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Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

teuchter said:
Possibly if there is sufficient resistance to anything that records your driving habits, location etc.

I know that there are already insurance options with "black box" recorders. So obviously some people are OK with it, but I wonder how long it will take for it to be accepted as standard?

There is of course still the problem of cars that simply aren't insured at all and my impression is that they are well represented amongst south london's worst and most dangerous drivers.
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It’ll just take for territories to mandate them - EU Requires Event Data Recorders in Automobiles
 
That says it’s a 13 period rolling average. Doesn’t that mean the “latest” figure is the average of that last 13 months? So gives no real idea of current keels
Rushy said:
Sure. But LTNs are similarly vulnerable to unregistered vehicles, fake number plates, simple covering of plates, etc.. I'm only guessing but presume that this tends not be the done thing amongst our more upstanding drivers. Yet this imperfection has not prevented LTNs from making a worthwhile impact, so I'm led to believe.
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only if they’re camera enforced. If you just have bollards, as done widely elsewhere, those problems go away.
 
Interesting change in LTN approach in Hammersmith and Fulham. Borough residents are exempt.

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nitter.it nitter.it

Apparently trials have still resulted in significant falls in traffic.

This approach is interesting as sat navs will have to route around these as they won’t know you have an exclusion.

Also there will be lots of places where people from the other side of the borough are exempt - but people across the road ( in a different borough ) are not exempt.

This is potentially quite a good way of killing local opposition and if it results in routes being removed from satnavs, reducing a lot of traffic
 
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alex_ said:
Interesting change in LTN approach in Hammersmith and Fulham. Borough residents are exempt.

(@)

This Tweet is from an account that no longer exists.
nitter.it nitter.it

Apparently trials have still resulted in significant falls in traffic.

This approach is interesting as sat navs will have to route around these as they won’t know you have an exclusion.

Also there will be lots of places where people from the other side of the borough are exempt - but people across the road ( in a different borough ) are not exempt.

This is potentially quite a good way of killing local opposition and if it results in routes being removed from satnavs, reducing a lot of traffic
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This approach has been discussed at various points through the thread.

One of the (claimed) objections from anti-LTN people is that they create privileged enclaves which enjoy reduced traffic while those on "boundary roads" see the opposite. Making these kinds of exemptions (assuming they still work in reducing traffic) makes those enclaves even more privileged because residents gain the benefits without any inconvenience to themselves.
 
teuchter said:
This approach has been discussed at various points through the thread.

One of the (claimed) objections from anti-LTN people is that they create privileged enclaves which enjoy reduced traffic while those on "boundary roads" see the opposite. Making these kinds of exemptions (assuming they still work in reducing traffic) makes those enclaves even more privileged because residents gain the benefits without any inconvenience to themselves.
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Yeah - really don’t like it, it seems a very Tory thing to do.

Also boroughs really shouldn’t mean that much in London and this is the opposite.
 
Also, if it becomes used in a lot of places, I expect sat nav systems will adapt to allow drivers to enter their exemptions and they will start sending people through these areas again.
 
teuchter said:
Also, if it becomes used in a lot of places, I expect sat nav systems will adapt to allow drivers to enter their exemptions and they will start sending people through these areas again.
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But only for the people in that borough - population of HF is 180k, it’s 2% of London population.

It’s a smart way to nullify local opposition.
 
alex_ said:
But only for the people in that borough - population of HF is 180k, it’s 2% of London population.

It’s a smart way to nullify local opposition.
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It's an easy way. Basically giving in to the car owning portion of the local population at the expense of the rest. But if it proves that it can still reduce traffic and car use then perhaps it can be accepted as better than nothing.
 
teuchter said:
It's an easy way. Basically giving in to the car owning portion of the local population at the expense of the rest. But if it proves that it can still reduce traffic and car use then perhaps it can be accepted as better than nothing.
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H&F are planning to cover the whole borough in 2 years, if they do that they will improve a huge number of peoples quality of life
 
alex_ said:
H&F are planning to cover the whole borough in 2 years, if they do that they will improve a huge number of peoples quality of life
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You could say that about any type of watered down proposal; it ignores the opportunity cost of not doing something more.

Maybe it's the only politically feasible choice in which case ok.

I just think it should be recognised that it's more than a tweak - it gives up on one of the intended aims which is to discourage short car journeys that could be made by other means.

For a borough resident this doesn't make it any more inconvenient to drive to the shops that are ten minutes' walk away. Arguably it might make it more convenient, if they can continue to use back road routes that out-of-borough journeys are removed from. It doesn't actually remove capacity from the road network, just allocates it to different people.

Have a think about what Railton Rd would be like now, if it were available as a through route to all Lambeth residents.

Anyway, Fulham's decision should at least serve as a useful experiment to see what the real world results of such an approach are.
 
Presumably it results in more mega local car journeys: good for helping local business models. less good for reducing pollution as, I assume, a greater proportion of those journeys will be short and using a cold engine.
 
My borough - Haringey - just implemented 3 schemes - worse traffic in my non-LTN area... can anyone teuchter point to any studies showing long-term impact on displaced traffic - not just on boundary roads - but where traffic shifts to other adjacent areas.
 
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