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I don't believe there are any LTNs in Thornton Ward, where she is reported as having gone missing (well last I looked at the news anyway).
Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
I don't believe there are any LTNs in Thornton Ward, where she is reported as having gone missing (well last I looked at the news anyway).
editor
hiraethified
You know what? I'm broadly in support of LTNs - although I think Lambeth have done a really shit job of introducing these - but what is increasingly winding me up is the way that the concerns of anyone living on streets that have unequivocally suffered an increase in traffic are just being brushed aside.
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
This appeared on Twitter earlier this evening from One Lambeth Justice - "Community run account supporting Lambeth residents & businesses against the social injustice of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) including the legal campaign."
Has the sign been Photoshopped by a professional?
Or has it really appeared outside Brixton tube?
I wouldn't have thought the anti-LTN campaigners are sufficiently well organised to fabricate fake signs and put them up in central Brixton?
EDITED TO ADD: They aren't - see replies below - this has been put up by a separate campaign group who are neither pro/anti LTN.
Has the sign been Photoshopped by a professional?
Or has it really appeared outside Brixton tube?
I wouldn't have thought the anti-LTN campaigners are sufficiently well organised to fabricate fake signs and put them up in central Brixton?
EDITED TO ADD: They aren't - see replies below - this has been put up by a separate campaign group who are neither pro/anti LTN.
Last edited:
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
This appeared on Twitter earlier this evening from One Lambeth Justice - "Community run account supporting Lambeth residents & businesses against the social injustice of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) including the legal campaign."
Has the sign been Photoshopped by a professional?
Or has it really appeared outside Brixton tube?
I wouldn't have thought the anti-LTN campaigners are sufficiently well organised to fabricate fake signs and put them up in central Brixton?
View attachment 258327
Details here:
Anti-pollution guerrilla road signs for Brixton
The 'guerilla signs' in English and Bengali Brixton is one of the places where young activists will mount a campaign of guerrilla road signs at pollution hotspots, warning that “breathing kills”. Choked Up, a group of Black and brown teens from South London, were spurred into action by the inq
brixtonblog.com
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Seeing as One Lambeth are so concerned about air pollution from motor traffic they no doubt support the campaign behind these signs. The campaign behind the signs wants motor traffic reduced across London and of course One Lambeth are totally on board with that. The only thing is that they don't want that reduction to be achieved by putting restrictions on motorists. So they've obviously got some other plans that they are nearly ready to make public. They need to get on with it though, otherwise folk might start to question the sincerity of their great concern about air pollution.
editor
hiraethified
This appeared on Twitter earlier this evening from One Lambeth Justice - "Community run account supporting Lambeth residents & businesses against the social injustice of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) including the legal campaign."
Has the sign been Photoshopped by a professional?
Or has it really appeared outside Brixton tube?
I wouldn't have thought the anti-LTN campaigners are sufficiently well organised to fabricate fake signs and put them up in central Brixton?
View attachment 258327
They've done a pretty good job of plastering the streets with their stickers...
I’m really not brushing it aside. It’s my biggest concern about them - the stated aim is to decrease traffic on all roads including boundary roads. I live next to the Sth Circular.
Gramsci asked if I was okay with it increasing and I said I’m not. But we need to know what is happening before we can make a long term decision.
Its not about making quiet enclaves - they need to reduce car dependency.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Details here:
Anti-pollution guerrilla road signs for Brixton
The 'guerilla signs' in English and Bengali Brixton is one of the places where young activists will mount a campaign of guerrilla road signs at pollution hotspots, warning that “breathing kills”. Choked Up, a group of Black and brown teens from South London, were spurred into action by the inq
The blog article says the campaign was spurred into action by death of Ella Kissi Dedrah.
I heard her mother speak on the Christo radio programme which gave news of Lambeth Cyclists issues with racism.
Her mother is sceptical about LTNs
Mum whose daughter may have died of pollution poisoning condemns toxin-cutting road measures
This is her take at the time of her local Council pandemic imposed LTN:
teuchter
je suis teuchter
This is an article about that campaign
www.theguardian.com
That seems entirely compatible with the principles behind LTNs.
And seeing as the "Choked up" campaign are retweeting the Railton LTN supporters account it wouldn't appear they are against LTNs.
London teenagers' road signs highlight effect of toxic air on people of colour
Choked Up group demands action from mayoral candidates to tackle traffic pollution
That seems entirely compatible with the principles behind LTNs.
And seeing as the "Choked up" campaign are retweeting the Railton LTN supporters account it wouldn't appear they are against LTNs.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I'm assuming it was via a FOI or something.
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
TFL. They are the traffic measurement cameras that are dotted around major roads.
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
Sorry but you're wrong or trying to downplay a serius feeling that many women have felt with these LTNs....and this was long before the Sarah Everard incident and - not feeling safe in LTNs due to the decrease in passing traffic. It resonates so much that people have no idea just how women feel going out. Having keys in your hands, trainers so you can run and having to text when you leave and get hoem. It literally is not a thought that occurs to most people that this is our life at night when just trying to go home at night.
Ferndale had a safety zoom a few days ago that has been scheduled for weeks. In it many members tried to provide the evidence of increased crime within the LTNs. Evidence was attempted to be handed over that showed the sheer increase (increases far in excess of non-LTN areas). Fell on deaf ears.
No wonder Onelambeth have resorted to 'open letters' because people are sick of not being listened to, councillors hiding behind email, zoom meetings where you are literally being given two minutes to cover a range of issues and then promptly cut of with a 'thanks we will take it into account'. THey even tried to present the stats from the area showing the increased level in crime. Nope, cut off.
2019 vs 2020.
