Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[Bus Stopped]

On a different note it looks like people have driven down the grass on the common to avoid the traffic jams. What utter bellends, it might take years to grow back properly it’s all churned up.

Mind you the police weren’t great yesterday all parked up on the grass on the south side of the common.

Whatever people’s frustrations that’s just bang out of order.

 

[edcraw]

On a different note it looks like people have driven down the grass on the common to avoid the traffic jams. What utter bellends, it might take years to grow back properly it’s all churned up.

Mind you the police weren’t great yesterday all parked up on the grass on the south side of the common.

Whatever people’s frustrations that’s just bang out of order.

Really highlights how we shouldn’t let all our roads be dominated by selfish car drivers doesn’t it!

 

[Bus Stopped]

Really highlights how we shouldn’t let all our roads be dominated by selfish car drivers doesn’t it!

I agree.

 

[ChrisSouth]

The only one I’ve seen which was worse was on coldharbour lane which they eventually changed as emergency vehicles got stuck.

There has never been an LTN on Coldharbour Lane

 

[Smick]

I would be really interested to know how traffic changed with the implementation of CPZs on the ABC roads prior to LTN implementation.

A lot of traffic comes to Tulse Hill station area and then walks to the station. Take a look at Palace Road on a work day compared to a Saturday or Sunday. It probably remains the same with Gleneldon and Stanthorpe Roads with people walking to Streatham station, in spite of the LTN.

Before the ABC CPZ, the same was happening with people driving there just to walk to Streatham Hill station.

If you can stop that parking, you also stop the drivers coming into the area just to park and will reduce traffic that way.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

pretty sure people used to drive to brixton before the CPZ in sommerleyton and loughb orough road for commuting

 

[Cat Fan]

I would be really interested to know how traffic changed with the implementation of CPZs on the ABC roads prior to LTN implementation.

A lot of traffic comes to Tulse Hill station area and then walks to the station. Take a look at Palace Road on a work day compared to a Saturday or Sunday. It probably remains the same with Gleneldon and Stanthorpe Roads with people walking to Streatham station, in spite of the LTN.

Before the ABC CPZ, the same was happening with people driving there just to walk to Streatham Hill station.

If you can stop that parking, you also stop the drivers coming into the area just to park and will reduce traffic that way.

I've heard anecdotally that people still do it and either pay for parking or just risk the fine.

It's only controlled between 10am and 12.

Very little parking available in the ABC roads near the station still, but loads further up the road once there is a walk involved

 

[Smick]

I've heard anecdotally that people still do it and either pay for parking or just risk the fine.

It's only controlled between 10am and 12.

Very little parking available in the ABC roads near the station still, but loads further up the road once there is a walk involved

That’s a problem with parking by app I guess, you can pay those two hours while you sit in an office in zone 1, as long as you know the location code. It’s probably quite cheap as it only needs two hours.

I hadn’t thought of that before.

If it required a machine printed ticket, and the machine only comes to life during the restriction, then it might cut down on commuters.

Even some form of GPS / location tracking for paying on the app. McDonald’s don’t let you place an order on their app if you aren’t at the location.

 

[Cat Fan]

That’s a problem with parking by app I guess, you can pay those two hours while you sit in an office in zone 1, as long as you know the location code. It’s probably quite cheap as it only needs two hours.

I hadn’t thought of that before.

If it required a machine printed ticket, and the machine only comes to life during the restriction, then it might cut down on commuters.

Even some form of GPS / location tracking for paying on the app. McDonald’s don’t let you place an order on their app if you aren’t at the location.

I think to try and stop people they only let you book up to 1 hour at a time on the app, but there must be a way to get around it

Also the chances of being caught are probably quite low anyway

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

you'd need to check the local parking regulations, it is usually time limited and an app based system "should" be able to tell you that you are not allowed to stay any longer.

The partial time controlled ones are usually residents parking permit only without app or machine for that particular time window, adjacent road often having slightly different restriction times.

 

[edcraw]

This post has caused a bit of a stir. It’s almost as if a lot of those against LTNs just want to drive everywhere all the time with no restrictions!

