Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[chowce5382]

No, I'm not asking what you think might happen.

You have said that the council have been clear that there would be extra traffic/pollution, where did they make this statement?

No, I said that the council said traffic would move to other roads. It was my assertion then that if traffic moved to other roads those roads would ultimately take more traffic than before as a result of this movement. I think in one of the assessments of the overall scheme they say that this will happen by that it will evaporate later.

 

[edcraw]

I can see from your changing statements in this thread why you didn’t carry on as a lawyer.

 

[teuchter]

Shall we rewind a bit to where this started: a comment which clearly implies that the reason cars are rerouted is so that we increase pollution on certain roads.



This is completely different to

It was my assertion then that if traffic moved to other roads those roads would ultimately take more traffic than before as a result of this movement.

 

[sleaterkinney]

No, I said that the council said traffic would move to other roads. It was my assertion then that if traffic moved to other roads those roads would ultimately take more traffic than before as a result of this movement. I think in one of the assessments of the overall scheme they say that this will happen by that it will evaporate later.

So what the council actually said is that there would be no extra traffic/pollution - the opposite of what you posted.

 

[chowce5382]

So what the council actually said is that there would be no extra traffic/pollution - the opposite of what you posted.

No, that there would be, on the roads to which it would be displaced but the assumption was that it would evaporate at some point

 

[sleaterkinney]

No, that there would be, on the roads to which it would be displaced but the assumption was that it would evaporate at some point

So there wouldn't, in other words.

 

[teuchter]

A wee reminder to everyone from One Lambeth Justice (nb not connected to One Lambeth Justice) that there's no need for consultations to be actually representative of people in the area affected! Isn't consultation great?

 

[edcraw]

chowce5382 ’s mate has gone full on conspiracy nut now.

 

[chowce5382]

chowce5382 ’s mate has gone full on conspiracy nut now.

View attachment 284026

 

[liquidindian]

That's how I feel about One Lambeth Justice too, with a bit more .

 

[CH1]

Just for variety - and stimulated by the fact that the only topic guaranteed to get Nick Ferrari off the Taliban is LTNs in Dulwich - I tuned into the East Dulwich Forum
The East Dulwich Forum - original since 2006

As you see they are on page 211 now, albeit with more primitve software.
A cursory sample shows much less specifity on particular LTNs or roads - and indeed a certian naivité from posts:
eg - "you mean they don't build flat without underground car parks nowadays?"

We know the Brixton forum has a reach to Peckham and New York.
Maybe the East Dulwich Forum majors on Alicante?
Oh - and the posts certainly lack Mr Ferrari's vehemnt intensity on the matter.

 

[liquidindian]

I tuned into the East Dulwich Forum

From the forum referenced above and to be clear not CH1, hence the separate quote, hope that's clear enough:
Just walked past the “square”. There are nearly as many people with hi vis jackets (I assume volunteers preventing cycle/ pedestrian collisions) as there are other attendees, and I’m including patrons of au ciel and those heading into the bookshop. Complete and utter waste of council funds at at time when they’re not exactly flush with money.

Fascinating to see the fury about people enjoying the LTN, including the lie above. The event in the LTN was rammed when I was there, but there was jazz so I scarpered as soon as the nice Dr Bike man had fixed my attempted fix of my brakes. Where's the One Jazz Justice campaign, that's what I want to know.

 

[CH1]

Fascinating to see the fury about people enjoying the LTN, including the lie above. The event in the LTN was rammed when I was there, but there was jazz so I scarpered as soon as the nice Dr Bike man had fixed my attempted fix of my brakes. Where's the One Jazz Justice campaign, that's what I want to know.

Just watch it.
I posted the bit about East Dulwich LTN thread.

The 2nd para which you say is a "lie above" is nothing to do with me. Please source it properly - not to me.

 

[liquidindian]

That's why it's a separate quote not sourced to you. I'll edit it to make it clearer.

 

[liquidindian]

Lambeth man fined £300 after failed attempt to steal LTN road block sign

It comes as the council crackdown on LTN incidents

www.mylondon.news

 

[edcraw]

On the Ealing “consultations” - Survey Monkey? They weren’t even trying FFS! Glad the govt making sure councils don’t just waste the funding for these schemes and base them on actual evidence.

“ The council's move is based on a Survey Monkey poll carried out last month. Between 1% to 6% of Ealing's population completed the survey. The exact numbers are unknown as the council didn't ask for names, and people could vote more than once.”

Government halts council plans to pull LTNs

Ealing Council announced on 16 August that it wants to remove seven of the COVID-19 trial low-traffic neighbourhoods and make only two perma...

www.ealingcycling.org.uk

 

[alex_]

“ The council's move is based on a Survey Monkey poll carried out last month. Between 1% to 6% of Ealing's population completed the survey. The exact numbers are unknown as the council didn't ask for names, and people could vote more than once.”

so between 0% and 6% then !

