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Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

Maybe a concession could be granted for all londoners. In the interests of ultimate fairness and concern for local businesses.
One resident Caroline Brooman-White said: "I am very concerned for the local businesses in south Fulham."
She asked: "Would it be possible to allow residents in the neighbouring boroughs of Wandsworth and Kensington and Chelsea to travel freely on our roads in Hammersmith and Fulham without paying fines for going through the traffic cameras?"
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thebackrow said:
Sounds like a plan for the whole borough so get behind it and encourage them to roll it out quickly.

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I think the problem with rolling it out quickly is... money.

I can't quite imagine what the main roads would be like if this was implemented - grid lock I assume. Though a lot of it is external traffic - something like over 40% households don't have access to a car.

They're stating another one 1st November - Bruce Grove.. i'm just waiting for the day there's a traffic jam in my road.
 
Hollis said:
I think the problem with rolling it out quickly is... money.

I can't quite imagine what the main roads would be like if this was implemented - grid lock I assume. Though a lot of it is external traffic - something like over 40% households don't have access to a car.
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Money and staff resource I'd have thought. But 'we can't do it all at once' seems a very bad reason to do nothing.

As for 'gridlock' - probably not. A lot of rat running traffic is going to be rejoining a major road anyway, and turning traffic causes delays (and collisions, which results in really big delays) so after some initial disruption it will almost certainly settle down.
 
sparkybird said:
Of what relevance is this to traffic reduction schemes? There is already a dedicated thread for this tragic incident, would it not be more appropriate there?
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People on here previously pointed out that crime could be an issue with LTNs. I think there are several issues actually (as a non-driver)
1. How did the shooters access this LTN in a car - were they making a delivery or visiting friends?
2. We have heard that ambulances etc are impeded in coming to LTNs. Was this the case here? Did anyone die because the ambulance was late?

I know the thread is for true believers - but can one not raise questions?
 
CH1 said:
People on here previously pointed out that crime could be an issue with LTNs. I think there are several issues actually (as a non-driver)
1. How did the shooters access this LTN in a car - were they making a delivery or visiting friends?
2. We have heard that ambulances etc are impeded in coming to LTNs. Was this the case here? Did anyone die because the ambulance was late?

I know the thread is for true believers - but can one not raise questions?
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Oh do fuck off.
 
CH1 said:
People on here previously pointed out that crime could be an issue with LTNs. I think there are several issues actually (as a non-driver)
1. How did the shooters access this LTN in a car - were they making a delivery or visiting friends?
2. We have heard that ambulances etc are impeded in coming to LTNs. Was this the case here? Did anyone die because the ambulance was late?

I know the thread is for true believers - but can one not raise questions?
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1. Why does it matter and of what possible relevance is it to anything?
2. Have you not been along Railton road in the past two years? It's completely open to ambulances at both ends, just like it's completely open to the 322 bus, and most likely the ambulance could make its way along the road much faster than had it been full of traffic.
 
teuchter said:
1. Why does it matter and of what possible relevance is it to anything?
2. Have you not been along Railton road in the past two years? It's completely open to ambulances at both ends, just like it's completely open to the 322 bus, and most likely the ambulance could make its way along the road much faster than had it been full of traffic.
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Thank you for a rational response answering one of the points.
 
And on your other point everywhere in an LTN is accessible to anyone by car. Have you really been contributing to these discussions for this long without understanding anything about what’s actually been implemented?

Amazing things LTNs. Simultaneously both privatised roads and gentrified white middle class newbie enclaves whist being magnets for crime and antisocial behaviour.
 
CH1 said:
People on here previously pointed out that crime could be an issue with LTNs. I think there are several issues actually (as a non-driver)
1. How did the shooters access this LTN in a car - were they making a delivery or visiting friends?
2. We have heard that ambulances etc are impeded in coming to LTNs. Was this the case here? Did anyone die because the ambulance was late?

I know the thread is for true believers - but can one not raise questions?
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I guess you're not aware but drivers can access anywhere within an LTN. You don't have to be visiting friends or making a delivery.
The filters that are enforced by cameras are there so that emergency vehicles can pass through.
I'm really unsure why you are speculating all this.
 
sparkybird said:
I guess you're not aware but drivers can access anywhere within an LTN. You don't have to be visiting friends or making a delivery.
The filters that are enforced by cameras are there so that emergency vehicles can pass through.
I'm really unsure why you are speculating all this.
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Actually it would be nice to know if the cameras can pick up people and faces. I mean then they could help solve real crime. Rather than money-making civil infractions.

