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Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

Firstly an EQIA should be related to the thing it is referencing. If the EQIA is about LTNS then the research should be on LTNs. Speaking in generalities isn't enough and referencing something which is very general doesn't meet the high bar required.
Is that so you can dismiss LTN-specific research as being led by a "cycling zealot"? I see your game.

The citation is nothing to do with LTNs because the statement is nothing to do with LTNs. The statement about barriers to active travel. The research is about barriers to active travel. If there's one constant throughout all of this it's the cry of "we need data" followed quickly by "no not that data".
 
Yes because they were part of the implementation process and were being paid by the council whilst the decisions were being made. By having that role they went from being another interested group to be one which was able to influence travel policy over and above what a normal charity would. With that influence comes increased responsibility to ensure that you are giving the full picture. In that respect, my issue is more with the council than LCC although I would say that, once people were paid to help formulate policy, a conflict of interest arose. This isn't a singular issue with Lambeth as it has been replicated across other councils.
Are multiple people posting on this account? You said they LCC were being paid by the council (based on an FOI) but when I posted a link to the OneLambeth FOI that had Lambeth council stating they’d not paid LCC you denied that what what you’d said.


Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists


Now you’ve repeated what appears to be a blatant lie.
 
Is that so you can dismiss LTN-specific research as being led by a "cycling zealot"? I see your game.

The citation is nothing to do with LTNs because the statement is nothing to do with LTNs. The statement about barriers to active travel. The research is about barriers to active travel. If there's one constant throughout all of this it's the cry of "we need data" followed quickly by "no not that data".
The statement might not have anything to do with LTNs but the EQIA does, it is only about a specific LTN. I completely agree with the research about active travel, that;'s fine. what I'm talking about is the fact that the conclusion is that LTNs are positive for all disabled people without. The EQIA does not mention anything about various different subsets, how they have come to teh opinion for each different one which, when making a decision which impacts people in such a way, you would expect to see.

I get that this is a detailed area and a bit specialist esp if you haven't seen how these are normally formulated but you would expect to see much more detail about how they came to that positive decision because they could have said "positive and negative" but they didn't.
 
Are multiple people posting on this account? You said they LCC were being paid by the council (based on an FOI) but when I posted a link to the OneLambeth FOI that had Lambeth council stating they’d not paid LCC you denied that what what you’d said.
Now you’ve repeated what appears to be a blatant lie.
Sorry, I should have said payment in kind. My fault. LCC weren't paid directly but they gave their advice for free. That advice got them in the room to formulate policy whilst no other group had similar access so its a payment of kind. Other groups asked for access but they didn't get it, specifically local disabled groups. Sorry, my fault and I just checked that with the person who did the FOI originally. Again, sorry for that error. I'm trying to keep up with all the posts and wrote the long one whilst I was in between meetings. I hold up my hands.
 
Sorry, I should have said payment in kind. My fault. LCC weren't paid directly but they gave their advice for free. That advice got them in the room to formulate policy whilst no other group had similar access so its a payment of kind. Other groups asked for access but they didn't get it, specifically local disabled groups. Sorry, my fault and I just checked that with the person who did the FOI originally. Again, sorry for that error. I'm trying to keep up with all the posts and wrote the long one whilst I was in between meetings. I hold up my hands.
I can’t make any sense of that at all. You’ve said LCC were paid, we’re not paid, were paid and now that LCC were “paid in kind”.

you should probably correct the false statements (given they were the first and presumably this most significant) point you made.

I thought you said other groups were “in the room” as well ( Most of the group consulted were groups that represented physically able-bodied charities” ) but LCC were the only ones being paid (except they weren’t - as your FOI established) do is any engagement payment in kind?

it looks like the whole first paragraph here is nonsense as it all seems to be based around the idea that LCC had special access because they were paid.
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Other groups asked for access but they didn't get it, specifically local disabled groups.

Again, a claim made without evidence. Which local disabled groups were historically denied access, and from what. Surely any of them could have sent in something to the consultation?
 
Also wondering if your campaign has worked with any disability campaigns or charities and whether than have given you any funding?

I haven’t seen any mention of this but maybe that could have been a better approach.
 
