Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[Winot]

A reasonable pro-ltn article today from a Tory who regrets their idiotic pandering to the motor lobby

Labour is right about LTNs – the Tories need to learn the same lesson

For all the initial noise against low-traffic neighbourhoods, most people like them and they can benefit the public purse

www.theguardian.com

Gilligan may be a Tory but he was the main mover behind LTNs when he was Johnson's spad in DfT.

 

[edcraw]

Gilligan may be a Tory but he was the main mover behind LTNs when he was Johnson's spad in DfT.

Personally I don’t have a lot of time for him (or Alastair Campbell) after David Kelly’s death.

 

[Winot]

Personally I don’t have a lot of time for him (or Alastair Campbell) after David Kelly’s death.

Oh sure he's a nasty piece of work.

 

[edcraw]

Yay!! Another anti LTN fundraiser!!

 

[thebackrow]

Yay!! Another anti LTN fundraiser!!

to quote their fundraiser.

“This would be a landmark case not just for Lambeth but for the whole country. Thankyou.”

do these people do no research at all?

 

[edcraw]

These seem pretty minor changes and not actually an LTN. Some drivers (the majority?) just seem to oppose absolutely anything that slightly inconveniences them.

 

[liquidindian]

Do lawyers have any responsibility not to take on jobs that are obviously doomed? Surely if they're following a process that sticks closely to one that's already passed judicial review, like all the previous cases, then this is going nowhere.

 

[Winot]

Do lawyers have any responsibility not to take on jobs that are obviously doomed? Surely if they're following a process that sticks closely to one that's already passed judicial review, like all the previous cases, then this is going nowhere.

Lawyers have a duty to advise their clients properly. If they advise that the client is likely to lose and the client wants to go ahead anyway then that's the client's risk (yes I have been there).

 

[thebackrow]

I'm amazed at the cash that people throw at these anti-LTN fund raisers. Every single one of them has failed.

It may be that the council have missed some minor administrative part of the process, in which case they'll correct it and carry on. Thousands of pounds of public money wasted on the legal case, loads of peoples own money thrown away, simply to delay a scheme slightly.

 

[BusLanes]

Haven't they all lost before tho? Like what's the missing angle here, luck?

 

[sparkybird]

I suspect that those contributing don't know about the failed challenges as it's a new area and the organisers aren't going to tell them.....

 

[felonius monk]

I suspect that those contributing don't know about the failed challenges as it's a new area and the organisers aren't going to tell them.....

And the lawyers happy to take the money.

 

[editor]

You all got me interested now in exactly what the rules are crossing roads so I looked it up.

Whilst pedestrians get priority as a vulnerable road user, priority does not mean being in the road whenever and wherever you like.

Rules for pedestrians - Crossing the road (7 to 17)

The advice given below on crossing the road is for all pedestrians

www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk

Rules for pedestrians - Crossings (18 to 30)

Always check that the traffic has stopped before you start to cross or push a pram onto a crossing

www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk

At a rough guess - from my experience - I'd say that 99.99999% of drivers either don't know this rule or choose to ignore it:

At a junction. When you are crossing or waiting to cross the road, other traffic should give way. Look out for traffic turning into the road, especially from behind you, and cross at a place where drivers can see you. If you have started crossing and traffic wants to turn into the road, you have priority and they should give way

 

[edcraw]

At a rough guess - from my experience - I'd say that 99.99999% of drivers either don't know this rule or choose to ignore it:

I think a fair few know but even they don’t seem to care.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Yay!! Another anti LTN fundraiser!!

Lol

In the past there have been previous legal challenges to LTNs, with mixed success

 

[edcraw]

They seem to have upped the target don’t they!!

 

[thebackrow]

Lol

Mixed.

Either they’ve spent loads of money on lawyers to establish they don’t have any case
Or they’ve spent loads of money, gone to court, lost, appealed, lost etc.
in one case the cabbies actually won on bishopsgate. But lost when TfL appealed because the judgement was laughable.

 

[snowy_again]

It really is the same set of people again isn't it? Roping in some WD residents

 

[thebackrow]

I'm fascinated that they think there is something about this 8th LTN that Lambeth are implementing that makes it susceptible to a legal challenge. It's had extensive consultation and engagement (going back over nearly 10 years if you consider that it's happening in part to enable the Rosendale Road cycleway which was originally part of Quietway 7).

 

[Ryan2468]

I was in Chapter Barbers on Rosendale Road last week and someone came in with quite a rude attempt to try and get the owners to contribute to their crowdfunder for this... "I assume you're anti-LTN...I don't have much time..." his tone was a bit off considering he was looking for money. And jumping in front of customers trying to pay and leave too. I don't think the barbers were that fussed about it, seemed a bit desperate really. Thought all about the above as I overheard it.

 

[edcraw]

I was in Chapter Barbers on Rosendale Road last week and someone came in with quite a rude attempt to try and get the owners to contribute to their crowdfunder for this... "I assume you're anti-LTN...I don't have much time..." his tone was a bit off considering he was looking for money. And jumping in front of customers trying to pay and leave too. I don't think the barbers were that fussed about it, seemed a bit desperate really. Thought all about the above as I overheard it.

