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Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

We said that we were asking for their suspension followed by full consultation, again in the gofundme page. We were very clear about this. I am not in control of any of the social media side of this as it was deemed that the treasurer should have a separate job and not be involved. I am also not responsible for what people post on Facebook.

I have tried to stress from the very beginning that this is a legal argument for me and goes to the root of how the executive behaves when given power. The first thing Lambeth did was decide to override their legal obligations to give due regard to those with protected characteristics, to me that is not an acceptable way to behave but a group of people who are in power and their first duty must be one of care.

I’m afraid that your posts are becoming increasingly erratic and I’ve put up with a considerable amount of abuse from people for standing up for the rule of law. As I’ve said previously, let’s just leave it there.

Did you make it clear that the LTN's would not be fully removed to your donors?
It's a simple question. Nowhere on your social media or your abusive OneLambethJustice Twitter where you abuse the council, posts for donations or on your Facebook group which regularly calls for vandalism and posts homophobic content have you mentioned that.
Just so you are aware. This is judgement related to a case which deals with exactly the issues for which we petitioning the court. You will notice the language in the last paragraph. It refers to “not the type of case in which to deny the claimant the normal order”. It goes on to say “the decisions (of the council) must be quashed and the matter remitted to the defendant (the council) for reconsideration.

they had to reconsider an entire tender process where contaracts had already been seated because they did not consider the equalities impact. The judge quashes their decisions, and demands that the process be undertaken again in a lawful manner. Thai is an example of a judge invalidating a decision and telling the council to go all the way back to square one.

I hope this helps as an example of a couple of the other posters who have questioned whether a judge has this power. You will see that it is “normal” for a judge to do this is these situations.
 
I think his concern is that you have misled those donating by letting them believe if this legal case is won they will see an instant removal of the LTN's which isn't the case, even if you win the LTN's will remain in place regardless and will have wasted 35+ grand of pensioners money.

I am just one person who has donated once and I was not lead to believe this nor others in my circle. Is it reasonable to assume that theer are ppl who will think that? I'd say so...but then i'd say those ppl didn't read what was written, have not been following closely.

As for pensioners donating - apart from some letters (which most did not receive) they are not online, on streetspace, twitter or anything. Surgeries are still closed I believe (I am out of the country so not sure). If anything pensioners, in my opinion, are not represented as they have no idea what the hell is going on but they see the same traffic I do.
 
Just so you are aware. This is judgement related to a case which deals with exactly the issues for which we petitioning the court. You will notice the language in the last paragraph. It refers to “not the type of case in which to deny the claimant the normal order”. It goes on to say “the decisions (of the council) must be quashed and the matter remitted to the defendant (the council) for reconsideration.

they had to reconsider an entire tender process where contaracts had already been seated because they did not consider the equalities impact. The judge quashes their decisions, and demands that the process be undertaken again in a lawful manner. Thai is an example of a judge invalidating a decision and telling the council to go all the way back to square one.

I hope this helps as an example of a couple of the other posters who have questioned whether a judge has this power. You will see that it is “normal” for a judge to do this is these situations.
37F7D7C8-C7A4-46B7-8366-E4141C53C9D2.jpeg
 
I am just one person who has donated once and I was not lead to believe this nor others in my circle. Is it reasonable to assume that theer are ppl who will think that? I'd say so...but then i'd say those ppl didn't read what was written, have not been following closely.

As for pensioners donating - apart from some letters (which most did not receive) they are not online, on streetspace, twitter or anything. Surgeries are still closed I believe (I am out of the country so not sure). If anything pensioners, in my opinion, are not represented as they have no idea what the hell is going on but they see the same traffic I do.
Pensioners aren't online?! I know plenty of pensioners who are online - on twitter, Facebook and on here frankly!
 
Did you make it clear that the LTN's would not be fully removed to your donors?
It's a simple question. Nowhere on your social media or your abusive OneLambethJustice Twitter where you abuse the council, posts for donations or on your Facebook group which regularly calls for vandalism and posts homophobic content have you mentioned that.

I think what many struggle to understand and what it took me 6 months to understand is that despite the name there is no Onelambeth. There are separate groups for each area (Oval, Railton, streatham, etc). The legal action is separate, the people who want to change the way Lambeth works as a council are separate, the people who run twitter stuff are separate, the people who set up the facebook group are separate and made it just for a 'meeting hall', the people who do flyers are separate, the people (like me) who are not in any LTN but feel the impact are separate and there are many not part of any group who are doing their own thing, or with their street or nighbours.

