Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[edcraw]

On a related note, there was a big traffic queue on Coldharbour Lane earlier and I decided to do a rough count of the amount of cars that had only one person in them it was around 70%. That has to change, no?

This is what I see every morning on Christchurch Rd, which I live next to, and that’s why it really sticks in the throat when OneLambeth claim to care about air pollution and blame LTNs.

The majority of Lambeth residents are managing without cars, are all those single occupied cars really driving because they have to or is it just because they can and it’s the easiest option.

Drivers need to take responsibility for the harm they cause and, if they really do care work, to find solutions. They haven’t, in fact cars are just getting bigger and bigger, and that’s why we are where we are.

 

[Gramsci]

Yet for all the noise One Lambeth made, and their insistence that they were representing a majority of residents, they could barely muster a crowd of 40 people for their disastrously back-firing Windrush Square rally.

On a related note, there was a big traffic queue on Coldharbour Lane earlier and I decided to do a rough count of the amount of cars that had only one person in them. It was around 70%. That has to change, no?

The way the Council has set up LTNs does not include Coldharbour lane as that is classified as main road. Ive noticed a lot of traffic on it recent mornings early around 7. I'm not clear if that is extra traffic due to LTNs or due to other reasons.

 

[Gramsci]

...not a bad move considering the weird antics that are being revealed.

Yes. Me getting mixed up with some one else's Twitter makes me think going private was right decision. Kind of wondering what is going on.

 

[Not a Vet]

Not sure there’s much in the way of weirdness going on or maybe there is, maybe the anti vaxers are right and we are all part of some huge social experiment. Add LTNs to the conspiracy. Anyway… the STOP boards I’ve seen around Herne hill and Brixton (quite a few on streets within LTNs) are interesting. The use of the colour green sort of suggests it’s a climate issue threat and I never thought I’d see the word displacement on a protest sign, I’m not sure that many will know what it means. That said, they are noticeable. I hope that doesn’t come across as condescending, I don’t mean it to be. For all the nastiness on Twitter, particularly, it does feel that we are starting to debate how these schemes should work instead of a rip them all out and keep the status quo approach.

 

[mbyrde12]

Not sure there’s much in the way of weirdness going on or maybe there is, maybe the anti vaxers are right and we are all part of some huge social experiment. Add LTNs to the conspiracy. Anyway… the STOP boards I’ve seen around Herne hill and Brixton (quite a few on streets within LTNs) are interesting. The use of the colour green sort of suggests it’s a climate issue threat and I never thought I’d see the word displacement on a protest sign, I’m not sure that many will know what it means. That said, they are noticeable. I hope that doesn’t come across as condescending, I don’t mean it to be. For all the nastiness on Twitter, particularly, it does feel that we are starting to debate how these schemes should work instead of a rip them all out and keep the status quo approach.

Stop traffic displacement = deliver measures to reduce traffic generally. Nice

 

[madolesance]

Not sure there’s much in the way of weirdness going on or maybe there is, maybe the anti vaxers are right and we are all part of some huge social experiment. Add LTNs to the conspiracy. Anyway… the STOP boards I’ve seen around Herne hill and Brixton (quite a few on streets within LTNs) are interesting. The use of the colour green sort of suggests it’s a climate issue threat and I never thought I’d see the word displacement on a protest sign, I’m not sure that many will know what it means. That said, they are noticeable. I hope that doesn’t come across as condescending, I don’t mean it to be. For all the nastiness on Twitter, particularly, it does feel that we are starting to debate how these schemes should work instead of a rip them all out and keep the status quo approach.

Also, none of those boards have any info about who is responsible for them, just a statement, in green and slightly vague.

 

[teuchter]

This is what I see every morning on Christchurch Rd, which I live next to, and that’s why it really sticks in the throat when OneLambeth claim to care about air pollution and blame LTNs.

The majority of Lambeth residents are managing without cars, are all those single occupied cars really driving because they have to or is it just because they can and it’s the easiest option.

Drivers need to take responsibility for the harm they cause and, if they really do care work, to find solutions. They haven’t, in fact cars are just getting bigger and bigger, and that’s why we are where we are.

I see the same, also live on a main-ish road and over the past 10 years have just watched things get increasingly worse; it feels like the roads become ever more aggressive, there are more and more cars speeding around and so many of them have just one person in them and they aren't cheap cars. I started this thread four years ago before LTNs were ever mentioned. As you say, cars are also getting bigger and bigger. Air pollution has become recognised as the serious problem it is.

And no-one objecting to the LTNs actually ever has any alternative solutions to offer, other than talk of 'consultation' that won't come up with any magic fixes and is a way of kicking the can down the road forever.