I can’t make any sense of that at all. You’ve said LCC were paid, we’re not paid, were paid and now that LCC were “paid in kind”.

you should probably correct the false statements (given they were the first and presumably this most significant) point you made.

I thought you said other groups were “in the room” as well ( Most of the group consulted were groups that represented physically able-bodied charities” ) but LCC were the only ones being paid (except they weren’t - as your FOI established) do is any engagement payment in kind?

it looks like the whole first paragraph here is nonsense as it all seems to be based around the idea that LCC had special access because they were paid.
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To answer in turn:

I have said sorry and that I was incorrect.

Other groups were asked in general what they thought, they "represented physically able-bodied charities". The representative from LCC was actually in the room, i.e a consultant working with the smaller Lambeth transport team when deciding and finalising details of the LTNs which have been put in place including their location, form, area, and deciding whom they impacted. No other gorups had this position. As such, LCC agev this person for free but the payment in kind is that they were the only group actually part of the decision-making process, it was a barter for services between the two as explained in the definition provided above.

In the end, this goes back to my point about ideology. Why were they the only group allowed in the decision-making process when what was being put in place was going to impact a huge range of people and, given that, why were those people not part of the decision-making process?
 
Again, a claim made without evidence. Which local disabled groups were historically denied access, and from what. Surely any of them could have sent in something to the consultation?
Please read below about the difference between being asked and being part of the decision-making process. There is a considerable difference between the two
 
I do find it a bit rich that you come here wanting people to take what you say are you motivations at face value whilst ignoring what your donors say and what your own campaign says publicly.
Fine Ed, I know what my motivations are and, as I have said, all the information is on the site where people donate. We clearly state suspension and the full consultation. We all have other jobs etc to manage whilst trying to do this and so the place where everyone donates seemed like the best place to have the information.
 
Also wondering if your campaign has worked with any disability campaigns or charities and whether than have given you any funding?

I haven’t seen any mention of this but maybe that could have been a better approach.
We have spoken to a number of them and collated a lot of data and feedback from them which has been supportive. Charities have found covid very difficult and a number of them have barely been able to keep themselves going. Charities generally don't give money to third-party cases as they become a through payment processor for such payments which can be very difficult when their foundation is focussed on a specific cause. They were very supportive and told us they would suggest others donate. I understand your point and maybe if covid wasn't happening we could but it was hard enough just to contact them initially as all offices were closed and those who would have been working in them were out trying to look after those in need.
 
Fine Ed, I know what my motivations are and, as I have said, all the information is on the site where people donate. We clearly state suspension and the full consultation. We all have other jobs etc to manage whilst trying to do this and so the place where everyone donates seemed like the best place to have the information.
Are you happy that your campaign’s Twitter feed is accusing the council of “ethnic cleansing”?
 
To answer in turn:

I have said sorry and that I was incorrect.

Other groups were asked in general what they thought, they "represented physically able-bodied charities". The representative from LCC was actually in the room, i.e a consultant working with the smaller Lambeth transport team when deciding and finalising details of the LTNs which have been put in place including their location, form, area, and deciding whom they impacted. No other gorups had this position. As such, LCC agev this person for free but the payment in kind is that they were the only group actually part of the decision-making process, it was a barter for services between the two as explained in the definition provided above.

In the end, this goes back to my point about ideology. Why were they the only group allowed in the decision-making process when what was being put in place was going to impact a huge range of people and, given that, why were those people not part of the decision-making process?

I'm not having a go here. Just been reading recent posts.

What I gather is you are saying that a leading light in Lambeth Cyclists was employed as consultant by Lambeth to work on its transport policy.

Was that person hired independently of being in the LC (being paid as consultant) or officially given post as consultatant because they represented Lambeth Cyclists?
 
I'm not having a go here. Just been reading recent posts.

What I gather is you are saying that a leading light in Lambeth Cyclists was employed as consultant by Lambeth to work on its transport policy.

Was that person hired independently of being in the LC (being paid as consultant) or officially given post as consultatant because they represented Lambeth Cyclists?
The latter, they were there as Lambeth Cyclists person in the room. There were also a senior member of LCC at the time formulating LCCs cycling infra policy
 
Are you happy that your campaign’s Twitter feed is accusing the council of “ethnic cleansing”?
Ed, every time we go through this. I do t control the Twitter feed or post. However, on Railton and a couple of other areas people from the BAME community have said that they feel uncomfortable with where the planters are given that they divide a street and one part gets the traffic whilst the other doesn’t. I can’t comment further than that anecdotal piece of info.
 
