Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[madolesance]

I see Black Cabs LTDA have commented that Lambeth Council should allow them as part of public transport system to be able to use bus gates and have free access to LTNs.

This sounds sensible suggestion to me. And I think should apply to all cab drivers such as Uber.

They all are part of public transport network.

If people are to be discouraged from car ownership other options should be freely available. Including private hire.

They really are not part of the 'public transport system'. The London public transport system is funded by TFL and provides subsidised transport, where as Black cabs, Uber, Mini cabs are allowed to operate for profit and gain. Make them pay to use 'Bus Gates and Ltn's'. Why should they get access for free?

 

[Gramsci]

They really are not part of the 'public transport system'. The London public transport system is funded by TFL and provides subsidised transport, where as Black cabs, Uber, Mini cabs are allowed to operate for profit and gain. Make them pay to use 'Bus Gates and Ltn's'. Why should they get access for free?

Forgive me but I thought that buses had been privatised some years ago?

Or did I get that wrong and buses are publicly owned?

 

[Gramsci]

They really are not part of the 'public transport system'. The London public transport system is funded by TFL and provides subsidised transport, where as Black cabs, Uber, Mini cabs are allowed to operate for profit and gain. Make them pay to use 'Bus Gates and Ltn's'. Why should they get access for free?

Who runs your bus

Find out who runs your bus, contact details of bus operators in London

tfl.gov.uk

So which of these is non profit making?

Maybe some of the bus companies do not operate under profit and gain. Let me know please.

 

[sparkybird]

They really are not part of the 'public transport system'. The London public transport system is funded by TFL and provides subsidised transport, where as Black cabs, Uber, Mini cabs are allowed to operate for profit and gain. Make them pay to use 'Bus Gates and Ltn's'. Why should they get access for free?

Sure black cabs and private taxis are not 'public' transport in that sense, but people do use them as such for example if the public transport is not an option for them eg disabled, or if the transport links are not accessible. I also think that it might help quell the opposition anger a little if they felt they had won a concession. Just my two pennyworth. Black cabs are not that numerous anyway and likely to be shrinking in number.

 

[BillRiver]

I'd like to see proper funding provided so that any one who can't ride a standard bike due to disabilities gets an accessible/adapted bike or trike automatically, and if that wouldn't work for them then a mobility scooter.
With training and support given to help them get confident using them.
There are some amazing adapted/accessible bikes and trikes on the market but they're out of reach for most disabled people and many don't realise they're even an option.
Independent active travel should be available for everyone.
A lot of the objections to road filters would disappear if this was rolled out properly.

 

[Gramsci]

They really are not part of the 'public transport system'. The London public transport system is funded by TFL and provides subsidised transport, where as Black cabs, Uber, Mini cabs are allowed to operate for profit and gain. Make them pay to use 'Bus Gates and Ltn's'. Why should they get access for free?

More on your naive view that Black Cabs are just working for profit and gains unlike say buses.

Arriva funnily enough is owned by German state owned transport company. So profit and gains go to Germany.

Arriva

weownit.org.uk

This gives list of shit services by Arriva.

 

[Gramsci]

Lets just kick the working class self employed black cab driver or mini cab driver and assume big companies who make profit subsidised by state handouts are part of "public" transport. Making profit with public handouts.

 

[snowy_again]

This is a few years old but things haven’t changed much : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7294746.

In fact recent user reviews in Euans guide are no better: Black Cabs London with Disabled Access - Euan's Guide

“I have had mixed experiences with London cabbies. Some of them refuse to stop for a wheelchair user. Some are delightfully friendly and helpful. Some ask intrusive questions about my reason for using a wheelchair. Some cabbies start the meter the moment you hail them, & then take a very long to to find the key to unlock and deploy the ramp, which means that you are being charged extra for being a wheelchair user, which is illegal - and prosecutions have been successfully brought against black cab drivers for this. Some treat me as if I'm an imbecile. Some have ex-military friends who are wheelchair users and are thoughtful, tactful & well tuned-in to the concept of disability.

Anything else you wish to tell us?
I hate using black cabs. I hate the dangerously steep and flimsy ramps, the risk of getting an unfriendly driver, or a driver who wants to rip me off by starting the meter too early. I hate having to crick my neck because there isn't enough headroom to get into the taxi. I hate leaving a taxi backwards down a steep ramp. I hate the prospect of being treated as an imbecile. If I can possibly avoid taking a taxi I will, even if the alternative is a long and tedious bus journey, or a tiring self-propel to my next destination.”

 

[snowy_again]

And I’m happy to see Manchester has taken back control of bus franchises

 

[Ol Nick]

I wish they'd put a bit more detailed explanation on the website, about why the additional measures and specifically what they are addressing.

Good that they are making modifications to try and deal with the problems though.

No doubt there will now be lots of people kicking off about the new filters.

It’s interesting that they are doing this before even repairing the vandalised Pulross Road and Concannon Road filters. They’ve been broken for ages now even when most other filters have been fixed.

 

[CH1]

And I’m happy to see Manchester has taken back control of bus franchises

I don't often feel moved by your posts - but as a Manchester resident in the seventies I could hardly agree more with this one.
The bizarre privatised system was utterly confusing for visitors. One day tickets for Stagecoach only and various other deals on other carriers. One route I went on apparently had three different operators simultaneously.
It was so absurd one wonders if this concocted by one of Friedrich Hayek's supporters on acid.