I happened upon this thread earlier today:





I don't 100% agree with everything he says but certainly recognise where he's coming from.

 

[Gramsci]

Not sure there’s much in the way of weirdness going on or maybe there is, maybe the anti vaxers are right and we are all part of some huge social experiment. Add LTNs to the conspiracy. Anyway… the STOP boards I’ve seen around Herne hill and Brixton (quite a few on streets within LTNs) are interesting. The use of the colour green sort of suggests it’s a climate issue threat and I never thought I’d see the word displacement on a protest sign, I’m not sure that many will know what it means. That said, they are noticeable. I hope that doesn’t come across as condescending, I don’t mean it to be. For all the nastiness on Twitter, particularly, it does feel that we are starting to debate how these schemes should work instead of a rip them all out and keep the status quo approach.

I've had someone post here saying they reported my twitter. I took it in good heart but it counts as weird to me.

I didn't put my profile here on private because I believe in conspiracies. I did it some time ago.

 

[teuchter]

I genuinely hope you can quote this back at me in a few months and prove me wrong: but I bet you, there will be absolutely no "starting again" of a real effort in that group to change anything meaningful - the group will fizzle out as soon as the danger of anything meaningful happening has passed. No one will come up with any magic solutions that allow you to reduce traffic and pollution without upsetting some people. The voices making a lot of noise about how they really do want things to change, just not quite like this - they will disappear. The people, whoever they are, investing lots of time making well produced propaganda videos anti the LTNs will not move on to making well produced videos persuading people to make changes to their transport habits. Either the council will manage to re-instate something smaller within the next couple of months, which might manage to be "better than nothing" or things will just stay as they are for another ten or twenty years and a load more people will suffer ill health from pollution related stuff and you'll continue with crappy, congested, noisy streets that are unwelcoming to pedestrians and cyclists. In fact it looks depressingly likely that things are just going to get worse and worse post covid, anywhere that doesn't manage to make some big changes right now.

^ I'm quoting myself here - this was a reply to girasol who was part of the "One Wandsworth" group. Around Spetember last year they managed to get Wandsworth to dump their LTNs.

So I wonder if girasol can provide us with an update on what One Wandsworth have been doing since; in what way have they 'started again' and been pushing for measures to improve congestion and pollution and road danger?

A look at their facebook page suggests that they are mainly posting about getting rid of cycle lanes, retweeting Tim Briggs and so on but maybe this gives a false impression of what their aims are?

 

[Not a Vet]

I've had someone post here saying they reported my twitter. I took it in good heart but it counts as weird to me.

I didn't put my profile here on private because I believe in conspiracies. I did it some time ago.

My post wasn’t necessarily aimed at you, hence I didn’t reply, just a general comment

 

[Gramsci]

This is what I see every morning on Christchurch Rd, which I live next to, and that’s why it really sticks in the throat when OneLambeth claim to care about air pollution and blame LTNs.

The majority of Lambeth residents are managing without cars, are all those single occupied cars really driving because they have to or is it just because they can and it’s the easiest option.

Drivers need to take responsibility for the harm they cause and, if they really do care work, to find solutions. They haven’t, in fact cars are just getting bigger and bigger, and that’s why we are where we are.

I thought in case of Railton the Council argument for LTN was to stop through traffic. Traffic that had no business within the Railton LTN area. As majority of traffic going through didn't stop and was using the roads to transit to another area.

I didn't think it was about people with legitimate reasons to visit ( care work) being made to change their behaviour.

 

[Gramsci]

^ I'm quoting myself here - this was a reply to girasol who was part of the "One Wandsworth" group. Around Spetember last year they managed to get Wandsworth to dump their LTNs.

So I wonder if girasol can provide us with an update on what One Wandsworth have been doing since; in what way have they 'started again' and been pushing for measures to improve congestion and pollution and road danger?

A look at their facebook page suggests that they are mainly posting about getting rid of cycle lanes, retweeting Tim Briggs and so on but maybe this gives a false impression of what their aims are?

In case of LJ after the road closure debacle a new round of consultation redesigned the CHL/Loughborough Road crossroads. This design was finished but Lambeth never did it.

I also know the TRA on North end of Loughborough Road wants improvements to that road. And have been talking to Council I believe.

Local community does have alternatives if asked. They aren't full on LTNs. But these people aren't petrol heads. They see issues with their roads and if asked want improvements.

This isn't going to satisfy those who want a specific form of Liveable Neighbourhood/LTN

It should be the Council going out and asking people what they want. Unlike other parts of Brixton the Council are treating LJ differently. They are talking to at least one TRA I know.

