Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[BusLanes]

Well the worst pinch point used to be the narrow stretch down from St Leonards but aside from that I don't really recall it being a problem.

I used to take the bus 4-5 times a week to Brixton and the journey was usually fine till the bus lanes stopped somewhere around Norbury.

 

[lang rabbie]

I just had a quick look to see what google maps was saying about congestion in the streatham area this morning. It looks less bad than when I looked a couple of times last week.

I happened to notice that currently some of the worst congestion in south london is here

View attachment 400780

where there are extended stretches of dual carriageway road and acres of car-serviced retail parks.

It's almost as if providing extra road capacity creates more traffic rather than relieving it.

TfL are digging up Purley Way on the single carriageway stretch just north of the "Croydon Aerodrome"/"Purley Way Lido" junction. https://one.network/?GB136483897

 

[Crispy]

the worst pinch point used to be the narrow stretch down from St Leonards

It is maddening that this road, which is wide enough for cars, buses, bikes and pedestrians for 95% of its length, has such ridiculous bottlenecks. From 29m at the Odeon down to 16.5m at the White Horse and 15.5m at the Green then back out to 30m past the common. No way to fix it without wholesale demolition of a ~600m stretch of Victorian retail.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Remember only a handful of councils put in LTNs.

 

[Bus Stopped]

Took the bus up to Streatham Hill station this morning and there no delays waiting in traffic. Whilst that stopped short of Leigham Court Road I would have thought that means traffic not backed up too badly if at all.

It’s improved a bit for buses. The commute for cars looks hell. Can currently see car jams all the way down streatham high street. Leigham Court Road still bad too. The pollution for people living on the high street, which was already terrible, must have got even worse.

At least the buses have improved a bit though. The main problem is after the cinema when the bus lanes stop for a stretch. It grinds to a halt there.

I also noticed displaced traffic is going further afield. Greyhound Lane in rush hour is now terrible.

 

[Bus Stopped]

Having said it’s got better i’m now stationary on the bus just before the cinema. All ground to a halt again

 

[edcraw]

Maybe Streatham Wells LTN has unique issues but surely people should be excused for not believing every horror story being told as lots are coming from the same people that have opposed every LTN, every cycle lane, every 24hr bus lane and every other measure that tries to manage the very real harm motor vehicles bring to our city.

 

[thebackrow]

So an anti-LTN group had an anti-LTN meeting at a church in Ferndale the other night and decided they were opposed to LTNs.

With, of course, the seemingly obligatory shouting and disruption of the meeting - from a former LibDem councillor from Streatham amongst others. And misrepresentation of the MPs contributions, which of course they haven't corrected.

 

[BusLanes]

Will be interesting to see how that ltn impacts the next local elections there in 2026. I don't recall the results for whatever the wards are now but presumably Labour won a landslide of votes all the same

 

[sparkybird]

So an anti-LTN group had an anti-LTN meeting at a church in Ferndale the other night and decided they were opposed to LTNs.

With, of course, the seemingly obligatory shouting and disruption of the meeting - from a former LibDem councillor from Streatham amongst others. And misrepresentation of the MPs contributions, which of course they haven't corrected.

The meeting was to discuss issues in Ferndale Ward and was gatecrashed by anti LTNers from outside the ward. One prominent one was posting in a Streatham group encouraging people to attend
The fact that they can't even be civil speaks volumes.

 

[thebackrow]

I think this guy is in Ferndale, but it seemed to be welcoming Lambeth citizens (presumably they're from Tooting) AND residents.

 

[Bus Stopped]

I know you’ve all eagerly been awaiting an update on my bus journeys.

I tried the 417 for the first time since the huge traffic jams started. Definitely an improvement but still not great. At 8.15 it took 30 minutes to drive down Leigham Court Road. Used to take 10-15 minutes. But still, an improvement.

 

[teuchter]

I know you’ve all eagerly been awaiting an update on my bus journeys.

I tried the 417 for the first time since the huge traffic jams started. Definitely an improvement but still not great. At 8.15 it took 30 minutes to drive down Leigham Court Road. Used to take 10-15 minutes. But still, an improvement.

I'd guess that I might not be the only person waiting to see if you are a anti LTN person pretending to be a bus user, for which the giveaway would be if you stopped posting after things settle down and bus journeys get back to something like normal.

 

[Bus Stopped]

I'd guess that I might not be the only person waiting to see if you are a anti LTN person pretending to be a bus user, for which the giveaway would be if you stopped posting after things settle down and bus journeys get back to something like normal.

Ha! Fair enough. But honestly I’m not for or against. My general view is they are a bit of a sticking plaster and we need far more radical answers. And I’m not convinced they are always positive. But if things improve to 15-20 minutes I’ll be ok with it lol

 

[edcraw]

Ha! Fair enough. But honestly I’m not for or against. My general view is they are a bit of a sticking plaster and we need far more radical answers. And I’m not convinced they are always positive. But if things improve to 15-20 minutes I’ll be ok with it lol

Welcome to the war on cars!!

 

[edcraw]

There’s a new Lambeth anti-LTN organisation raising money. Looking for £5k for leaflets & flyers. The Tulse Hill LTN was leafleted a couple of times in support for a few hundred quid so that seems kind of high.