It's not one group with leaders. It's a load of different groups and every so often I find out more and more are popping up. Over the weekend i found out Landor road - and surrounding roads - have their own group against the LTNs.
 
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Seems like there are the following distinct issues:

1. Did Lambeth properly carry out an equalities assessment? I am very pro LTN but I can see that there are implications for people with disabilities and it must be correct to take this into account. I have no idea (like most of us) what Lambeth did and whether it was enough and I am happy for the court to look at this and Lambeth will of course have to abide by the decision. This is the system working and those of us that are pro LTN shouldn't stand in the way of that.

2. Similarly wrt consultation let's see what the court says. I suspect that if Lambeth took shortcuts then this is fixable and I wouldn't expect an adverse finding to result in the 'tearing out' of LTNs.

3. The motivation of the funders and the information that has been provided to them. First, the fact that I disagree with some of them politically is kind of irrelevant. They have a right to fund a court case and it might be the right thing to do. Secondly, I suspect there are many of them that think that success means no more LTNs. They are going to be sadly disappointed here is my guess. Also, fuck them - I don't care if they lose money and are sad about that.

Ultimately I am not too worried about the court case - it's not a bad thing to question Lambeth and if they have got things wrong then they need to fix that. I doubt it rings the death knell for LTNs and in fact could strengthen the mandate for them by ironing out any issues in the process.
I agree with this in its entirety. Especially (but not only) with the ‘fuck them’ part.
 
This is judgement related to a case which deals with exactly the issues for which we petitioning the court. You will notice the language in the last paragraph. It refers to “not the type of case in which to deny the claimant the normal order”. It goes on to say “the decisions (of the council) must be quashed and the matter remitted to the defendant (the council) for reconsideration.
Was a different decision made, do you know?
 
Was a different decision made, do you know?
The result of this was that the judge quashed the decision on the council. The council had to go back to square one and go through the process all over again but this time legally. During the time they were doing this things went back to how they were before the council made the relevant decision. As the judge states, this is “normal” where a judge rules against a council in situations such as these
 
The result of this was that the judge quashed the decision on the council. The council had to go back to square one and go through the process all over again but this time legally. During the time they were doing this things went back to how they were before the council made the relevant decision. As the judge states, this is “normal” where a judge rules against a council in situations such as these
Sorry, just got want you were pointing at. Yes, a different decision was made because, on reflection by the council, that decision did not meet the requirements of the act and so one that did meet those requirements was made. The result was that vulnerable people were protected
 
I thought I read the judge denied appeal but now the are appealing? Whats that about?
The judge said she thoughts there were no matters of law on which to appeal and her interpretation had been based on legal precedent. From what I can gather, the court of appeal allowed the appeal given the number of different parts of London the case could impact
 
We said that we were asking for their suspension followed by full consultation, again in the gofundme page. We were very clear about this. I am not in control of any of the social media side of this as it was deemed that the treasurer should have a separate job and not be involved. I am also not responsible for what people post on Facebook.

I have tried to stress from the very beginning that this is a legal argument for me and goes to the root of how the executive behaves when given power. The first thing Lambeth did was decide to override their legal obligations to give due regard to those with protected characteristics, to me that is not an acceptable way to behave but a group of people who are in power and their first duty must be one of care.

I’m afraid that your posts are becoming increasingly erratic and I’ve put up with a considerable amount of abuse from people for standing up for the rule of law. As I’ve said previously, let’s just leave it there.

Considering the harsh posts that have been been directed towards you here I think you have managed to stay civil and polite towards other posters. This is to your credit particularly as you are new poster here.

I'm not against LTNs. I'm against the way that Lambeth has implemented them.

What you are doing imo is exercising your democratic right to question the Executive (Lambeth Council) decision making. By supporting Sophia.

This is not "scamming", misleading donors or wasting money. Including as has been alleged Council tax payers money.

We live in a democracy. Its not a cheap option. The cheap option would be for the Executive to be able to push through what it wants without checks and balances /scrutiny.

You are late on This thread but early on some posters were quite happy with this being pushed through by executive using powers it had during pandemic. Quite happy to have LTNs rail roaded through so to speak.

So whilst I'm not a One Lambeth supporter I commend what I see as your genuine efforts to hold Lambeth to account.
 
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Considering the harsh posts that have been been directed towards you here I think you have managed to stay civil and polite towards other posters. This is to your credit particularly as you are new poster here.