Sounds like this guy:

x.com

x.com

 

[thebackrow]

Lameth have a new "Healthy Neighbourhood Plan" covering the next couple of years -

https://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/documents/s158271/Appendix%20A%20-%20Healthy%20Neighbourhood%20Plan%202024%20to%202026.pdf

 

[teuchter]

So, LTNs are rebranded as Healthy Neighbourhoods. The anti-LTN folk will never see through it!

 

[madolesance]

So, LTNs are rebranded as Healthy Neighbourhoods. The anti-LTN folk will never see through it!

The antis will need to crowd fund 30k so they can be told protesting against LTN's is pointless cause they are no longer a thing. Healthy Neighbourhoods (HN) is where the new crowd funder should be directed.

 

[thebackrow]

Yay!! Another anti LTN fundraiser!!

Papers submitted and it sounds like most of the 30 K already spent even their lawyer believes only got a slightly above 50% chance of winning and it's on a procedure basis so even if they do succeed Lambeth will correct the procedure mistakes and carry on. They don't do the credibility any favours by tying it up with objecting to the control parking zone as well

 

[GOP]

The arrogance of the West Dulwich Action Group is quite staggering. The irony of them using spurious data to challenge the council’s spurious data is not lost on me. They keep bandying around this figure of 68% of residents opposing the LTN which is actually based on a figure of 67.4% of consultation respondents saying they were not happy. Furthermore, the other stats on the posters that have been plastered everywhere have no source or validity and are clearly designed to cause fear and anxiety. The action group went from querying the LTN to outright willing it to fail and the hysteria they have whipped up is beyond the pale.

The same residents who are now kicking up a stink are the same ones who have been complaining about traffic, parking, road rage and pollution for years. However, because the scheme that has been implemented does not entirely suit their privileged lifestyle they are furious.

I have lived in the on the West Norwood side of the West Dulwich ward (formerly Thurlow Park ward) for 25 years. The profile of our road has changed significantly I would say in the last 10 years. We have several households who own 3 cars on our road despite the fact most properties are terraced and no one has a drive way. There are several huge 4 x 4 cars as well as a motorhome which never moves. You’d think it was Snowdonia or something! There is a palpable sense of entitlement in the area and it’s obscene how they have raised 10’s of thousands of pounds to serve their own agenda. This money could have been much better spent elsewhere and funny how they have moved the goalposts for the fundraising target, Matt Hancock style, from £75,000 to £40,000.

 

[thebackrow]

funny how they have moved the goalposts for the fundraising target, Matt Hancock style, from £75,000 to £40,000.

Not really funny now that they've raised over £30,000 they admitted that's not nearly enough to complete the legal case which is pretty dishonest

 

[teuchter]

For the past 2-3 years I've been doing the walk from Herne Hill up to West Dulwich (Clive Road area) fairly regularly. Usually I walk along Croxted Rd which had/has a lot of the "no to traffic displacement" type signs outside the houses.

There was a while after that LTN (I now forget what its name is) got implemented, where I sometimes (but only sometimes) saw that there was indeed a bit of traffic buildup at the bottom end of Croxted Rd where it gets to Brockwell park.

But I haven't seen any significant queues there at all recently, and most of Croxted road has pretty light traffic for a road of that type. I really doubt it's any worse compared to before.

I bet any traffic monitoring would show very negligible change. Many of the signs are still up though.

Anyway, anyone living in the new W Dulwich LTN who has been paying attention ought to have made the same observations as I have.

 

[alex_]

For the past 2-3 years I've been doing the walk from Herne Hill up to West Dulwich (Clive Road area) fairly regularly. Usually I walk along Croxted Rd which had/has a lot of the "no to traffic displacement" type signs outside the houses.

There was a while after that LTN (I now forget what its name is) got implemented, where I sometimes (but only sometimes) saw that there was indeed a bit of traffic buildup at the bottom end of Croxted Rd where it gets to Brockwell park.

But I haven't seen any significant queues there at all recently, and most of Croxted road has pretty light traffic for a road of that type. I really doubt it's any worse compared to before.

I bet any traffic monitoring would show very negligible change. Many of the signs are still up though.

Anyway, anyone living in the new W Dulwich LTN who has been paying attention ought to have made the same observations as I have.

Same in Brixton hill, kings avenue was absolutely fucked for about 3 months after the LTN came it - but this has gone away.

Uber were still sending cars through the LTN incorrectly (you’d book a car and it would send one in from the “wrong side”) for nearly a year, which is preposterous considering their business model ( they only make money if their drivers get rides, so maximising driver ride time maximises their profits ).

Alex

 

[edcraw]

View attachment 444165

Papers submitted and it sounds like most of the 30 K already spent even their lawyer believes only got a slightly above 50% chance of winning and it's on a procedure basis so even if they do succeed Lambeth will correct the procedure mistakes and carry on. They don't do the credibility any favours by tying it up with objecting to the control parking zone as well

Oh what a surprise!! They're also against cycle lanes & parking controls...