Exactly. It makes a big difference to the local residents who have blue badges but doesn't add much traffic to the LTNs. That's what makes Lambeth's policy all the more mean.
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
I’d say disability parking spaces only is a good option for a lot of places.
Edit: oh, I think I wrote this a while ago and forgot it was there. Seems like I’m dredging up a subject we’ve moved on from, so sorry!
Has Sat nav caught up? I remember once being driven by a colleague on the outskirts of London and it kept trying to send us down an old road that was now a very open supermarket.
It depends upon which ones you use - ones like Waze and Google maps are pretty good
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
It says a lot about how people drive now that one or more filters on my LTN were left open and unsignposted for a period of time before it was finalised and yet still barely any cars drove through.
The problem was the sat nav routing all along, which it seems this new EU regulation (mentioned earlier on this thread) is designed to help with.
As a bit of anecdata I drive through Selsdon sometimes to get to my parents who live in Surrey. Google Maps always wants me to skip the high street by rat running through a road called Sundale Avenue. I always ignore it and stick to the main road on principle.
Anyway good luck fixing that one because Croydon council is mega bankrupt.
The problem was the sat nav routing all along, which it seems this new EU regulation (mentioned earlier on this thread) is designed to help with.
As a bit of anecdata I drive through Selsdon sometimes to get to my parents who live in Surrey. Google Maps always wants me to skip the high street by rat running through a road called Sundale Avenue. I always ignore it and stick to the main road on principle.
Anyway good luck fixing that one because Croydon council is mega bankrupt.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
It's not about volume in the LTN, it's about volume through the filter. Having vehicles driving through changes how it can be designed and confuses other motorists who will follow a vehicle going through thinking 'if they can do it it must be OK' so compliance gets worse. Look at how drivers behaved before the cameras went in, or when they were vandalised and you see how much most drivers will misbehave if they think they can get away with it. Hell, look at how many drivers brake before a speed camera - they all know they’re breaking the speed limit.
The OneDulwich list of who they want to be exempt has got ever longer - Emergency Services, SEND vehicles, Blue Badge, GPs, NHS workers and then the wide reaching "Carers" and 'visitors to elderly people'.
Not all drivers just follow or go through or vandalise, this is as much crap as the other side sprout and shouldn't be used to deny reasonable adjustments for those that struggle to use other modes of transport. We don't design based on a rouge minority, that's the lowest common denominator. Let's not give benefits to those in need because a few might committ benefit fraud type thinking.
And don't OneDulwich me because once again you are conflating the needs of the disabled with some crazy group. Although of course emergency services, SEND communal transport and Blue Badges should go through.
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thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Ffs “That’s as much crap as the other side spout” -I didn’t say they did / But it’s enough to be an issue.
Maybe we should design to the rogue minority- e bikes are limited on both speed and power. Why don’t we do the same with Cars? A city car doesn’t need to go over 20mph. It doesn’t need to accelerate quickly. And if it didn’t need to do those things it could be smaller, lighter and less environmental impact.
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People commit crimes for all sorts of things everywhere, we don't stop doing those things because of a small minority. Put cameras up and penalise them rather than making the vulnerable pay the price.
Most London legal speeds are 20 and the majority of people follow them. You're misunderstanding your own point.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
If it's a majority it's a pretty slim majority.
Stats?
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
These are the most recent I've got to hand.
Which show 81% of cars and 92% of motorbikes speeding in 20mph streets in free flowing traffic - ie when they're not being held up by other vehicles/congestion.
Huge number of motorcyclists not just a little over the limit either - massively over it.
edit - here's the 2021 figures but not in graphical form.
53% of cars and 69% of motorcyclists exceeding speed limit by 5mph or more.
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Rushy
basically a scrotum
Does anyone know whether the parking suspension outside St Matthews tenants hall is LTN related? Says a month and a day of resurfacing and it's limited to the exact area that was consulted on last May. Not heard a peep since. Their proposal was to extend the single gate to a double with a pedestrian area in between.
Doesn't change my original point, why must the disabled suffer for people who can't keep to the speed limit?
I keep to the speed limit. And am massively in favour of the enforcement and extension of 20mph speed limits.
This is piss poor
South London council blocked from fining speeding drivers as government steps in
The government has asked the DVLA to stop sharing details of drivers caught speeding
www.mylondon.news
The DoT has told the DVLA to stop sharing speeding motorists contact details with Wandsworth council.
From somewhere else
“Wandsworth Council’s cabinet member for transport, Clare Fraser, said: 'We welcome recognition of the clear safety benefits for our local communities that we are seeking to achieve through this speed enforcement trial.