Donate to Lambeth LTN Watch, organized by LTNWatch Team

Lambeth LTN Watch is a local apolitical community group to campaign against Low Traffic Neighbourhoods… LTNWatch Team needs your support for Lambeth LTN Watch

www.gofundme.com

 

[Bus Stopped]

Awful again today traffic all the way up Streatham north. Urgh.

Spoke to guy on the high street who lives in Mitcham and it’s currently adding 35 minute to his commute every day.

I’m now back in fuming mode lol

 

[BusLanes]

There’s a new Lambeth anti-LTN organisation raising money. Looking for £5k for leaflets & flyers. The Tulse Hill LTN was leafleted a couple of times in support for a few hundred quid so that seems kind of high.

Donate to Lambeth LTN Watch, organized by LTNWatch Team

Lambeth LTN Watch is a local apolitical community group to campaign against Low Traffic Neighbourhoods… LTNWatch Team needs your support for Lambeth LTN Watch

www.gofundme.com

That is a lot of leaflets for one place. Although not for a whole borough. They do say they could spend it on other campaign activities tho

 

[alex_]

That is a lot of leaflets for one place. Although not for a whole borough. They do say they could spend it on other campaign activities tho

Other activities like grift ?

 

[BusLanes]

Other activities like grift ?

Well so long as they avoid judicial review

 

[Bus Stopped]

More commuting hell both morning and now (currently stuck on bus in Streatham high street).

Are they really gonna give this 18 months? Surely satnavs have adjusted by now and it’s still not working.

 

[alex_]

More commuting hell both morning and now (currently stuck on bus in Streatham high street).

Are they really gonna give this 18 months? Surely satnavs have adjusted by now and it’s still not working.

It took two months in Brixton hill for satnavs to adjust.

 

[Bus Stopped]

It took two months in Brixton hill for satnavs to adjust.

Fair enough. Got to be honest as well, after I posted it got not too bad.

 

[PlasT]

Where are the adjusted sat navs sending people though? I assume creating new rat runs isn’t the desired goal

 

[Agent Sparrow]

I was recently speaking to someone who I really like and respect, but who has very different views about driving in London. It made me realise that there’s a group of zone 3 and beyond Londoners who would never dream of getting the bus, wouldn’t consider the train as an option, and would only really use the tube to get into central London. As someone who has never driven I find it a bit baffling, but it also makes some of the LTN opposition more understandable. It’s almost like public transport options do not compute.

Issue is, how is that changeable?

 

[teuchter]

I think you always have to try and understand the opposition as the product of a very deeply enculcurated attachment to the private car and the freedom people think it gives them. That's how I reconcile it, in people that I know & like and who also think my views on transport are nuts.

It's only changeable through a lot of hard work and persistance in the face of constant bad faith arguments but many people do listen and they often get it once you can actually show them a place that's been freed from the dominance of private motor vehicles.

 

[Bus Stopped]

Where are the adjusted sat navs sending people though? I assume creating new rat runs isn’t the desired goal

In streatham it’s created lots of new rat runs. One seems to be Hopton Road and others are lots of streets going towards Norbury and Mitcham. There is also just a lot more traffic jams on the main roads. I can’t see how that will change as people are so wedded to their cars. It just pushes the problems around.

Ultimately there needs to be a way of reducing car use. Better and cheaper public transport is one option. At the moment it’s good if you want to go in and out of central London but pretty crap for going between outer London boroughs. Also we somehow, in my view, have to make cars a shared resource.

 

[sparkybird]

In streatham it’s created lots of new rat runs. One seems to be Hopton Road and others are lots of streets going towards Norbury and Mitcham. There is also just a lot more traffic jams on the main roads. I can’t see how that will change as people are so wedded to their cars. It just pushes the problems around.

Ultimately there needs to be a way of reducing car use. Better and cheaper public transport is one option. At the moment it’s good if you want to go in and out of central London but pretty crap for going between outer London boroughs. Also we somehow, in my view, have to make cars a shared resource.

I think the hopton road problem will be fixed. There was originally planned to be a filter there but the council didn't put it in, although they did do the traffic orders, so it's ready to go. I'm not sure why they are waiting TBH.
I also wondered about the Brits relationships with cars, being their own personal space. BlaBla car, a car sharing app is huge in Europe, but has never taken off in the UK. I often wonder why.

 

[PlasT]

Car sharing apps are used primarily for longer intercity journeys though arent they? Sort of a modern day form of hitchhiking.

In a fantasy land I’d like to see trams connecting Brixton and Croydon up the A23. More trams everywhere across South London.

Or a Victoria line extension but that’s even more unlikely.

 

[teuchter]

Better and cheaper public transport is one option. At the moment it’s good if you want to go in and out of central London but pretty crap for going between outer London boroughs.

Better public transport is always a good thing of course. If we're talking about zone 3/4 london though, complaining that the existing public transport is so bad that you need a car is mostly nonsense. Someone can point out that some cross-town journey that takes the 45 minutes in their car takes an hour by public transport. Well, in most cases you can't magically change that. Yes, you can potentially get there faster in your car but it's at everyone else's expense. The main thing that slows buses down is congestion - created by private motorists. Improving public transport means getting cars off the road and making the alternatives less attractive or convenient. You can't have your cake & eat it.