I bet there aren't cameras on Railton Road near Barnwell Road though. It's right in the middle of the LTN.
 
Funnily enough as a Railton resident, I can tell you pre-LTN, road traffic accidents, which also happened here (moped vs car by the look of the crash scene), were common. I think I previously posted on urban about a car barrel rolling one Saturday morning landing outside my front garden wall caused by some fool who’d borrowed his mate’s car and fancied a bit of driving but lost control. Three of my neighbours have had cars written off by other drivers doing something similar. Since Railton went into an LTN, this is the first time this has happened and I think it looks pretty clear that the crash part was only a bit part to the violence that followed.
 
CH1 said:
Actually it would be nice to know if the cameras can pick up people and faces. I mean then they could help solve real crime. Rather than money-making civil infractions.

I bet there aren't cameras on Railton Road near Barnwell Road though. It's right in the middle of the LTN.
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The cameras are for Automatic Number Plate Recognition - I'm not an expert, but I guess that's all done by software and only captures the numberplate. It is against to law to ignore road traffic signs - if people don't want to pay the fines, then they could just obey the signs and not drive thought the filters. That would stop the 'money making' real quick.
There are of course plenty of monitored CCTV cameras around used to gather info in cases of other types of crimes.
 
teuchter said:
1. Why does it matter and of what possible relevance is it to anything?
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It’s highly relavent, I’m pretty sure gangsters on their way to whack someone are highly likely to be driving a car registered to their home address, and therefore have to be 100% au-fait with traffic regulations.

Alex
 
Someone's done a LTN film feat. Railton Road (as an LTN) première at Morley College on November 16th
 
New research from Imperial College London finds
  • LTNS reduce air pollution within and around intervention areas
  • traffic volumes reduced both internally AND at boundary sites.



Islington found Air Quality improving on boundary roads too.


Now some of this may down to ULEZ (which of course many tories and many of the anti-LTN bunch are also against), some due to buses being replaced with cleaner models but it does put another unevicendce onesie complaint in the bin. (though I've seen some tortured logic along the lines of 'it would have improved more if it hadn't been for the LTNs).
 
Is it a bit ungenerous to acknowledge that "some of this may be down to ULEZ" and busses?

I'm no statistician but the graph seems to imply that almost all of the improvement is in the period to 2020 (ULEZ and busses) and improves consistently and quickly across the borough. From 2020 onwards (when LTNs were installed) NO2 levels continued to decline in 2no. LTNs but at a much reduced rate, plateaued in 1no. and saw increased in 2no. LTNs - one by about 10% - whilst the wider borough without LTNs plateaued.

But the Tweeters seem terribly excited, so have I misread it?
 
Rushy said:
Is it a bit ungenerous to acknowledge that "some of this may be down to ULEZ" and busses?

I'm no statistician but the graph seems to imply that almost all of the improvement is in the period to 2020 (ULEZ and busses) and improves consistently and quickly across the borough. From 2020 onwards (when LTNs were installed) NO2 levels continued to decline in 2no. LTNs but at a much reduced rate, plateaued in 1no. and saw increased in 2no. LTNs - one by about 10% - whilst the wider borough without LTNs plateaued.

But the Tweeters seem terribly excited, so have I misread it?
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It's being retweeted like its the 5th gospel. I'm particularly interested in what it defines as the boundary area - i.e. within 500m - as the traffic displacement can be much broader than that.

Like any academic article it needs to be treated with a healthy degree of sceptism: unfortunately that is unlikely in the hyper-charged world of the LTN debate.
 
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edcraw said:
Another failed anti-LTN court case in Enfield. I wonder how much the lawyers made this time?

Sophia Bouchti v London Borough of Enfield - Find case law - The National Archives

caselaw.nationalarchives.gov.uk caselaw.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Looks like £43k here - STOP the LTN's - Fox Lane & Enfield, organized by One Community
1.5k here - Help raise £2500 to avoid Enfield LTNs being made permanent (due Autumn 2021) by engaging ALL local residents, workers & students. Please HELP US to Help YOU :)
2.6k here - Help raise £5000 to Stop Enfield LTNs - fundraise for resources to reach the full community, loudly communicating our views to Undemocratic Council Leaders.

That's c48 if my quick google brought them all up and it looks like their claimant was someone running a dog walking business who spends her days driving peoples dogs to the park and back.
 
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