Ed, every time we go through this. I do t control the Twitter feed or post. However, on Railton and a couple of other areas people from the BAME community have said that they feel uncomfortable with where the planters are given that they divide a street and one part gets the traffic whilst the other doesn’t. I can’t comment further than that anecdotal piece of info.
I didn’t ask if you controlled it - I asked if you were happy that your campaign is using such language. Are you?

“Ethnic cleansing” is very inflammatory language.

You keep saying “we” by the way but then distance yourself from any other part of your campaign.
 
To answer in turn:

I have said sorry and that I was incorrect.

Other groups were asked in general what they thought, they "represented physically able-bodied charities". The representative from LCC was actually in the room, i.e a consultant working with the smaller Lambeth transport team when deciding and finalising details of the LTNs which have been put in place including their location, form, area, and deciding whom they impacted. No other gorups had this position. As such, LCC agev this person for free but the payment in kind is that they were the only group actually part of the decision-making process, it was a barter for services between the two as explained in the definition provided above.

In the end, this goes back to my point about ideology. Why were they the only group allowed in the decision-making process when what was being put in place was going to impact a huge range of people and, given that, why were those people not part of the decision-making process?
I still don’t understand. You’ve said you were wrong in saying that they were paid (but haven’t edited or deleted the incorrect statements). Now you’re doubling down on some weird claim about payment in kind but again without any evidence.

you seem to be making some very specific claims - that LCC were involved in a unique way and that they were “officially given post as consultatant because they represented Lambeth Cyclists” - but I can’t see what you’re basing that on. And given you were claiming that they were being paid but now you’ve checked with someone else you’ve found that’s not true obviously there’s a worry this might be mistaken as well. Since it’s so core to your bitterness about LCC and your claim that this is all for the white middle class Lycra clad cyclists (though they’re not wearing Lycra, nor all white, nor do you have any way of assessing their class) it feels important
 
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Dear Teuchter, Ed & Liquidindian

To address your points in turn.

My use of Lycra-Clad and Ideological:

This comes from a vast number of FOIs and close scrutiny on some of the work done pre-covid towards the LTNs. Lambeth did a fair amount of work on LTNs before covid arrived on the world stage and also produced an impact assessment on people with protected characteristics. The LTN I live in, in Tulse hill is based entirely on the work done around LTNs before we knew about covid. The LTN that was imposed (without proper consultation) was a replica of that work. So, the first question I asked myself was how is it that an LTN based around work done before a global pandemic can happen to be the perfect response to that pandemic which was unforeseeable at the time. It seemed illogical to me one would fit perfectly for the other. As a result, I decided to dig into some of the work done around this LTN. Whilst Lambeth did consult some groups, I noticed that there was a complete lack of consultation with local disabled charities/groups. Most of the group consulted were groups that represented physically able-bodied charities. I looked at the feedback from each and one that stuck out was from Lambeth Cycling (a local offshoot of LCC) which said that they were delighted with the proposal as it implemented everything that had asked for apart from one thing, that there should be many more LTNs. I then looked further to find that, of all the groups who had representation on Lambeth council and who were actually being paid as a specialist transport consultant by the council, it was someone who was a senior member of LCC (now no longer working with them due to some racist tweets which were found by a journalist). Again, it seemed strange to me that, of all the groups they arsked for input and were indeed willing to pay for that input, it was LCC. Not a single disabled charity local to Brixton was asked, let alone being paid to formulate the transport policy around LTNs. At best I thought that the council had just just just forgotten they represented one of the poorest areas with one of the highest number of vulnerable people in London. So, I stayed judgment on the decision-making process.

