Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[Torpid Scorpion]

So its OK to support a very right wing Tory government.

Yeh, they suck. But its possible, simple even, to support action on pollution, congestion, and improving the environment without supporting them.

the planet is clearly in even more dire shape than we thought at the start of this thread.

 

[Winot]

Not sure if anyone linked to the actual government publication up-thread but here it is just in case.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1007619/gear-change-one-year-on.pdf

 

[edcraw]

Sometimes you happen to agree with people who are despicable.

However, I don’t think I’ve ever agreed with Nigel Farage on anything.

 

[thebackrow]

Sometimes you happen to agree with people who are despicable.

However, I don’t think I’ve ever agreed with Nigel Farage on anything.

Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day.

 

[liquidindian]

Did the tories follow through with letting people with blue badges park for free outside hospitals? I agree with that one too. Not enough to, like, vote for them or anything, because of everything else.

It's weird to be told that I'm unthinkingly supporting the Tories by agreeing with a few policies, when that fact made me think about it quite a bit.

 

[Gramsci]

Yeh, they suck. But its possible, simple even, to support action on pollution, congestion, and improving the environment without supporting them.

the planet is clearly in even more dire shape than we thought at the start of this thread.

This is a broader topic.

{One parallel is that the Tories proposed reform of planning is like the way they appear now to want local Councils to implement LTNs. Top down and removing right to object to in meaningful way as this holds things up. }

On Climate change I'm a reader of Sci Fi and this genre has been dealing with possible scenarios.

One is a capitalist one. Rich in future will live in Eco Towers with water / fresh food and the rest will make do in the dust bowl ( The Water Knife by Paolo Bacigalupi ).

Earth will be ecologically rebuilt by Green dictatorship whilst those who can't stomach that go to build various utopian societies on asteroids. ( Paul McAuley novels The Quiet War and Gardens of the Sun-lot of stuff about environmentalism}

Kim Stanley Robinson Mars Trilogy touches on all these areas. Well worth a read if your into Green issues. Whole debate in it between faction who want to keep Mars unspoilt and those on other extreme who want to make it a new Earth through terraforming. And those stuck in the middle. Seems more relevant now.

So I wouldn't agree it was simple. As Climate change will affect all societies the question is how to adjust to it. There is more than one way.

Humans will adapt. Its at what cost and suffering. Also whether democracy will be set aside to do this.

This is a digression.

 

[teuchter]

Earth will be ecologically rebuilt by Green dictatorship whilst those who can't stomach that go to build various utopian societies on asteroids.

Sorry to be flippant but this reads a bit like a OneLambethJustice tweet.

 

[edcraw]

So I wouldn't agree it was simple. As Climate change will affect all societies the question is how to adjust to it. There is more than one way.

Humans will adapt. Its at what cost and suffering. Also whether democracy will be set aside to do this.

Adjusting means billions of deaths and seems to be the new climate change denial. It’s a frankly terrifying idea and incredibly flippant.

We need to minimise the impact and slow this down through radical action now. The fact that LTNs get this much backlash is really really depressing.

 

[BusLanes]

Big fan of the Mars Trilogy. I met the author at a signing a few years back too

 

[nagapie]

I cannot actually believe that people think the Tories are doing this for the good of the people. They do nothing for that reason. They don't care about imposing LTNRs because they are largely untouched by them. Do you think Boris or Jacob Reese Moggs etc care about the good or bad they bring to regular London people when they are barely touched by these measures.
Meanwhile they would not bat an eyelid to sign any trade deals with dodgy environmental implications, continue to trade with the biggest industrial polluters of the world and generally take a back seat on climate atrocities like rainforest deforestation, loss of species and the destruction of the polar ice caps.

Please, defend LTNRs for what you believe but once you defend this vile collection of self-interested criminals, you"re on shifting moral ground

 

[edcraw]

Whose defending Tories on here and what’s an LTNR?

 

[snowy_again]

OLJ now liking Freemam of the Land accounts (or freedom of the road in this case)

 

[liquidindian]

I cannot actually believe that people think the Tories are doing this for the good of the people.

I don't believe that. I do think that they're faced with three things that are incompatible: They have pledged not to raise taxes; EVs and fuel efficiency means declining revenue from roads; and people live longer lives and have more "unhealthy" years thanks to inactivity and that's incredibly expensive. If all you're thinking about is money then interventions like this still makes sense.

But maybe this is just unsophisticated talk and we should be planning to live on asteroids instead.

 

[nagapie]

I don't believe that. I do think that they're faced with three things that are incompatible: They have pledged not to raise taxes; EVs and fuel efficiency means declining revenue from roads; and people live longer lives and have more "unhealthy" years thanks to inactivity and that's incredibly expensive. If all you're thinking about is money then interventions like this still makes sense.

