Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[Gramsci]

Is that what you want? If you go on Sofia Sheikh's twitter feed you see her retweeting a whole bunch of appalling people, repeating bullshit about LTNs that there's little evidence for and lots of evidence against. I think this is Not A Good Thing™. Does that help?

At the same time, that doesn't mean she's lying about the problems she's had or doesn't have a specific point about a particular LTN.

I think that it's possible to believe that LTNs are in general a good thing, but also that people with specific needs should be listened to. I think it's possible to believe that someone has a right to bring a court case, and also that many of the people funding the court case don't really give a shit about the details, they just want the thing they don't like to go away.

Not how I read recent posts here.

Nor this one. You are criticising Sofia in first part of post. Implying she is bullshiter

This post reads to me that you want it both ways.

Individually undermine the actual disabled person who is doing the case. By searching their social media. Then saying there are issues. You want to have your cake and eat it.

BTW when you say its possible to believe that someone has right to bring case "possible" has nothing to do with it.

Her legal team have proved their is a case to answer. That is a fact.

 

[liquidindian]

You want to have your cake and eat it.

This is possible if there are two cakes.

 

[Gramsci]

This is possible if there are two cakes.

I find the way you are going on about this disabled lady offensive.

 

[liquidindian]

I don't think it's unfair to ask you to expand on that a bit.

 

[edcraw]

Gramsci - if you want to ignore what people are actually saying repeatedly and instead imply your own interpretations that’s your issue tbh.

 

[snowy_again]

Road traffic injuries are currently the leading cause of death for children and young adults aged 5-29 years old. Which is a bit depressing.

 

[Jeanette Moo]

Once again, a masterclass in how NOT to communicate with your target audience via social media.

I see this post now. 'OneLambeth' is the group posted in, it is not the poster - its a random individual

 

[Jeanette Moo]

Only 659 donors altogether, how many of them are actually local?. Where does the bulk of that money come from?

Most people give their names when you dontate, im pretty sure if doesn't ask for location.

You could always check the names against facebook, dorectories and other places if it bothers u that much. Say what you want but you've got a few thousand people on their group signed up with their real names. Perhaps we should provide proof of address to post here

 

[Jeanette Moo]

But is there an issue, I guess we have to wait for the judgement but why haven't disability organisations pursued this or used grants to help fund it? Doesn't that suggest something.

I'm sure we can agree that it shouldn't be left up to a pro-motoring lobby group.

Why didn't the council pursue feedback from disability groups or age groups like AgeUK. Doesn't that suggest something/

I'm sure we can agree that advice into such impactful things shouldn't be left up to a cycling campaign.

 

[Jeanette Moo]

Being an IT bod, I just can’t imagine why there can’t be a tech solution for the whole blue badge thing, e.g. I know it’s attached to a person not a vehicle but why does that need to be a physical badge? We don’t have tax discs displayed any more but the tech can know that you are taxed, why cannot it be a digital key that could be used in different vehicles albeit not all at the same time?

Yea other boroughs have done this. There was talk of allowing three cars to allow for carers and support staff. I think may be they are worried about abuse

 

[Jeanette Moo]

Not necessarily, IT budgets in public services are separated from front line budgets, particularly if you are replacing a manual system with a digital one. Increasingly public bodies are adopting the same systems such as office 365. They offer a no cost/low cost software development capability as part of their standard offer. You could do something in this space really easily although I don’t know what IT Lambeth have

THat sounds like to get it up and running but are there costs around people policing the system? Taking care of applications, looking for abuse of the system. It may not sound a lot but could mean another couple of bodies

 

[Not a Vet]

THat sounds like to get it up and running but are there costs around people policing the system? Taking care of applications, looking for abuse of the system. It may not sound a lot but could mean another couple of bodies

Nah, shouldn’t do, the whole idea is to provide a no cost/low cost solution. You can automate a lot of the processes and there’s full audit and rules to “police” it. There’s a lot of ignorance around this that IT = high cost but it doesn’t have to

 

[edcraw]

Why does chowce5382 care about cycling data for cycle lanes in areas with no LTNs?

 

[Jeanette Moo]

Nah, shouldn’t do, the whole idea is to provide a no cost/low cost solution. You can automate a lot of the processes and there’s full audit and rules to “police” it. There’s a lot of ignorance around this that IT = high cost but it doesn’t have to

It sounds like its already in place. I heard Lambeths own work vehicles as well as rubbish trucks are allowed in? So there's clearly a way of making exemptions.