 

[nagapie]

Black cabs do a lot of the school runs for disabled children. Another part of the accessibility for people with disabilities that's been overlooked in order to hurry through the implementation.
It irks me how quickly they can bring in new measures but seem unable to address these issues.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Sure black cabs and private taxis are not 'public' transport in that sense, but people do use them as such for example if the public transport is not an option for them eg disabled, or if the transport links are not accessible. I also think that it might help quell the opposition anger a little if they felt they had won a concession. Just my two pennyworth. Black cabs are not that numerous anyway and likely to be shrinking in number.

Black cabs have been protesting against bike lanes etc for a long time, not just this. It is their livelihood but it’s a massively polluting, inefficient and expensive form of transport.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Black cabs do a lot of the school runs for disabled children. Another part of the accessibility for people with disabilities that's been overlooked in order to hurry through the implementation.
It irks me how quickly they can bring in new measures but seem unable to address these issues.

Are cabs actually blocked from going anywhere though? Or just like any other car being made to avoid rat runs and go a longer way around?

 

[teuchter]

No-one is blocked from anywhere.

I can see some argument for letting cabs through. I imagine the problem is that you can't just give them permissions for the LTN where their passenger lived like you potentially could for a resident. They'd be able to use all LTNs to do rat run routes on longer journeys. Maybe they would be few enough in number that it would be ok. But it would defeat the purpose of the LTNs somewhat if they ended up hosting streams of private hire vehicles making their way across london meaning that those who could afford to go everywhere by cab can get around much quicker than everyone else.

 

[nagapie]

Are cabs actually blocked from going anywhere though? Or just like any other car being made to avoid rat runs and go a longer way around?

They're forced into the now busy roads making journey times that are already long for disabled school kids longer. Many of these children struggle with these journeys already due to complex medical and learning needs.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

They're forced into the now busy roads making journey times that are already long for disabled school kids longer. Many of these children struggle with these journeys already due to complex medical and learning needs.

Which is an argument against all the people clogging the roads in cars when they don’t need to be, not LTN’s. If everyone who didn’t actually need to drive travelled by other means there wouldn’t be any bother for those who have the genuine need.

The problem is cars.

 

[nagapie]

Which is an argument against all the people clogging the roads in cars when they don’t need to be, not LTN’s. If everyone who didn’t actually need to drive travelled by other means there wouldn’t be any bother for those who have the genuine need.

The problem is cars.

Doesn't matter what the problem is, these vulnerable children should have been thought of and adjustments made to the scheme not be told tough shit till a society not of their making changes.

 

[sparkybird]

Which is an argument against all the people clogging the roads in cars when they don’t need to be, not LTN’s. If everyone who didn’t actually need to drive travelled by other means there wouldn’t be any bother for those who have the genuine need.

The problem is cars.

Or more accurately, the problem is the drivers of the cars not choosing to leave their car at home for a short trip that could easily be walked (or cycled) by them and therefore make more space on the roads for those who genuinely have no other option of getting around than by car/taxi/van

 

[edcraw]

Not sure black cabs using LTNs is much of a problem in South London

 

[Gramsci]

I did think main justification for LTNs in my area was to reduce through traffic. That is traffic pre pandemic going south to inner London and back again. Council were putting the argument that a lot of drivers use Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood area to go from south London to central London. They aren't visiting Brixton area just using it as transit area.

As that is the case put by Council (it was for LJ and is for the Railton one) I don't see how concessions for say car drivers in an LTN or people needing to use cabs who live in an LTN is an issue as such.

The main difficulty is how to do this technically.

I would have thought.

 

[teuchter]

The initially stated aims of the LTNs are still there, quoted and linked on the very first post of this thread.

 

[Gramsci]

The stated aim was also for full consultation and design of LTNs with local communities. That got binned.

 

[Gramsci]

Also remember bring told they would not happen if Council could not show support for them.

 

[teuchter]

Maybe we can set a new record for the number of times the same argument can go round in circles on the one thread.

 

[nagapie]

Maybe we can set a new record for the number of times the same argument can go round in circles on the one thread.

But it didn't have to be this way. You could have had LTNs with proper consultation and recognition and implementation of strategies to iron out the problems.

 

[Gramsci]

Maybe we can set a new record for the number of times the same argument can go round in circles on the one thread.

No point really.

The way this Tory government and some Labour Councils has imposed LTNs on communities without consultation has divided communities.

I'm on one side and you are on another.

As nagapie says it didn't have to be this way.

Difference between me and you from the other side is that you are happy with this.

This further puts me off trying to engage with Council. The way LTNs have happened can be added to the list of other "consultations" by New Labour Lambeth. Libraries, estate regeneration, Hondo planning application.

 

[snowy_again]

This seems to be more about your opinion of Lambeth* than an opinion on a national programme to improve streets that has widespread public support (as per Ed’s earlier post on recent consultations, TfL consultation, govt consultation, charity consultation) and proven comparable global examples and trends.
*i’m not a fan of Lambeth, but this isn’t just a Lambeth scheme.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

They haven’t “divided communities”, they’ve given an overly vocal minority something to whinge about.

 

[Gramsci]

This seems to be more about your opinion of Lambeth* than an opinion on a national programme to improve streets that has widespread public support (as per Ed’s earlier post on recent consultations, TfL consultation, govt consultation, charity consultation) and proven comparable global examples and trends.
*i’m not a fan of Lambeth, but this isn’t just a Lambeth scheme.

I specifically said in my post it was not just a Lambeth scheme. Its coming from this Tory government.

I know you are trying to make out I'm being unreasonable here. And trying to personalise it as well.

The promised consultation on the Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood stopped due to pandemic. That is the thread topic.

This Council decided to use pandemic to push through this scheme.

Its caused a lot of opposition which you have portrayed as right wing and racist.

Your view of Cabbies, and I know a few Cabbies, is gross generalisation.

I think you need to re read what I actually said. Rather than trying to make out this is me being unreasonable.