I then decided to look at the EQIA they had undertaken and signed-off on in November 2019 (with the work having been done over the previous c.18 months). This EQIA stated that the impact for all disabled people in Lambeth would be positive. This statement was linked to some underlying research to back up this assertion so I got hold of this research. Having read it through I saw that the research was undertaken about 15 years ago and encompassed 24 disabled people based up in the North-East of England. This group of people did not live in or anywhere near to an LTN so I thought it was strange that this was the only piece of research that backed-up up this assertion. When I read through it further I found that the subjects used for this study were people who suffered from "mild to moderate learning difficulties". This is an important sub-set of disabled people, however, the thing that jumped out was that the council had formulated a policy, signed off a vital document that categorically stated that an LTN would be beneficial for all disabled people, and then linked it to an underlying piece of research which deliberately excluded anyone who was physically disabled in relation to a policy which promotes physical transport and then stated it would be positive for those people. I've had to review a number of these EQIAs in previous work, and the council has to do these on a regular basis so know exactly how to use underlying studies to get the answer they want.

The result was that I tried to work our whether:

1. The council was so utterly incompetent that they hadn't realised this and had just added a footnote which just happened to back up their assertion whilst, at the same time, being completely unaware of the fact that they had done this. I discounted this for the reason that the council undertakes these EQIAs on a regular basis and doesn't generally make mistakes such as this (unless they want to).

2. That the council just doesn't care in any way in carrying out their functions and are acting in just their self-interest in every way and at all times. I also discounted this due to the fact that I generally don't believe (and also don't want to believe) that politicians go into politics for self-interest and just purely promoting that self-interest (Boris Johnson possibly being the exception to this as someone who seems only to be interested in the furtherance of his own position).

3. That the council had an idea that they wanted transport change to be focused around cycling, that they had an end-game or answer that they wanted, and would try to ensure that the work they did pointed to that answer. This seemed the most likely to me, given that they had paid someone from LCC to be their consultant (and no-one from disabled groups), that they had cut out one of the main groups for whom the current LTNs would prove to be negative from one of the most important documents that could protect that group and had, when asked, said any change to their current plans was unworkable and not possible.

On the balance of facts, this seemed like an ideological position to me. I'm happy to stand by that as the evidence, to my eye, backs it up.

When I looked at more research in favor of LTNs, (provided by the council) I found that research wasn't peer-reviewed and, in a number of places, referenced its own research which isn't acceptable academic practice and that those researchers had either been trustees of LCC, had written some of the research when with LCC or been paid by LCC when undertaking their research.

Lycra-clad comment:

Given the above preponderance of LCC involved in the decision making and being paid for by the council and the above issues whereby vulnerable groups have been deliberately excluded, it seemed that LCC as a group (who has a membership which is the equivalent of 0.001% of London) seemed that they might be the main lobby group. I looked on the website and the board and saw that it was overwhelmingly white and middle-class. They also happened to be in lycra.

Ed - your point above LTNs and promoting cycling for people off main roads. I agree with this and think it's a good idea. In general, most people I know around here walk to where they need to go as it's not that far. Furthermore, whilst it is supposed to increase cycling an FOI actually shows that it has little difference. Whilst cycling and walking might be up by 60% when you asked every council to split out the data between the two you see that walking is up by 58% and cycling up by 2% (and this tracks across all councils, sometimes it is as much as 3% or goes down to 1% or less). This is why it's not reported separately. For the money being spent (£1500 on average for each extra cyclist on the road), I think that full consultation, EQIAs (properly undertaken), and a proper review would ensure that money spent gives the highest ROC/ROE (especially given our current fiscal situation, this is very important). By the way, I would want and hope that this came up with a vast majority of non-car options given that I don't have a car and walk everywhere or take public transport.

Again I go back to the fact that there wasn't consultation etc means that what has been implemented might benefit those who are more able people (after all, given the above it was designed to do so) but it hasn't taken into account other parts of our society and before we make these changes we have to work how these changes will impact them. I don't think it's right that we should make vulnerable groups live with the changes for 12-18 months as that is deeply inequitable.

Thanks for this from a lycra clad cyclist.
The latter, they were there as Lambeth Cyclists person in the room. There were also a senior member of LCC at the time formulating LCCs cycling infra policy

If that is true I'm a bit gobsmacked.

I'm in a couple of local groups. Whilst the Council consult us the groups I'm in don't have seat at the table for making policy. There is as you say a difference.

I was just looking back at your long post. I'm a lycra clad cyclist BTW. I also have sense of humour. Did hear you in Windrush Square.