Quite different from way they have imposed LTNs in Railton and Ferndale.

 

[teuchter]

In case of LJ after the road closure debacle a new round of consultation redesigned the CHL/Loughborough Road crossroads. This design was finished but Lambeth never did it.

I also know the TRA on North end of Loughborough Road wants improvements to that road. And have been talking to Council I believe.

Local community does have alternatives if asked They aren't full on LTNs. But these people aren't petrol heads. They see issues with their roads and if asked want improvements.

This isn't going to satisfy those who want a specific form of Liveable Neighbourhood/LTN

It's very frustrating that Lambeth failed to implement that, but the changes were in the end fairly minor and weren't part of something of the scale needed to address wider problems.

 

[Gramsci]

It's very frustrating that Lambeth failed to implement that, but the changes were in the end fairly minor and weren't part of something of the scale needed to address wider problems.

In your opinion.

I edited my previous post.

The redesign of the cross roads was done to produce scheme that had cross community support. Which inevitably was going to be a comprimise.

If the Council had been serious about community engagement it would have built the scheme. Thus getting local community trust.

Then it could have suggested more later on. Building support gradually.

That isn't how this Council works.

 

[teuchter]

In your opinion.

I edited my previous post.

The redesign of the cross roads was done to produce scheme that had cross community support. Which inevitably was going to be a comprimise.

If the Council had been serious about community engagement it would have built the scheme. Thus getting local community trust.

Then it could have suggested more later on. Building support gradually.

That isn't how this Council works.

I'm not here to defend or represent the council.

 

[Gramsci]

I'm not here to defend or represent the council.

I don't know what that means.

I was pointing out that there is another way to go about this.

 

[Jeanette Moo]

Yet for all the noise One Lambeth made, and their insistence that they were representing a majority of residents, they could barely muster a crowd of 40 people for their disastrously back-firing Windrush Square rally.

On a related note, there was a big traffic queue on Coldharbour Lane earlier and I decided to do a rough count of the amount of cars that had only one person in them. It was around 70%. That has to change, no?

Yes. Could use all range of excuses from COVID to whatever but then Ealing pull up with 3000+ people from what I saw so it puts it to shame. I think Ealing are better organised. They were doing all the things Lambeth are doing now some 6 months ago (flyers, placards).

 

[Jeanette Moo]

Also, none of those boards have any info about who is responsible for them, just a statement, in green and slightly vague.

I have not seen any in the flesh but they do appear to get people talking

 

[teuchter]

Yes. Could use all range of excuses from COVID to whatever but then Ealing pull up with 3000+ people from what I saw so it puts it to shame. I think Ealing are better organised. They were doing all the things Lambeth are doing now some 6 months ago (flyers, placards).

Ealing has significantly higher car ownership than Lambeth.

 

[Jeanette Moo]

^ I'm quoting myself here - this was a reply to girasol who was part of the "One Wandsworth" group. Around Spetember last year they managed to get Wandsworth to dump their LTNs.

So I wonder if girasol can provide us with an update on what One Wandsworth have been doing since; in what way have they 'started again' and been pushing for measures to improve congestion and pollution and road danger?

A look at their facebook page suggests that they are mainly posting about getting rid of cycle lanes, retweeting Tim Briggs and so on but maybe this gives a false impression of what their aims are?

What do you care what people do with their time? Given your presence at LJ LTN meeting this subject is clearly something you have been involved in for a long time why would you expect others to have as much passion as you do? Sometimes it takes sometihng right in your face to get involved.

Im happy to admit i'll be a one-issue campaigner and then you'll probably never see me again. I'm drained with my own life (health, kids, mother, relationship, bills, work). I put myself down as someone who is just getting by and a lot of campaigning beyond doing your 'own bit' in your life so to speak is exhausting. " I'm not an night owl or an early bird i'm just some sort of permanently exhausted pigeon".

The sad thing is the distrust we saw of local councillors after the LJ LTN is now much larger. There's going to be a whole raft of opposition to the council making any changes, good or bad, to anything.

 

[Jeanette Moo]

Ealing has significantly higher car ownership than Lambeth.

More affluent also. Likely more cars per household. I remember ealing being quite 'nice'

 

[thebackrow]

More affluent also. Likely more cars per household. I remember ealing being quite 'nice'

Do you think a higher level of car ownership means more or less should be done to discourage car use? It does seem likely that an area of higher car ownership will generate more resistance to change but I don't think it follows that it's not just as important to make that change.