As someone above said the badge is linked to a person not a car. Then it would bring another argument about those who care for the disabled getting access.

Before my mum went in a home she had a blue badge and i was her part-time carer. I would have gone for access but they could have said it's for 'registered' carers. Or they allow up to three cars per badge and that just invites people to register friends and neighbours. Also people like ageUK who have a whole host of services (events for the elderley, handymen, plumbers) who would say 'what about us who help those who are isolated'. The doctors, then nurses, the food delivies.

So many factors in play it just feels like they don't want to exempt anyone but Lambeth vehicles

 

[Jeanette Moo]

Why does chowce5382 care about cycling data for cycle lanes in areas with no LTNs?

This place goes stalker creepy muy rapido

 

[thebackrow]

It sounds like its already in place. I heard Lambeths own work vehicles as well as rubbish trucks are allowed in? So there's clearly a way of making exemptions.

As someone above said the badge is linked to a person not a car. Then it would bring another argument about those who care for the disabled getting access.

Before my mum went in a home she had a blue badge and i was her part-time carer. I would have gone for access but they could have said it's for 'registered' carers. Or they allow up to three cars per badge and that just invites people to register friends and neighbours. Also people like ageUK who have a whole host of services (events for the elderley, handymen, plumbers) who would say 'what about us who help those who are isolated'. The doctors, then nurses, the food delivies.

So many factors in play it just feels like they don't want to exempt anyone but Lambeth vehicles

I wonder if the exemption for bin lorries is as basic as someone looking at the photo/video before sending a fine. Quick and simple to exempt bin lorries. A bit more difficult if need to exempt a list of car registrations (and doesn’t need an expensive tech development for something that is supposed to be a trial and people are complaining if money is spent that suggests permanent)

 

[edcraw]

Croydon are reintroducing an LTN in Crystal Palace with ANPR cameras and resident exemptions:

Crystal Palace Low Traffic Neighbourhood’s return in the form of cameras

After six months of back and forth, Croydon Council has decided it will go ahead with an ‘experimental order’ that will restrict traffic through a number of roads in Crystal Palace and South Norwoo…

londonnewsonline.co.uk

Could someone actually say where Lambeth have said blue badge exemptions are unworkable?

I’m not sure full resident exemptions sits well with me as surely it means drivers in the area get all the benefits with no downsides and it’s not going to discourage unnecessary journeys.

 

[edcraw]

Here they say a full review of LTN exemption is ongoing.

Upcoming changes

A summary of upcoming improvements we intend to make in response to community feedback whilst working within the constraints of the ongoing lockdown

beta.lambeth.gov.uk

 

[Jeanette Moo]

I wonder if the exemption for bin lorries is as basic as someone looking at the photo/video before sending a fine. Quick and simple to exempt bin lorries. A bit more difficult if need to exempt a list of car registrations (and doesn’t need an expensive tech development for something that is supposed to be a trial and people are complaining if money is spent that suggests permanent)

I had heard that Lambeth's own vehicles were exempt (guessing marked cars, maintenance, etc. They would be hard to identify from the rear but I guess they have video so can see if its one of their cars

Good point about making exemptions for something that is a trial but the council would gain more support if they did it from the start. Catch22, screwed if they do screwed if they don't.

Someone on nextdoor just said goods vehciles (HGC) from retailers were exempt but I can't see how that is true

 

[alex_]

I had heard that Lambeth's own vehicles were exempt (guessing marked cars, maintenance, etc. They would be hard to identify from the rear but I guess they have video so can see if its one of their cars

Good point about making exemptions for something that is a trial but the council would gain more support if they did it from the start. Catch22, screwed if they do screwed if they don't.

Someone on nextdoor just said goods vehciles (HGC) from retailers were exempt but I can't see how that is true

I think everyone here would support blue badge exemptions, but it’d need to be linked to a number plate to make it workable. Which is almost what Lambeth have done with their vehicles.

 

[nagapie]

I think everyone here would support blue badge exemptions, but it’d need to be linked to a number plate to make it workable. Which is almost what Lambeth have done with their vehicles.

That's not how blue badges work for reasons related to the care of the qualifying person. Blue badge exemption exists for the congestion charge, of course it can be done.