But maybe this is just unsophisticated talk and we should be planning to live on asteroids instead.

So they're doing it because they don't want to pay for care and pensions in the future, that sounds more like a Tory reason.

 

[nagapie]

Whose defending Tories on here and what’s an LTNR?

I don't post on this thread often any more, apologies for getting the acronym wrong.

 

[nagapie]

Whose defending Tories on here and what’s an LTNR?

There's plenty of comments defending the Tories, giving them the benefit of the doubt in introducing the LTNs for reasons for the benefit of humanity. As if.

 

[teuchter]

I don't get what the line of argument is supposed to be. There's other stuff the Tories are doing like, I dunno, not introducing capital punishment. So does this mean I'm supposed to start being in favour of capital punishment in case someone thinks I'm in favour of all the current government's policies?

The introduction of LTNs is, in principle, something all the main parties pretty much agree on. Why's that I wonder?

 

[nagapie]

Sometimes you happen to agree with people who are despicable.

However, I don’t think I’ve ever agreed with Nigel Farage on anything.

There's yours. I don't agree with despicable people such as the Tories. Do you think Farage is worse than Patel?
Your answer has ignored my comments on how the Tories clearly show they couldn't care less about the environment.

 

[nagapie]

I don't get what the line of argument is supposed to be. There's other stuff the Tories are doing like, I dunno, not introducing capital punishment. So does this mean I'm supposed to start being in favour of capital punishment in case someone thinks I'm in favour of all the current government's policies?

The introduction of LTNs is, in principle, something all the main parties pretty much agree on. Why's that I wonder?

So now we're judging them on what they don't do? What about all the shit they constantly do?
I don't think capital punishment is a good example, our society as a whole has moved so far from that.

 

[edcraw]

There's yours. I don't agree with despicable people such as the Tories. Do you think Farage is worse than Patel?
Your answer has ignored my comments on how the Tories clearly show they couldn't care less about the environment.

The Lambeth LTNs were bought in by Labour councillors - the one Tory councillor opposes them (and calls them eugenics).

I support LTNs despite the Tory government not because of it. I suspect they’re supporting them as a kind on green washing tbh, its minimal cost and something they can point to, it doesn’t make them wrong however.

 

[nagapie]

The Lambeth LTNs were bought in by Labour councillors - the one Tory councillor opposes them (and calls them eugenics).

I support LTNs despite the Tory government not because of it. I suspect they’re supporting them as a kind on green washing tbh, its minimal cost and something they can point to, it doesn’t make them wrong however.

I'm not sure you read my responses properly.
I've been posting about the Tory government always being wrong, I didn't say LTNs are wrong because that's not what I believe.
Your answer above is a lot more intelligent than the one where you mumbled on about sometimes agreeing with despicable people, in support of the Tories, because it actually demonstrates better than my post that the Tories don't support the green aims of LTNs.

 

[liquidindian]

Isn't this just "sure it's good for the environment, but do you know who else was a vegetarian?" in a new form?

 

[teuchter]

So now we're judging them on what they don't do? What about all the shit they constantly do?
I don't think capital punishment is a good example, our society as a whole has moved so far from that.

I'm happy to judge them on everything they do and don't do. What's your point?

 

[sleaterkinney]

The Tories brought in same sex marriage, is that a bad thing now?.

You say Tory I say scum etc etc.

 

[Gramsci]

Adjusting means billions of deaths and seems to be the new climate change denial. It’s a frankly terrifying idea and incredibly flippant.

I never said that.

 

[Gramsci]

I made mistake of assuming using references to a popular form of literature would be taken seriously. Sci Fi has always been about looking at social and political questions. It's also always been looked down as not serious literature.

 

[nagapie]

The Tories brought in same sex marriage, is that a bad thing now?.

You say Tory I say scum etc etc.

They are scum, through and through.

You mean the same Tories who brought in Section 28. Just because they bow to public pressure and pass a few vote winning measures doesn't make them any less awful.

 

[nagapie]

I'm happy to judge them on everything they do and don't do. What's your point?

My point is that they are busy passing so many damaging laws that I think it's ridiculous to say they're ok because they haven't got round to doing something more awful.

 

[alex_]

My point is that they are busy passing so many damaging laws that I think it's ridiculous to say they're ok because they haven't got round to doing something more awful.

no one is saying they are ok

 

[teuchter]

My point is that they are busy passing so many damaging laws that I think it's ridiculous to say they're ok because they haven't got round to doing something more awful.

Who's said they are ok?