I assume the Sophia case will concentrate on disability and equal opps.

Im wondering how much the judge will look at consultation.

As this thread is about Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood I was at local Neighbourhood forum meeting pre Covid where officer told us that there would be extensive consultation on BLN. That TFL expected this.

It would not go ahead without community support. That the BLN would be designed in conjunction with residents.

What you apoear to be saying is that the Council had already decided what it was going to do with a poor EQIA and having a consultant from LC to help them develop this policy.

It would be helpful if judge could look at time line of who decided what and when.

Certainly when I first heard of Brixton Liveable neighbourhood it was not a finished policy. The officer was making clear they would do consultation with hard to reach groups. That BLN would be Co designed with local community.

It would not go ahead otherwise.

I think it would be helpful if the judge could be encouraged to look at the consultation process.

Due to way that Council implemented the LTNs both sides are having a go at each other.

I would like an independent person to produce a timeline to be written into their judgement.

Imo most of this unpleasantness could have been avoided if the Council had done the consultation it promised pre pandemic.
 
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I still don’t understand. You’ve said you were wrong in saying that they were paid (but haven’t edited or deleted the incorrect statements). Now you’re foundling down on some weird claim shout payment in kind but again without any evidence.

you seem to be making some very specific claims - that LCC were involved in a unique way - but I can’t see what you’re basing that on. And given you were claiming that they were being paid but now you’ve checked with someone else you’ve found that’s not true obviously there’s a worry this might be mistaken as well. Since it’s so core to your bitterness about LCC it feels important.
I do t know how to change posts, happy to change it if you show me how and I’ll put payment in kind instead and update the post.

As per above, they were the only non council group on a transport committee making decisions which impacted everyone in the borough. Im not bitter towards them I just don’t think that is right especially when what was being decided impacted more than cyclists, that decision was one of the council Lambeth stopped using this person on the committee once LCC decided that they could
no longer work/with employ him.

I explained the concept of why it’s payment I kind using a definition you gave me. They were the only people in the room other than the council, no other charitable group got that access. LCC gave and service through the provision of that person and the council gained a service through the provision of that service. LCC gained the benefit of direct access to the decision making process.
 
I do t know how to change posts, happy to change it if you show me how and I’ll put payment in kind instead and update the post.

As per above, they were the only non council group on a transport committee making decisions which impacted everyone in the borough. Im not bitter towards them I just don’t think that is right especially when what was being decided impacted more than cyclists, that decision was one of the council Lambeth stopped using this person on the committee once LCC decided that they could
no longer work/with employ him.

I explained the concept of why it’s payment I kind using a definition you gave me. They were the only people in the room other than the council, no other charitable group got that access. LCC gave and service through the provision of that person and the council gained a service through the provision of that service. LCC gained the benefit of direct access to the decision making process.
The payment in kind line is, frankly, bollocks. Have some dignity and just accept you were wrong and there was no payment - if an org or individual gave time for free that is simply time they’ve given for free.
But that doesn’t establish it happened anyway.

I assume (since you’re so sure about it) that you can back up this claim that “they were the only non council group on a transport committee making decisions” - presumably there are meeting minutes you’ve FOI -d? Or some documentation about the decision making process?
 
We have spoken to a number of them and collated a lot of data and feedback from them which has been supportive. Charities have found covid very difficult and a number of them have barely been able to keep themselves going. Charities generally don't give money to third-party cases as they become a through payment processor for such payments which can be very difficult when their foundation is focussed on a specific cause. They were very supportive and told us they would suggest others donate. I understand your point and maybe if covid wasn't happening we could but it was hard enough just to contact them initially as all offices were closed and those who would have been working in them were out trying to look after those in need.
I've been a member of the OL Facebook group since it started. Not once has a DPO or other charity posted support on it, nor have i seen them ask their clients or supporters to do so. The bit in bold is them telling you politely to go away.
 
Thanks for this from a lycra clad cyclist.


If that is true I'm a bit gobsmacked.

I'm in a couple of local groups. Whilst the Council consult us the groups I'm in don't have seat at the table for making policy. There is as you say a difference.

I was just looking back at your long post. I'm a lycra clad cyclist BTW. I also have sense of humour. Did hear you in Windrush Square.