 

[sleaterkinney]

“ The council's move is based on a Survey Monkey poll carried out last month. Between 1% to 6% of Ealing's population completed the survey. The exact numbers are unknown as the council didn't ask for names, and people could vote more than once.”

Government halts council plans to pull LTNs

Ealing Council announced on 16 August that it wants to remove seven of the COVID-19 trial low-traffic neighbourhoods and make only two perma...

www.ealingcycling.org.uk

That's the sort of thing that should be challenged..

 

[sleaterkinney]

Not WhatsApp, but New Scientist on how adding roads leads to more congestion.

Why adding a road can increase traffic and other modelling delights

Katy Börner's Atlas of Forecasts is packed full of interesting ways to model our world and predict what will happen. The question is, will people accept their wisdom?

www.newscientist.com

 

[liquidindian]

The Braess Paradox explained for anyone who's interested. As I understand it it's not a universal phonemenon but it shows you don't even need induced traffic for increased capacity to be Not Good.

 

[Rushy]

Peppa Pig verdict on increasing road capacity in Mr Bull's New Road at about 3.55.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Peppa Pig verdict on increasing road capacity in Mr Bull's New Road at about 3.55.

A truth so obvious even a child can understand it

 

[a_chap]

Twitter thread shows that the claim LTNs affect 999 response times is bollocks after all.

 

[teuchter]

Here's quite a good article about transport policy that actually does divide communities. Not by making car drivers go a slightly longer route whilst retaining full access for everyone else, but by physically destroying and dividing a neighbourhood to build a massive highway that encourages even more traffic.

How to Reconnect Black Communities Torn Apart by Highways

Decades ago, the federal highway boom tore apart historically Black neighborhoods across the U.S. The legacy of this racist federal transportation policy continues to define urban spaces, even as some cities look to reconnect these communities.

www.bloomberg.com

This of course nearly happened in Brixton a few decades ago.

 

[cogito]

Not WhatsApp, but New Scientist on how adding roads leads to more congestion.

Why adding a road can increase traffic and other modelling delights

Katy Börner's Atlas of Forecasts is packed full of interesting ways to model our world and predict what will happen. The question is, will people accept their wisdom?

www.newscientist.com

This is a book review not a peer reviewed scientific study,
New Scientist isn't the Lancet either.

 

[sleaterkinney]

This is a book review not a peer reviewed scientific study,
New Scientist isn't the Lancet either.

Plenty of science here if you want it.

Braess's paradox - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I presume you have some studies to post up yourself?

 

[thebackrow]

This is a book review not a peer reviewed scientific study,
New Scientist isn't the Lancet either.

You want Lancet content? You'll find lots of papers supporting reducing car use and increasing active travel there...
Scaling up urban infrastructure for physical activity in the COVID-19 pandemic and beyond - active transportation systems and active urban design have been recognised as among the best investments for encouraging physical activity at scale
Increased walking and cycling in urban areas and reduced use of private cars could reduce costs to the NHS, permitting decreased government expenditure on health or releasing resources to fund additional health care.
Incorporation of increased levels of physical activity as part of the commute to work could reduce obesity among middle-aged adults in the UK
Regular use of a bicycle as personal transport (instead of motorised vehicles) has many advantages for human health and a clean sustainable environmenthttps://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01599-3/fulltext?rss=yes
People who walk, cycle and travel by train to work are at reduced risk of early death or illness compared with those who commute by car.

 

[cogito]

Plenty of science here if you want it.

Braess's paradox - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I presume you have some studies to post up yourself?

It wasn't meant to criticise your post and only pointed out that the scientific relevance of the link wouldn't really cut it as it was only a book review.

 

[cogito]

You want Lancet content? You'll find lots of papers supporting reducing car use and increasing active travel there...
Scaling up urban infrastructure for physical activity in the COVID-19 pandemic and beyond - active transportation systems and active urban design have been recognised as among the best investments for encouraging physical activity at scale
Increased walking and cycling in urban areas and reduced use of private cars could reduce costs to the NHS, permitting decreased government expenditure on health or releasing resources to fund additional health care.
Incorporation of increased levels of physical activity as part of the commute to work could reduce obesity among middle-aged adults in the UK
Regular use of a bicycle as personal transport (instead of motorised vehicles) has many advantages for human health and a clean sustainable environmenthttps://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01599-3/fulltext?rss=yes
People who walk, cycle and travel by train to work are at reduced risk of early death or illness compared with those who commute by car.

Thanks and no I didn't ask for references from Lancet to support the case for LTNs

I only pointed out that the link was referencing a book review rather than an original article/research paper. I can understand how it would be attractive to use a reference from New Scientist rather than relying on WhatsApp if you're anti LTN. Using Lancet would be even better from an impact factor point of view.

 

[alex_]

Thanks and no I didn't ask for references from Lancet to support the case for LTNs

I only pointed out that the link was referencing a book review rather than an original article/research paper. I can understand how it would be attractive to use a reference from New Scientist rather than relying on WhatsApp if you're anti LTN. Using Lancet would be even better from an impact factor point of view.

what about Instagram ?