 

[snowy_again]

Why is that post attracting comments from US bots: https://x.com/tradwife11111?s=11&t=m2v4bz0h_UKO-SiuMrPTew

 

[BusLanes]

Why is that post attracting comments from US bots: https://x.com/tradwife11111?s=11&t=m2v4bz0h_UKO-SiuMrPTew

That account seems rather obsessed by Megan and Kate

 

[edcraw]

Does anyone hear complaints about any of the LTNs that have been in for 3 years now?

It would seem really weird now to open up the Oval one to rat runners and can’t imagine many would be in favour.

 

[BusLanes]

The sound and fury over those earlier ones was huge but yes, seems to have gone away as promised

 

[thebackrow]

The sound and fury over those earlier ones was huge but yes, seems to have gone away as promised

And there seems to have been next to no noise about the Brixton Hill LTN which must have been in a couple of months now.

 

[sparkybird]

And there seems to have been next to no noise about the Brixton Hill LTN which must have been in a couple of months now.

I suspect that the number of drivers using the Brixton Hill LTN as a cut through was much lower than in Streatham Wells. Pre LTN up to 10,000 vehicles/day on Valley Road for example. That's a lot of pissed off drivers

 

[Agent Sparrow]

And there seems to have been next to no noise about the Brixton Hill LTN which must have been in a couple of months now.

I suspect that the number of drivers using the Brixton Hill LTN as a cut through was much lower than in Streatham Wells. Pre LTN up to 10,000 vehicles/day on Valley Road for example. That's a lot of pissed off drivers

New Park Road is also still an official through road, despite having a school on it. And the driving on it has got less considerate imo

 

[sparkybird]

New Park Road is also still an official through road, despite having a school on it. And the driving on it has got less considerate imo

I don't get why it wasn't included. It is one of the worst cut throughs. And those chicanes are quite frankly dangerous

 

[Agent Sparrow]

I don't get why it wasn't included. It is one of the worst cut throughs. And those chicanes are quite frankly dangerous

Tfl apparently.

 

[edcraw]

Tfl apparently.

Yes - TfL apparently were concerned about the amount of traffic that would need to turn right on to the Sth Circular from Brixton Hill if it was closed. They’re probably right & a reconfiguration of that junction would be v costly. Hopefully one for the future.

 

[edcraw]

I don't get why it wasn't included. It is one of the worst cut throughs. And those chicanes are quite frankly dangerous

The chicanes just highlight how ineffective measures that don’t actually stop rat running are. They’ve been completely pointless and probably cost more than the whole Brixton Hill LTN.

 

[Bus Stopped]

This post has caused a bit of a stir. It’s almost as if a lot of those against LTNs just want to drive everywhere all the time with no restrictions!

What’s this got to do with the LTN? Does the LTN stop single use cars? Of course not. The issue is whether the latest LTN has caused unacceptable traffic jams, which are bad for buses and those who live on those roads. I suspect the next 2-3 weeks will be better over Christmas and the school holidays and then we will see what it goes back to in January. But there’s no point denying there have been big problems (that previous LTNs haven’t caused), it’s whether those problems dissipate.

Cars are, on average, not used 90% of the time. Many (most?) are also single use. There is no need for private ownership of cars, the state could have a mass zip car operation that would massively cut the amounts of cars. Although not sure this would help with the issues around commutes.

 

[edcraw]

What’s this got to do with the LTN? Does the LTN stop single use cars? Of course not. The issue is whether the latest LTN has caused unacceptable traffic jams, which are bad for buses and those who live on those roads. I suspect the next 2-3 weeks will be better over Christmas and the school holidays and then we will see what it goes back to in January. But there’s no point denying there have been big problems (that previous LTNs haven’t caused), it’s whether those problems dissipate.

Cars are, on average, not used 90% of the time. Many (most?) are also single use. There is no need for private ownership of cars, the state could have a mass zip car operation that would massively cut the amounts of cars. Although not sure this would help with the issues around commutes.

It has to do what’s holding up buses - one person driving around with an empty arm chair & sofa is obviously problematic.

