Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[nagapie]

No-one has written anything like that.

Bees has. The problem is that we have a culture of using cars. No acknowledgement of the relentless physical challenges carers face daily and now they must all push wheelchairs around instead of using a benefit that gives them access to a vehicle.
It's no wonder that women in Lambeth has had to hitch herself to One Lambeth, you can imagine the council having these exact same conversations so they don't have to implement blue badge access.

 

[nagapie]

This I agree with.

I also think that disabled Londoner's should have free access to modified/accessible bikes & trikes where appropriate/wanted, as well as free access to training and active assistance to enable use where appropriate/wanted.

Absolutely. But there are a huge amount who will not be able to access those methods as an actual means of transport for various reasons.
We need more accessibility, not less. Adapted, free bikes/trikes and motibility and blue badges.

 

[BillRiver]

Absolutely. But there are a huge amount who will not be able to access those methods as an actual means of transport for various reasons.
We need more accessibility, not less. Adapted, free bikes/trikes and motibility and blue badges.

Exactly.

And we can/could have all of that, plus LTN's, if enough of us agreed and made it happen.

 

[teuchter]

Bees has.

Don't think so -

There will always be some for whom a car is the best/only solution. But there are many who can be given more options.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Bees has.

That's funny, because I don't recall writing anything like that.

Again, go back and try reading what I actually said.

 

[Gramsci]

No-one has written anything like that.

You did say in reply to nagapie some time ago this in post 1468

I think it can make perfect sense to decide, for example, that money is better spent on things like making public transport fully accessible to all, than it is for minimising inconvenience to that portion of disabled people who have the privilege of private car access.

I've read nearly most of this thread. Nagapie has at points on this thread raised issues of disability and has had to be persistent to get it taken seriously.

Posters and not just you have tried to chip away at Nagapie take on it throughout this thread. Whilst saying they are concerned about disability.

I agree with Nagapie the kind of posts seen here will be what Lambeth are rehearsing for the upcoming JR with Sofia.

I really hope Sofia will cope with it.

 

[teuchter]

You did say in reply to nagapie some time ago this in post 1468

That is in no way a post saying that I think vehicles are unecessary for disabled people, is it?

Neither have I been arguing against an exemption for blue badge holders.

The full text of my post that you selectively quote is here.

 

[alex_]

So blue badge holders shouldn't get access because a minority of people abuse the system.

Only she didn’t say that

 

[Gramsci]

That is in no way a post saying that I think vehicles are unecessary for disabled people, is it?

Neither have I been arguing against an exemption for blue badge holders.

The full text of my post that you selectively quote is here.

The reply I expected. I don't want to get into series of posts about this.

I used it as example of kind of language that has been used here. A disabled person who needs a car is referred to as privileged.

 

[Gramsci]

Only she didn’t say that

As good as said it. First part of post was saying it will lead to possibly more abuse of the system in that posters opinion.

 

[BillRiver]

The reply I expected. I don't want to get into series of posts about this.

I used it as example of kind of language that has been used here. A disabled person who needs a car is referred to as privileged.

Many disabled people need cars and yet don't have one. So in that sense those who need one and have one are privileged over those disabled people who need but don't have.

It doesn't mean both groups of disabled people aren't massively oppressed in myriad ways.

 

[teuchter]

A disabled person who needs a car is referred to as privileged.

I was saying that a private car is a privilege which not everyone has. That applies regardless of disability.

 

[teuchter]

It's like when someone raises the fact that their elderly neighbour's drive to the supermarket now takes 10 minutes longer, and they ignore their other elderly neighbour who has no car and goes to the local shop with a trolley and has to negotiate multiple road crossings to get there.

 

[nagapie]

I was saying that a private car is a privilege which not everyone has. That applies regardless of disability.

Except that there is motability, a benefit, which allows you to get a car if you have severe physical or cognitive disabilities.

 

[BillRiver]

Except that there is motability, a benefit, which allows you to get a car if you have severe physical or cognitive disabilities.

But that's not free. Has to be paid for from qualifying allowance.
And as per all "benefits" many who should get, don't, in reality.

 

[nagapie]

But that's not free. Has to be paid for from qualifying allowance.
And as per all "benefits" many who should get, don't, in reality.

Doesn't mean you disparage those who do. You want more people to get it not a race to the bottom.
Most families I know could not manage without motability.

 

[BillRiver]

Doesn't mean you disparage those who do. You want more people to get it not a race to the bottom.
Most families I know could not manage without motability.

I don't disparage, I simply acknowledge another layer of inequality in our society.

Just as I acknowledge my privilege in still receiving benefits such as ESA and PIP, and my never having had to go to tribunal or appeal a decision on those due to the length of time I have been (and severity of impact on me of) living with the disabilities I live with, as compared to people currently navigating Universal Credit applications while disabled. I had a lot of help from a brilliant key worker in 2013, after years of living on Incapacity Benefits (£45ish a week) I have been comfortably off ever since. Not all disabled people are in my current position.

 

[alex_]

As good as said it. First part of post was saying it will lead to possibly more abuse of the system in that posters opinion.

So in your view making blue badges more desirable won’t increase occurrences of blue badge fraud ?