I'm not against LTNs. I'm against the way that Lambeth has implemented them.

What you are doing imo is exercising your democratic right to question the Executive (Lambeth Council) decision making. By supporting Sophia.

This is not "scamming", misleading donors or wasting money. Including as has been alleged Council tax payers money.

We live in a democracy. Its not a cheap option. The cheap option would be for the Executive to be able to push through what it wants without checks and balances /scrutiny.

You are late on This thread but early on some posters were quite happy with this being pushed through by executive using powers it had during pandemic. Quite happy to have LTNs rail roaded through so to speak.

So whilst I'm not a One Lambeth supporter I commend what I see as your genuine efforts to hold Lambeth to account.
Thanks, that’s much appreciated. Whilst I understand that, whatever I say, a number of people here will refuse to believe that I’m doing this for the reasons I, and now you, have stated, it really is as simple as that; holding the executive to account.

When I started going through some of the documentation provided (or lack of it), my overwhelming feeling was that we deserve better than this from our elected officials. Unfortunately sometimes we have to go to court to keep them honest so they remember that they work for their communities and shops feel accountable for their actions.
 
Thanks, that’s much appreciated. Whilst I understand that, whatever I say, a number of people here will refuse to believe that I’m doing this for the reasons I, and now you, have stated, it really is as simple as that; holding the executive to account.
I know you say that you're nothing to do with the social media, but maybe you need to have a word, because your message here and the message on your Twitter feed are very very different. If OneLambethJustice chooses to make its public face all about the very worst in anti-cycling bollocks and conspiracymongering then it's not a huge leap to think that's what it is. And maybe you're not responsible for moderating the facebook group, but surely someone is.
 
I know you say that you're nothing to do with the social media, but maybe you need to have a word, because your message here and the message on your Twitter feed are very very different. If OneLambethJustice chooses to make its public face all about the very worst in anti-cycling bollocks and conspiracymongering then it's not a huge leap to think that's what it is. And maybe you're not responsible for moderating the facebook group, but surely someone is.
Whoever admins the FB page is a fucking arrogant, power-mad, ban-crazy twat. Or an expert in 'how to lose the support of the local media.'

The fact that you had to fill in a form declaring yourself to be totally against LTNs to be allowed to join the group speak volumes of the kind of community debate they're looking for.
 
Thanks, that’s much appreciated. Whilst I understand that, whatever I say, a number of people here will refuse to believe that I’m doing this for the reasons I, and now you, have stated, it really is as simple as that; holding the executive to account.
This just doesn't entirely tally with your statement to the protest gathering that Lambeth are pushing through an ideologically driven scheme that only benefits white middle class male cyclists.

That kind of statement sets up an idea that LTNs are against the interests of fairly specific groups of people. That goes beyond "simply" ensuring that the needs of disabled people are considered.

It seems the message you chose for your audience there is different to the message you choose for your audience here.
 
I know you say that you're nothing to do with the social media, but maybe you need to have a word, because your message here and the message on your Twitter feed are very very different. If OneLambethJustice chooses to make its public face all about the very worst in anti-cycling bollocks and conspiracymongering then it's not a huge leap to think that's what it is. And maybe you're not responsible for moderating the facebook group, but surely someone is.
Indeed - here are the last 4 tweets from the OneLambeth Justice account. It’s bloody weird and think fair to question Charlie’s motives when this is the public face of his campaign.

6145EE11-F0DE-481B-B795-4D79EF955CA6.jpegAD19CAB3-EE70-4808-B680-FE4867C082ED.jpeg
1D2E53DE-A636-4990-BC39-A92C93D9B594.jpegD7B4693E-1C98-4000-954C-AF5521BDDC0D.jpeg
 
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Maybe chowce5382 can clarify why they chose to use 'lycra-clad'. Usually it's code for confident, well off leisure or commuter cyclists who'd be much more likely to cycle on the main roads than take the quieter back routes that LTNs try to provide, and who are not doing short local journeys.

It wouldn't encompass, for example, parents who want to try out doing the school run by bike rather than car. The kind of journeys which, if you could encourage them, could take significant amounts of traffic off the roads.
 
Maybe chowce5382 can clarify why they chose to use 'lycra-clad'. Usually it's code for confident, well off leisure or commuter cyclists who'd be much more likely to cycle on the main roads than take the quieter back routes that LTNs try to provide, and who are not doing short local journeys.