 

[Gramsci]

What do you care what people do with their time? Given your presence at LJ LTN meeting this subject is clearly something you have been involved in for a long time why would you expect others to have as much passion as you do? Sometimes it takes sometihng right in your face to get involved.

Im happy to admit i'll be a one-issue campaigner and then you'll probably never see me again. I'm drained with my own life (health, kids, mother, relationship, bills, work). I put myself down as someone who is just getting by and a lot of campaigning beyond doing your 'own bit' in your life so to speak is exhausting. " I'm not an night owl or an early bird i'm just some sort of permanently exhausted pigeon".

The sad thing is the distrust we saw of local councillors after the LJ LTN is now much larger. There's going to be a whole raft of opposition to the council making any changes, good or bad, to anything.

The distrust is still there.

And it continues. LJ Neighbourhood meeting this week. Told that we would not be allowed to talk to the consultants Council had hired to write some supplementary planning docs for LJ. This came from the top.

This is imo because residents in LJ have now a reputation to not always go along with Officers ideas. So this is how the Council top officers treat some sections of community. Cllrs sit there and won't criticise top echelons of Officers. Backbench Cllrs to afraid to do this.

I can understand why people can get irate with top of Council and why things get so adversarial.

 

[teuchter]

Protest against LTNs and similar is not Lambeth specific. Absolutely everywhere they are proposed, regardless of the council, and regardless of the way they are implemented or consulted on, there are people who will vehemently oppose them.

 

[Gramsci]

But its Lambeth that this thread is about.

 

[teuchter]

But its Lambeth that this thread is about.

My point is that while Lambeth could undoubtedly always have done things better/differently, the core of the opposition to these schemes would still be there, and the process would still be a bumpy and difficult one. In my opinion.

 

[Jeanette Moo]

Do you think a higher level of car ownership means more or less should be done to discourage car use? It does seem likely that an area of higher car ownership will generate more resistance to change but I don't think it follows that it's not just as important to make that change.

That's the thing though. I don't think. Like my last post said, you'll never see me again.

There was an article ages ago about how this level of interaction and campaigning is the forte of the middle class, well off. Unless you're paid to do it or it really is your passion.

I can't even solve my own health problems in London let alone try to solve car use in London. I've had to take a loan to travel to a foreign country to pay for medical procedures because COVID absolutely screwed the NHS waiting times. Anyone who could intubate was sent to the COVID wards and the waiting lists were long before - they are epic now. So i'm here, doing my best to work remotely while recovering at a friends house in a foreign land.

I'm just keeping my head above the water. Still getting the updates from my partner and neighbours about the traffic and situation there.

Before we had a borough that had heavily declining pollution levels. Now Its a car park. Traffic, honking, no one able to get around by (god forbid) car, bus. No one opening the windows to let in a breeze. Was it often liek this? Yup. Rush hour. Accidents. 2015. A few road works. Now its been a nightmware for months. What for? The rage on nextdoor, the media, the comments section on BB shows this isnt like the council has decided to make one rubbish trip a fortnight instead of every week or pave over a playground.. This is hitting people hard - not just car users either

All to try to eek out a few percentage points of car users. Whatever percentage they are of overall travel....and have an option to give up the car. i.e not work work and 'unnecessary' journeys. All while bus and tube capacity reduced and buses just sit there inching along.

For gods sake improve public transport, lower the cost, make better routes, more routes, fast track those e scooters. Don't create a car park to punish people into submission. It doesn't work, this is UK, not belarus.

 

[Winot]

Before we had a borough that had heavily declining pollution levels.

From 2017:

Report: Lambeth is the second worst borough in London for air pollution

With depressing regularity, Brixton Buzz has found itself reporting on the horrendous levels of pollution in our borough, and a recent report from the Mayor of London’s office shows that Lambeth Co…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

 

[Winot]

2019:

Lambeth is the worst borough in central London for action on air pollution, according to Mayor’s report

Lambeth is among the worst boroughs for action on air pollution. According to the Mayor’s annual survey of London, Lambeth is breaking legal air pollution limits on two key measures – and the…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

 

[Jeanette Moo]

From 2017:

Report: Lambeth is the second worst borough in London for air pollution

With depressing regularity, Brixton Buzz has found itself reporting on the horrendous levels of pollution in our borough, and a recent report from the Mayor of London’s office shows that Lambeth Co…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/projects_attachements/lambeth-air-quality-annual-status-report-2019.pdf

Heavily declining. Brixton road once famous for being the most polluted in London.

2014 = 149u
2019 = 60.1u

In fact most measurements that go back that far show heavy reductions.