I assume the Sophia case will concentrate on disability and equal opps.

Im wondering how much the judge will look at consultation.

As this thread is about Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood I was at local Neighbourhood forum meeting pre Covid where officer told us that there would be extensive consultation on BLN. That TFL expected this.

It would not go ahead without community support. That the BLN would be designed in conjunction with residents.

What you apoear to be saying is that the Council had already decided what it was going to do with a poor EQIA and having a consultant from LC to help them develop this policy.

It would be helpful if judge could look at time line of who decided what and when.

Certainly when I first heard of Brixton Liveable neighbourhood it was not a finished policy. The officer was making clear they would do consultation with hard to reach groups. That BLN would be Co designed with local community.
Thanks for this, nice to hear you were there, my maiden speech 😂😂😂👍 I was a cyclist a while ago when I lived in Oval and worked near London Bridge. Got knocked off my bike by a car clipping my front wheel once and then again in a huddle of cyclists. My other half stopped me from cycling after that.

I’m yet to know exactly where the case will focus as the judge will decide that once listening to the arguments.

As regards the point on whether it goes ahead or not, the main concern of most peope
I’ve spoken to is that they haven’t been asked anything and that thi has been imposed. I suspect that people wouldn’t be as upset if they had been asked. When you mention the hard to reach groups, those groups have either not been asked or, if they have, haven’t seen any of their suggestions taken on board which is why I said it feels idelogical and now weight and access has been given to a certain group.

I hope that helps clear it up a bit. It would so much easier to do this face to face
 
(The three little dots next to “report” open a menu that lets you edit. You’ve got a fair bit to do I think)
 
I've been a member of the OL Facebook group since it started. Not once has a DPO or other charity posted support on it, nor have i seen them ask their clients or supporters to do so.
That’s interesting and backed up by the OL post looking for potential clients.

It’d be interesting to hear which groups are backing the campaign, though I imagine it can’t help having a toxic Twitter feed.
 
The payment in kind line is, frankly, bollocks. Have some dignity and just accept you were wrong and there was no payment - if an org or individual gave time for free that is simply time they’ve given for free.
But that doesn’t establish it happened anyway.

I assume (since you’re so sure about it) that you can back up this claim that “they were the only non council group on a transport committee making decisions” - presumably there are meeting minutes you’ve FOI -d? Or some documentation about the decision making process?
I admitted that I was wrong and corrected/clarified my position. I then said it was payment in kind, you gave me a definition of what that was and I told you how it fitted into that definition. That is happened I know as there are Zoom recordings of that person in the transport group advising at the time. They were then let go from that position at a later date
 
I didn’t ask if you controlled it - I asked if you were happy that your campaign is using such language. Are you?

“Ethnic cleansing” is very inflammatory language.

You keep saying “we” by the way but then distance yourself from any other part of your campaign.
How many One lambeths are there?
 
Thanks for this, nice to hear you were there, my maiden speech 😂😂😂👍 I was a cyclist a while ago when I lived in Oval and worked near London Bridge. Got knocked off my bike by a car clipping my front wheel once and then again in a huddle of cyclists. My other half stopped me from cycling after that.

I’m yet to know exactly where the case will focus as the judge will decide that once listening to the arguments.

As regards the point on whether it goes ahead or not, the main concern of most peope
I’ve spoken to is that they haven’t been asked anything and that thi has been imposed. I suspect that people wouldn’t be as upset if they had been asked. When you mention the hard to reach groups, those groups have either not been asked or, if they have, haven’t seen any of their suggestions taken on board which is why I said it feels idelogical and now weight and access has been given to a certain group.

I hope that helps clear it up a bit. It would so much easier to do this face to face

Im no legal expert. Sophia legal team have good track record. But just as suggestion they could look at consultation on Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and the Transport policy.

Looks to me that LCC had input on transport policy. Which is being used to justify LTNs now.

The other policy was Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood. This covered Ferndale, Railton and Tulse Hill.

This consultation was halted due to pandemic.

Then Council pushed through LTNs due to pandemic.

It looks like they had pretty advanced plans to put in place quickly. Despite saying re BLN that nothing had been decided yet.

So their are two policies/projects

Transport policy

Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood.
 
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