'In just 52 days of monitoring, the two roads chosen for this trial had shown alarming rates of speeding - a staggering 56,955 violations were recorded where drivers disregarded the 20mph limit and were travelling over 24mph. This is unacceptable”
57k x 130 gbp fine = 7.4 mil in fines….
Scale that up over the year it be 52 mil - that’s a quarter of Wandsworth councils budget (217m gbp )
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I don't approve of speeding and feel it should be dealt with harshly.This is piss poor
South London council blocked from fining speeding drivers as government steps in
The government has asked the DVLA to stop sharing details of drivers caught speedingwww.mylondon.news
The DoT has told the DVLA to stop sharing speeding motorists contact details with Wandsworth council.
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
Interesting that they only got fined for being a full 4mph above the limit and yet still there were tens of thousands of violations.This is piss poor
South London council blocked from fining speeding drivers as government steps in
The government has asked the DVLA to stop sharing details of drivers caught speedingwww.mylondon.news
The DoT has told the DVLA to stop sharing speeding motorists contact details with Wandsworth council.
From somewhere else
“Wandsworth Council’s cabinet member for transport, Clare Fraser, said: 'We welcome recognition of the clear safety benefits for our local communities that we are seeking to achieve through this speed enforcement trial.
'In just 52 days of monitoring, the two roads chosen for this trial had shown alarming rates of speeding - a staggering 56,955 violations were recorded where drivers disregarded the 20mph limit and were travelling over 24mph. This is unacceptable”
57k x 130 gbp fine = 7.4 mil in fines….
Scale that up over the year it be 52 mil - that’s a quarter of Wandsworth councils budget (217m gbp )
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
must be - all the other stuff that was designed at the same time has started and St Matthews is in the report on here - Designing a permanent scheme has an re
I don’t think they got as far as actually fining them, I think they were at the shitty letters stage.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
We ALL suffer the effects of the MAJORITY of people who can't keep to the speed limit.
As much as you're trying to paint me as some OnePetrolHead, that's not me so keep talking round the point. The point is that where there is a vulnerable group who cannot walk, cycle or get public transport and who are already massively disadvantaged in regards to access to their community and wider society, further barriers isolate and disadvantage these groups more.
So stop talking shit to me and just give your actual opinion which is that you don't think that disabled people should be given access to LTNs because you either don't understand or don't care to undestand the nature of disadvantage that significant disability brings.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Do you think blue badge holders should be able to ignore speed limits?
Now you're just making shit up. I have never said that. In fact I have said I am strongly in favour of strict speed limits for everyone that are harshly enforced. Stop making things up that I never said.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
I didn’t suggest you’d said it. I just asked your view.
If time and convenience is so critical shouldn’t you be allowed to ignore speed limits (like the emergency services) as well as LTN filters?
No.
You're just trolling me.
The use of the word convenience once again shows your lack of understanding of the issues.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
What would be a better word than convenience? An LTN doesn’t prevent access to any address, it just mean some journeys may be longer. If a slightly longer journey is an issue shouldn’t you be slowed to speed - no one else would copy you, I’m sure, they’d know the speed limits applied to them but not you.
If you'd like to read back in this thread, I have given some real life and practical examples of why shorter journeys are needed; feel free to find them and read as probably you've never had to consider any of them - lucky you.
There is also a huge psychological barrier to going out as a disabled person/family because it is so hard and each new obstacle, because there are so many, adds a deterrant and leads to the isolation these people and families experience.
I actually find it upsetting when this thread turns to such ableism. You obviously consider yourself an intelligent person yet you seem proud of your willful ignorance around disability.
Speeding kills, allowing access to LTNs does not, they are not comparable.
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I don’t have an issue with this and think blue badge holders should have a generous but limited exemptions - eg all ltn gates within a mile of their house.
Issues you are going to have in practice that your borough can only influence LTNs within your borough - if you live on a borough boundary - they can exempt you from your local Lambeth ltn but not the one over the road in Southwark.
In practice after people with local exceptions get a few tickets from “the wrong LTNs” will just use sat nav to avoid LTNs like everyone else.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Can anyone explain the approval procedure / process that was required to get to the point of agreeing to change the St Matthews Road LTN intervention from a single gate to a landscaped pedestrian area of (very approx) 80m with gates at either end? It seems to have gone totally over my head.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
Isn’t the public engagement process set out in the doc on the page I linked to?
Approval procedure, I’m guessing, will be an internal process within the council involving the transport team and whichever cabinet member is responsible (Cabinet Member for Sustainable Lambeth and Clean Air covers transport I think). Unless it’s delegated to the officers. Same as any other street scheme.
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Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
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