It wouldn't encompass, for example, parents who want to try out doing the school run by bike rather than car. The kind of journeys which, if you could encourage them, could take significant amounts of traffic off the roads.
Part of LTNs are about encouraging people that don’t feel safe enough to cycle at the moment to do so. At the moment we’re geared to fast cycling on main roads and so that’s the type of cyclist we end up with - but we’ve already started to see this change.

It sounds like dog whistle politics to me and not sure that with this, and his campaign’s Twitter feed, he should be that surprised if people think he has politics in common with UKIP. He’s presenting a very different face on here but that video suggests he tailors his message to his audience.
 
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Well let's just say the older you are the less likely you are to be active on the internet. Not be on email, not be able to work out a site such as streetspace and so on.

A generalisation but one which you could make without being too unfair
And let’s not forget internet poverty - lots of people have either very restricted access via PAYG, or no access at all. When I was a Labour Party ward secretary albeit around 8-9 years ago, I think it was about 15% of members had no email address and had effectively been excluded from party updates because previous secretaries had simply decided to go paperless without providing for those members that were not on line in any way. And I have to say they were the more elderly members. There should always be alternative methods to online methods easily available in the interest of equality
 
Maybe chowce5382 can clarify why they chose to use 'lycra-clad'. Usually it's code for confident, well off leisure or commuter cyclists who'd be much more likely to cycle on the main roads than take the quieter back routes that LTNs try to provide, and who are not doing short local journeys.

It wouldn't encompass, for example, parents who want to try out doing the school run by bike rather than car. The kind of journeys which, if you could encourage them, could take significant amounts of traffic off the roads.
Dear Teuchter, Ed & Liquidindian

To address your points in turn.

My use of Lycra-Clad and Ideological:

This comes from a vast number of FOIs and close scrutiny on some of the work done pre-covid towards the LTNs. Lambeth did a fair amount of work on LTNs before covid arrived on the world stage and also produced an impact assessment on people with protected characteristics. The LTN I live in, in Tulse hill is based entirely on the work done around LTNs before we knew about covid. The LTN that was imposed (without proper consultation) was a replica of that work. So, the first question I asked myself was how is it that an LTN based around work done before a global pandemic can happen to be the perfect response to that pandemic which was unforeseeable at the time. It seemed illogical to me one would fit perfectly for the other. As a result, I decided to dig into some of the work done around this LTN. Whilst Lambeth did consult some groups, I noticed that there was a complete lack of consultation with local disabled charities/groups. Most of the group consulted were groups that represented physically able-bodied charities. I looked at the feedback from each and one that stuck out was from Lambeth Cycling (a local offshoot of LCC) which said that they were delighted with the proposal as it implemented everything that had asked for apart from one thing, that there should be many more LTNs. I then looked further to find that, of all the groups who had representation on Lambeth council during the actual decision making process, it was someone who was a senior member of LCC (now no longer working with them due to some racist tweets which were found by a journalist). Again, it seemed strange to me that, of all the groups they asked to advise on the decision making process, it was LCC. Not a single disabled charity local to Brixton was asked to advise on the decision making process regarding the formulation of the transport policy around LTNs. At best I thought that the council had just just just forgotten they represented one of the poorest areas with one of the highest number of vulnerable people in London. So, I stayed judgment on the decision-making process.

I then decided to look at the EQIA they had undertaken and signed-off on in November 2019 (with the work having been done over the previous c.18 months). This EQIA stated that the impact for all disabled people in Lambeth would be positive. This statement was linked to some underlying research to back up this assertion so I got hold of this research. Having read it through I saw that the research was undertaken about 15 years ago and encompassed 24 disabled people based up in the North-East of England. This group of people did not live in or anywhere near to an LTN so I thought it was strange that this was the only piece of research that backed-up up this assertion. When I read through it further I found that the subjects used for this study were people who suffered from "mild to moderate learning difficulties". This is an important sub-set of disabled people, however, the thing that jumped out was that the council had formulated a policy, signed off a vital document that categorically stated that an LTN would be beneficial for all disabled people, and then linked it to an underlying piece of research which deliberately excluded anyone who was physically disabled in relation to a policy which promotes physical transport and then stated it would be positive for those people. I've had to review a number of these EQIAs in previous work, and the council has to do these on a regular basis so know exactly how to use underlying studies to get the answer they want.

The result was that I tried to work our whether:

1. The council was so utterly incompetent that they hadn't realised this and had just added a footnote which just happened to back up their assertion whilst, at the same time, being completely unaware of the fact that they had done this. I discounted this for the reason that the council undertakes these EQIAs on a regular basis and doesn't generally make mistakes such as this (unless they want to).