LTNs don’t exist in a vacuum so thinm it would be useful for this thread to take an holistic and it’s important to always remember the words our glorious ex leader Boris said:

"Of course some journeys by car are essential, but traffic is not a force of nature. It is a product of people’s choices. If you make it easier and safer to walk and cycle, more people choose to walk and cycle instead of driving, and the traffic falls overall."

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Yes - TfL apparently were concerned about the amount of traffic that would need to turn right on to the Sth Circular from Brixton Hill if it was closed. They’re probably right & a reconfiguration of that junction would be v costly. Hopefully one for the future.

NPR is allegedly going to be made a school road next year. But I’m not sure if the other roads stated in an earlier part of the plan have been made school roads yet.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

The chicanes just highlight how ineffective measures that don’t actually stop rat running are. They’ve been completely pointless and probably cost more than the whole Brixton Hill LTN.

And they’re actively dangerous. Cars don’t slow down for them, some drive over the pavement, and peds can get a false sense of security about cars giving way.

Also a van driver intimidated me with verbal abuse round that area for “daring” to cycle with my 9 year old child, at the end of the school day Never heard back from the councillor I contacted about it either (argument being that NPR being a through road contributes to stuff like this).

 

[Smick]

New Park Road is also still an official through road, despite having a school on it. And the driving on it has got less considerate imo

I think it is now the only way to access Dumbarton, Felsberg and Dovefield, whereas previously you could have got onto Dumbarton directly and accessed the other two from Dumbarton.

Yes - TfL apparently were concerned about the amount of traffic that would need to turn right on to the Sth Circular from Brixton Hill if it was closed. They’re probably right & a reconfiguration of that junction would be v costly. Hopefully one for the future.

That whole junction appears to be a mess in my eyes. There is one phase where eastbound traffic turning right is the only traffic moving. Yet when westbound traffic turns right, it can do it as part of the normal flow. And when traffic pointing south wants to turn left, the light on Brixton Hill is green but the immediate pedestrian crossing is always red. I have seen people drive straight through that, thinking it is a stop light for those queued up outside McDonalds.

I am sure there is logic to all of it, someone more intelligent than me likely designed it, but I just can't see that logic.

 

[Cat Fan]

I am sure there is logic to all of it, someone more intelligent than me likely designed it, but I just can't see that logic.

More likely this stuff was designed ages ago and is long overdue an update.

My favourite weird junction is Leigham Court Road/ Sternhold Avenue / A23.

For some reason there is no right turn from LCR to A23 except for buses, so everyone wanting to turn right has to drive round an unofficial gyratory and queue up for the very short green signal on Sternhold Avenue, mingled with natural traffic coming from that direction.

Traffic is permanently tailed back on Sternhold Avenue because the phase is too short.

LTNs mean much more traffic going round this weird system than before. TFL should review this stuff post implementation.

 

[edcraw]

I think it is now the only way to access Dumbarton, Felsberg and Dovefield, whereas previously you could have got onto Dumbarton directly and accessed the other two from Dumbarton.

I don’t think that’s much of an issue as that top part of NPR isn’t much of a problem and having Dumbarton Rd shut at Brixton Hill makes it much better for pedestrians there.

 

[Smick]

More likely this stuff was designed ages ago and is long overdue an update.

My favourite weird junction is Leigham Court Road/ Sternhold Avenue / A23.

For some reason there is no right turn from LCR to A23 except for buses, so everyone wanting to turn right has to drive round an unofficial gyratory and queue up for the very short green signal on Sternhold Avenue, mingled with natural traffic coming from that direction.

Traffic is permanently tailed back on Sternhold Avenue because the phase is too short.

LTNs mean much more traffic going round this weird system than before. TFL should review this stuff post implementation.

It should be sorted out pre-implementation.

I don't want to keep banging the same drum, but there seems to have been no discussions by Lambeth and TfL about buses prior to the implementation of the LTN. At this time of year especially, the main way to get people out of cars is to provide, or improve, public transport which mirror those car journeys you look to impact. And do so prior to implementation.

It seems that Lambeth have hoped that cycling will take up a lot of the slack, but they should launch LTNs in May if that is their wish.