mph down it, which incidentally is exactly what the hardcore antis want.
Alex
sparkybird
ask the bird...
TBH TfL could start by removing car parking in the bus lanes on the A23, it is a nightmare for buses having to try and push into the traffic, and can't help with bus journey times
.
sparkybird
ask the bird...
But as I pointed out,the road isn't wide enough for a vehicle lane (which has to take a single decker bus too) and any meaningful cycle lanes.
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
It should be if car parking was sacrificed
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Yes-ish. The carriageway at the Northern part (from Leigham Court Road) is 7/8m. Enough for narrow cycle lanes and 2.7m traffic lanes (appropriate width for 20mph traffic). On-street parking would have to be removed. The houses on the West side have large enough front gardens to store their cars, but the North side would be limited to small cars only (Ka, Micra etc.) These would have to be painted lanes for the most part, to allow cars to cross over, deliveries etc. so not great.
The Southern part, past Gleneldon Road is 9-10m wide, so could include some on-street parking/delivery bays. However, quite a few buildings along here have their own off-street parking so instead wwe could fit physically protected cycle lanes of proper width, where appropriate.
EDIT: Ah I forgot about the bus. You'd have a very tight squeeze at the Northern end.
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Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
Is Valley Road the hilly up and down one that comes out by Streatham Common?* When it was open to through traffic it was a classic example of impatient and thus dangerous car driving!
And if car parking was taken away, where would all those cars go??
*this is such a classic example of my map memorising skills
And if car parking was taken away, where would all those cars go??
*this is such a classic example of my map memorising skills
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