Alex

Which incidentally is rare but does happen
Lambeth Council staff guilty of disabled badge fraud
700 prosecutions in 15 years in Lambeth - Tackling Blue Badge Fraud - a good practice guide | London Councils

 

[nagapie]

So in your view making blue badges more desirable won’t increase occurrences of blue badge fraud ?

Alex

Which incidentally is rare but does happen
Lambeth Council staff guilty of disabled badge fraud
700 prosecutions in 15 years in Lambeth - Tackling Blue Badge Fraud - a good practice guide | London Councils

Red herring. You could find similar stats on any benefit. Doesn't mean you restrict when needed.

 

[teuchter]

Except that there is motability, a benefit, which allows you to get a car if you have severe physical or cognitive disabilities.

And if your disabilities mean you aren't able or allowed to drive?

 

[nagapie]

I don't disparage, I simply acknowledge another layer of inequality in our society.

Just as I acknowledge my privilege in still receiving benefits such as ESA and PIP, and my never having had to go to tribunal or appeal a decision on those due to the length of time I have been (and severity of impact on me of) living with the disabilities I live with, as compared to people currently navigating Universal Credit applications while disabled. I had a lot of help from a brilliant key worker in 2013, after years of living on Incapacity Benefits (£45ish a week) I have been comfortably off ever since. Not all disabled people are in my current position.

But I don't think it's relevant to this conversation. Everyone should have access to what you have or more. It's not the same as say bankers Vs nurses.

 

[nagapie]

And if your disabilities mean you aren't able or allowed to drive?

You rely on carers or transport that drive or face isolation.
Also a non point as giving blue badge access will not significantly impact on the business of the LTNs.

 

[Gramsci]

I was saying that a private car is a privilege which not everyone has. That applies regardless of disability.

No you didn't. You said:

disabled people who have the privilege of private car access.

 

[Gramsci]

Many disabled people need cars and yet don't have one. So in that sense those who need one and have one are privileged over those disabled people who need but don't have.

It doesn't mean both groups of disabled people aren't massively oppressed in myriad ways.

Its this that nagapie has been up against.

Using the word "privilege" in context of discussing rights of disabled people is just taken as OK.

I'm not having a particular go at Teuchter here. Its just an example of how its been posted about here. The general tone on this thread.

 

[Gramsci]

So in your view making blue badges more desirable won’t increase occurrences of blue badge fraud ?

Alex

Which incidentally is rare but does happen
Lambeth Council staff guilty of disabled badge fraud
700 prosecutions in 15 years in Lambeth - Tackling Blue Badge Fraud - a good practice guide | London Councils

I'm sometimes thinking on here am I on Urban75?

Sounds like the kind of benefits bashing one gets from Tories and sections of Labour Party.

Its the kind of outlook that has led to restriction of benefits and harder tests to get them.

Basically my view is that this is very unequal society. "Benefits" are way to even it up very slightly.

 

[alex_]

Red herring. You could find similar stats on any benefit. Doesn't mean you restrict when needed.

ive not advocated this - and in post 4,271
I said Lambeth should exempt blue badge holders from LTZs

Alex

 

[nagapie]

ive not advocated this - and in post 4,271
I said Lambeth should exempt blue badge holders from LTZs

Alex

Then why bother to wade in when someone suggests limiting blue badge access, like Ealing, and putting forward a tiny amount of fraud as a reason not to.

 

[alex_]

Then why bother to wade in when someone suggests limiting blue badge access, like Ealing, and putting forward a tiny amount of fraud as a reason not to.

I’m saying they should be used, but Acknowledging that fraud does occur doesn’t say you shouldn’t extend its usage.

pretending systems are perfect means you don’t improve them, which makes them easier to abolish.

Alex

 

[teuchter]

A sort-of interesting comment from a builder this afternoon, saying that the current "traffic situation" has made them decide that they are going to start focusing on doing jobs that are local (Brixton/Streatham) rather than all over London.

It's not that uncommon for small builders to have jobs on the go in various parts of London, which means a lot of shuttling around in vans, and/or lengthy journeys at the beginning and end of each day.

If the current arrangements mean that people increasingly look for more local work then I can't see that this is a bad thing. It doesn't really make sense for someone based in Enfield to be doing a loft conversion in Lambeth... and vice versa. It means a load of unnecessary vehicle journeys and wasted time. It's these kinds of changes in habit that allow the "traffic evaporation" that some refuse to believe in, happen. It doesn't happen instantly which is why you have to give things time.

 

[alex_]

A sort-of interesting comment from a builder this afternoon, saying that the current "traffic situation" has made them decide that they are going to start focusing on doing jobs that are local (Brixton/Streatham) rather than all over London.

It's not that uncommon for small builders to have jobs on the go in various parts of London, which means a lot of shuttling around in vans, and/or lengthy journeys at the beginning and end of each day.

If the current arrangements mean that people increasingly look for more local work then I can't see that this is a bad thing. It doesn't really make sense for someone based in Enfield to be doing a loft conversion in Lambeth... and vice versa. It means a load of unnecessary vehicle journeys and wasted time. It's these kinds of changes in habit that allow the "traffic evaporation" that some refuse to believe in, happen. It doesn't happen instantly which is why you have to give things time.

another example of this would be couriers adjusting their delivery routes to make then more compact - how many times have you seen 3 different Amazon guys on the same street at the same time ?