Well you and I are clearly of a different political view. But maybe you don't want to throw out the sort of mockery of Leftist views you did earlier because it makes you sound pretty reactionary.
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
Are you saying the Tories get voted in time after time because they have some good policies?
liquidindian
Hello
To be clear, I give a shit when it comes to, say, voting or what party I'm a member of (it's not the Tory party).
I still don't really understand your point, or if I do, it's so obvious a point I'm not sure it's worth making. I don't think that Johnson's views on active travel goes any way to redeeming him, neither does the fact that he seems to like dogs. But I still like dogs too.
I think we're in a weird position that this is a pretty mainstream policy for transport policymakers but not yet the public. And it's not really a Tory policy, not when Manchester and Lambeth are so keen.
I still don't really understand your point, or if I do, it's so obvious a point I'm not sure it's worth making. I don't think that Johnson's views on active travel goes any way to redeeming him, neither does the fact that he seems to like dogs. But I still like dogs too.
I think we're in a weird position that this is a pretty mainstream policy for transport policymakers but not yet the public. And it's not really a Tory policy, not when Manchester and Lambeth are so keen.
I don't think my point is so obvious that it doesn't need making, quite the opposite on what is often a far more conservative thread than you would expect, but thanks for your view on that.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
You think I sound reactionary??
liquidindian
Hello
The only out Tory on this thread that I'm aware of is the moneyman for the legal case against the policy. Meanwhile the OLJ social media bigs up the Workers Party, who seem to be literal communists.
Maybe it does need to be said that agreeing with around three minor policies and a foreword does not make me a BJ superfan.
Does it help if I say that I like the hire bikes but always make sure to call them "hire bikes" or "Santander bikes" and never "Boris bikes"? Or am I still impure?
Maybe it does need to be said that agreeing with around three minor policies and a foreword does not make me a BJ superfan.
Does it help if I say that I like the hire bikes but always make sure to call them "hire bikes" or "Santander bikes" and never "Boris bikes"? Or am I still impure?
Missing the point again. If I thought people on here were Tories, I wouldn't bother to point out the issues in what they are saying. It's when the anti Tories think it's not important to question the motives of theTories, say they've done one good thing or quote them as credible sources that I feel to say something. Oh yeah, and denigrade Lefties.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
I'm not, I do think you are though.
Aren't LTNs supported by Sadiq Khan and several Labour councils anyway?
This is what made you sound reactionary, making fun of Leftist politics.
What about me do you find reactionary?
liquidindian
Hello
I'm reminded of the Rangers fans in Larkhall that smash up everything green, from branches of Subway to green traffic lights.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
I made fun of the "because the tories are doing it, it's bad" position, to me that is reactionary.
You're misinterpreting me. I didn't say if the Tories are doing it, it's bad. I said that if the Tories are doing it they have an ulterior motive that is not for the greater good or to better/progress green or social issues, etc. Just to be clear.
But if you ever think the Tories have a good motive, then yes, we totally disagree on that and if that makes me reactionary then that's something I can definitely live with.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
You said:
Ok, so you're not saying the Tories are bad, just that they never do anything ok - and this isn't reactionary?
As I said and you have recognised, I have over a number of posts explained and elucidated on my opinion. So for example and to restate the obvious, I don't think gay marriage is bad because the Tories passed it but I don't think they passed it because they are wanting a more inclusive and less prejudiced society; particularly in light of their other views on equality.
However, and I've just said this in my last post, I will never ever consider an action taken by the Tories to be fuelled by justice or even goodwill. The fact that I even have to state that in a Tory context of thousands killed by Tory policies on welfare, Covid, immigration, aid, etc makes me frustrated. But I'll say it again: I will never ever ever consider a policy passed by the Tories to be one that's motive seeks for progress in social justice and societal well-being, in the UK or internationally. And if that's reactionary, I wear it happily.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
I don't want to chuck names about, but for me I can think that the tories are doing the wrong thing on immigration but are doing the right thing on active travel and ltns.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
There have been a lot of posts here trying to discredit those who oppose LTNs as being on the right. Which is meant to devalue any views they have of LTNs.
Yet Boris government, which is very right wing on lot of issues, gets let off the hook because Boris supports "active travel".
Yet Boris government, which is very right wing on lot of issues, gets let off the hook because Boris supports "active travel".
I’ve often pointed out the awful people that oppose LTNs, there are lots, but not all right wing - Claire Fox, the Workers Party. Quite rightly you’ve pointed out that that doesn’t make LTNs good but neither does this government supporting make them bad. I struggle to find anyone decent of note opposing LTNs though.
No one’s letting this government of the hook though.
ps. please don’t use “Boris” we don’t do that for any other politicians and is a deliberate ploy to soften the edges of, as you point out, a very right wing politician.
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
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sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
You could actually make a right-wing argument for active travel. London doesn’t have the road capacity or parking to cope if 10 or even 5% of the people who used public transport switched to cars, the city would grind to a halt, so it’s actually needed from an economic point of view too.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
I couldn’t care less why they did it. Shit people can occasionally do good things, regardless of their intention. LTN’s in this case being one such example.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I'm not the one here softening the edges of Boris.
liquidindian
Hello
You don't have to make one, the right wing government has been making these arguments for years. In 2014 they were saying that inactivity was costing the country £7.4 billion a year and set up a national framework to address the "inactivity epidemic". As I said before, if all you want to do is save money and avoid raising taxes, there are really compelling arguments for fewer cars on the road and more active travel. Like the environmental argument, I can see it, but I don't find it the most compelling argument.
liquidindian
Hello
I don't think the c-word is the term of endearment here as it is on the west of Scotland.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
So its not about left /right. Its that anyone who opposes LTNs is not a "decent" person.
I think you should spend less time looking at Twitter and go out to talk to real people.
I know of plenty people who are decent who aren't happy with LTNs.
I would say that locally Sofia the disabled lady is one of them.
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liquidindian
Hello
She defended One Lambeth Justice's comparison of LTNs to the Holocaust.
I'm sure there are very fine people of both sides, though
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I wondered how long it would take to go through her twitter.
So now she can be officially classified as non decent person.
Thanks for that. Really helpful.
A disabled person who has gone through a lot to take Lambeth on and at first opportunity you decide to have a go at her not Lambeth.
Nice. Your such a decent human being. Good to see you posting here.
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
and of course you would never stoop so low that you would construct a false equivalence to make the opposition look like wrong ‘uns
liquidindian
Hello
Cheers, appreciate it.
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
u too !Similar threads