 

[Not a Vet]

I think everyone here would support blue badge exemptions, but it’d need to be linked to a number plate to make it workable. Which is almost what Lambeth have done with their vehicles.

So that’s one way to do if another is like what happens to emergency vehicles when they trigger an anpr violation. In these cases, the ticket is still issued but the receiving organisation then needs to provide proof of who was driving and why, to get the ticket annulled. Swop emergency worker for blue badge holder and there’s a digital solution. Clearly you could identify people taking advantage by for instance multiple times with different reg numbers, two places at once etc. Same goes for carers or indeed anyone else exempted. My guess is that Lambeth do the same for their vehicles

 

[sleaterkinney]

I wonder if the exemption for bin lorries is as basic as someone looking at the photo/video before sending a fine. Quick and simple to exempt bin lorries. A bit more difficult if need to exempt a list of car registrations (and doesn’t need an expensive tech development for something that is supposed to be a trial and people are complaining if money is spent that suggests permanent)

That is probably it, hard to justify spending money on a system when it’s for a trial and could be for nothing.

 

[nagapie]

That is probably it, hard to justify spending money on a system when it’s for a trial and could be for nothing.

But you can't trial the system without putting the necessary systems in place.

 

[nagapie]

That is probably it, hard to justify spending money on a system when it’s for a trial and could be for nothing.

Also priorities. More ableism.

 

[sleaterkinney]

But you can't trial the system without putting the necessary systems in place.

You mentioned people who would have issues sitting in traffic jams etc, but what percentage of disabled people are they, could these schemes be actually be beneficial to other disabled people?.
Can the traffic flow etc not be analysed?

Also priorities. More ableism.

It does presume there’s a negative impact from this.

 

[chowce5382]

Why does chowce5382 care about cycling data for cycle lanes in areas with no LTNs?

It’s a fair ask. I

Why does chowce5382 care about cycling data for cycle lanes in areas with no LTNs?

Hi Ed, mainly because I think decisions should be made on the numbers underlying the press release format. It’s exactly why I didn’t like the concept that Brexit would make people % better off. If I can’t see the underlying numbers I can’t judge the benefit. I think that its fair and an understandable position. Unless of course you think that we shouldn’t see the data…

 

[chowce5382]

I wonder if the exemption for bin lorries is as basic as someone looking at the photo/video before sending a fine. Quick and simple to exempt bin lorries. A bit more difficult if need to exempt a list of car registrations (and doesn’t need an expensive tech development for something that is supposed to be a trial and people are complaining if money is spent that suggests permanent)

I don’t know S, it’s been done elsewhere. In fact, Fulham made it part of their process that they would allow badge holders and carers. You just send the details of the relevant person through and, if a camera catches them, the plate excludes them from a fine automatically. It is possible if there is the will

 

[chowce5382]

I wonder if the exemption for bin lorries is as basic as someone looking at the photo/video before sending a fine. Quick and simple to exempt bin lorries. A bit more difficult if need to exempt a list of car registrations (and doesn’t need an expensive tech development for something that is supposed to be a trial and people are complaining if money is spent that suggests permanent)

The point about the EQIA process is that the council is perfectly able to know the exactly number disabled people in any street, the nature of their disability and how this will impact them. This is information they already have. As you say, quick and simple to exempt bin lorries. Just as quick and simple to ensure that others are allowed access if you do the work in the first place. Of course, if you don’t, they those disabled people are placed behind bin lorries in the of precedent.

 

[edcraw]

It’s a fair ask. I

Hi Ed, mainly because I think decisions should be made on the numbers underlying the press release format. It’s exactly why I didn’t like the concept that Brexit would make people % better off. If I can’t see the underlying numbers I can’t judge the benefit. I think that its fair and an understandable position. Unless of course you think that we shouldn’t see the data…

It just seems weird that people opposing LTNs pretty much always seem to take an issue with any cycling infrastructure - certainly how OneLambeth comes across & just makes it look like a pro car lobby (dispute your protestations).

I presume you saw the data in the press release link in the tweet - just wondering what more you want & why? Do you want CS8 scrapped or just the recent improvements?

Cycle counts carried out by TfL along the upgraded CS8 route show that up to 2,650 people are using the route every day, with an average increase of 30 per cent on weekdays compared to the 2014-19 average – despite a drop in the overall number of journeys being made across London during the pandemic. Counts also suggest an average of 1,600 people a day are using the route at weekends.