2. That the council just doesn't care in any way in carrying out their functions and are acting in just their self-interest in every way and at all times. I also discounted this due to the fact that I generally don't believe (and also don't want to believe) that politicians go into politics for self-interest and just purely promoting that self-interest (Boris Johnson possibly being the exception to this as someone who seems only to be interested in the furtherance of his own position).

3. That the council had an idea that they wanted transport change to be focused around cycling, that they had an end-game or answer that they wanted, and would try to ensure that the work they did pointed to that answer. This seemed the most likely to me, given that they had given someone from LCC access over and above any disabled group to be their consultant, that they had cut out one of the main groups for whom the current LTNs would prove to be negative from one of the most important documents that could protect that group and had, when asked, said any change to their current plans was unworkable and not possible. Regarding the position between LCC and the consultant, this was not paid for by the council directly, however, the LCC representative was given acces as an advisor to the decision making process around how to implement LTNs which other groups were not. As such I can be defined as a payment in kind

On the balance of facts, this seemed like an ideological position to me. I'm happy to stand by that as the evidence, to my eye, backs it up.

When I looked at more research in favor of LTNs, (provided by the council) I found that research wasn't peer-reviewed and, in a number of places, referenced its own research which isn't acceptable academic practice and that those researchers had either been trustees of LCC, had written some of the research when with LCC or been paid by LCC when undertaking their research.

Lycra-clad comment:

Given the above advisory capacity of LCC involved in the decision making and the above issues whereby vulnerable groups have been deliberately excluded, it seemed that LCC as a group (who has a membership which is the equivalent of 0.001% of London) seemed that they might be the main lobby group. I looked on the website and the board and saw that it was overwhelmingly white and middle-class. They also happened to be in lycra.

Ed - your point above LTNs and promoting cycling for people off main roads. I agree with this and think it's a good idea. In general, most people I know around here walk to where they need to go as it's not that far. Furthermore, whilst it is supposed to increase cycling an FOI actually shows that it has little difference. Whilst cycling and walking might be up by 60% when you asked every council to split out the data between the two you see that walking is up by 58% and cycling up by 2% (and this tracks across all councils, sometimes it is as much as 3% or goes down to 1% or less). This is why it's not reported separately. For the money being spent (£1500 on average for each extra cyclist on the road), I think that full consultation, EQIAs (properly undertaken), and a proper review would ensure that money spent gives the highest ROC/ROE (especially given our current fiscal situation, this is very important). By the way, I would want and hope that this came up with a vast majority of non-car options given that I don't have a car and walk everywhere or take public transport.

Again I go back to the fact that there wasn't consultation etc means that what has been implemented might benefit those who are more able people (after all, given the above it was designed to do so) but it hasn't taken into account other parts of our society and before we make these changes we have to work how these changes will impact them. I don't think it's right that we should make vulnerable groups live with the changes for 12-18 months as that is deeply inequitable.
 
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I think the communication from the council has been bad on that point. There are a few existing LTNs in Brixton and lots of the estates have been designed without through roads, it's an accepted part of urban planning and shouldn't have been presented like a funky new idea when it isn't at all.
 
I'm not a member of the LCC, nor do I want to try to speak for them or even position myself as defending them. However I have just now gone to look at what their Constitution says, and it says their objectives are:

3. Objects of the Company
3.1 The objects for which the Company is established are:-
to promote cycling for the public benefit in the United Kingdom as a means of
furthering the following charitable purposes:
3.1.1 the promotion of public health,
3.1.2 the promotion of healthy recreation in the interests of social welfare,
3.1.3 the promotion of public safety, particularly on the highways,
3.1.4 the relief of the needs of people with mental and physical disabilities,
3.1.5 the promotion of the conservation and protection of the environment and
3.1.6 the advancement of education
by whatever means the Board think fit, including the provision of cycling facilities,
services, training, educational activities, and lobbying and campaigning in matters
relating to cycling and other forms of transport.


On the other hand you seem to be saying you've gone to their website, looked at some pictures on it, decided that what people in the pictures are wearing is of significance, and maybe looked at the gender and ethnicity of some of the people involved. Having gathered this information about who is visibly involved, you have made a judgement about their motives and interests (and that they are contrary to their Constitution).

Then you've further extrapolated that because they were involved as consultants to Lambeth, Lambeth has implemented LTNs that further the interests of this one campaign group.

Is that about right?
 
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