Attachments
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Women should be able to walk home safely and there should be less pollution. Sarah Everard was abducted from a busy road. LTNs aren’t the problem, it’s male behaviour.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Not a good look for either side of the argument to be using this tragic case for posturing even before any details were known. It seems to me an insensitive original Tweet and an insensitive rebroadcasting of the tweet with no purpose but trying to score points. Some people seem so single minded that they can only see the world through one lens.
Entirely separately, as to whether any evidence exists about LTNs being or simply feeling less safe - are you aware of that information being actively sought or collated?
It is certainly something that people bring up. I've posted on here conversations with a couple in which the husband loves the LTN but the wife has stopped making even short journeys without the car after dark because she feels it is too quiet. She certainly did not strike me as unusually timid. Most regular posters know that Lambeth's chief advisers read this site and even participate in this thread and I wonder whether they have gone back to Lambeth and said - hmmm, there may be an issue here worth investigating: is it perception? is there some truth to it? either way, should we be exploring this and dealing with it?
Perhaps Lambeth and their advisers have given it their consideration and responsibly concluded it's not worth looking into? Or maybe it just does not fit the narrative and it is more convenient to decide that people with alternative agendas are making it up, or exceptionally sensitive and ignore it? Given the macho posting and posturing that LCC were involved in and Lambeth supported I suspect that the steamrollering of such views could easily happen.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the "traffic makes places safer" argument and was truly disappointed when Effra Road stayed open as a result of it (when Windrush was redesigned - I'd have actually made it busses only and moved some of the stops out of the centre which would have kept a lot of activity). Huge missed opportunity IMO. I'd expect that problems (perceived or real) will be very specific to every street. But it seems like a genuine issue for a proportion of people. I have no idea what proportion. I don't think that ignoring it or belittling it is smart policy.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Some interesting looking graphs there, which confirm my gut feelings.
But where do they come from?
I saw a Tweet the other day from Lambeth Council also makes me wonder:
The idea that Effra Road traffic is down by eighteen percent due ro the LTN seems odd. Effra Road is on the boundary and there seems no reason to believe it would be affected by the LTN Now if you said it was because of the lock-down I would believe it. Likewise Milkwood Road..
If these stats are significantly affected by the Covid lockdown a truthful statistician would point that out.
As it is these statistics were being bandied about using Megaphone diplomacy in the manner of Donald Trump - just as he was assuring us he had won the biggest landslide in history.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
If you read the report the numbers are adjusted to try and compensate for the Covid effect. This is done by comparing with a london-wide baseline.
If they had not made this adjustment then the numbers would appear better. In other words, they would show an even greater reduction.
If they had not made this adjustment then the numbers would appear better. In other words, they would show an even greater reduction.
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
I remember asking months here about how measurements can be taken without baselines. I. E Road counter strips put in after.
The reply was that TFL had a range of cameras.... But from everything I can read these cameras and their data were not used?
In fact it is these very cameras that are being used to counter the Lambeth report??
The reply was that TFL had a range of cameras.... But from everything I can read these cameras and their data were not used?
In fact it is these very cameras that are being used to counter the Lambeth report??
teuchter
je suis teuchter
As far as I understand, the road counter strips were put in for a while before, and a while after. So there are measurements from 2019 (before LTN) and measurements from 2020 (after LTN). When comparing them an adjustment is made to reflect the fact that traffic across London (including everywhere with no LTNs) was a little lower than 'normal' at the time of the 2020 measurements.
I'm not clear where this 'Scoot' data comes from, I haven't had time to look into it all. Those who are posting graphs etc on twitter don't seem to offer much in the way of explanation of what it is or what exactly they think it demonstrates. I've also seen screenshots of the air pollution data with claims that it demonstrates an LTN effect. I posted some of these air pollution graphs on this thread some time ago and tried to explain why I thought they showed no obvious evidence of a negative effect. I didn't get much response to that at the time.
I'm not clear where this 'Scoot' data comes from, I haven't had time to look into it all. Those who are posting graphs etc on twitter don't seem to offer much in the way of explanation of what it is or what exactly they think it demonstrates. I've also seen screenshots of the air pollution data with claims that it demonstrates an LTN effect. I posted some of these air pollution graphs on this thread some time ago and tried to explain why I thought they showed no obvious evidence of a negative effect. I didn't get much response to that at the time.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Regarding the night time risk stuff, I agree with Rushy it shouldn't be belittled. As far as I am aware it's nearly all about perceived risk rather than real risk, so mitigations should focus on that. If people feel at risk then you have to recognise that. I could go on about the various arguments there, but it may not be helpful for such arguments to come from a man and would be much better for them to be delivered by other women, and really this is something Lambeth should be putting some effort into, especially at this moment.
What women I speak to tell me is that they feel at risk (as pedestrians and cyclists) from traffic, have been harassed by men in cars as well as men on foot and also that they feel safest on streets with more pedestrians around, not streets with more traffic around. Of course, I am likely to be biased in who I speak to and in what I hear.
What women I speak to tell me is that they feel at risk (as pedestrians and cyclists) from traffic, have been harassed by men in cars as well as men on foot and also that they feel safest on streets with more pedestrians around, not streets with more traffic around. Of course, I am likely to be biased in who I speak to and in what I hear.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Jeanette Moo
Active Member
This was my point earlier in the topic. Lambeth had been FOId to get any and all traffic data or if they had employed any company to get some. They had nothing apart from some data relating to 20mph limits many years ago. Nothing in 2019. Nothing close to the LTNs.
Also these counters only appeared after the LTNs went in. There is no 'before' data.
It was said (on here, so likely an assumption) that the TFL cameras would be used. These are the Scoot cameras that sit in traffic lights and monitor major roads. They measure a wide range of details from congestion to flow of traffic. Solid data that has been monitored for years.
People have gone off and got the data by FOI.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Data from the Tulse Hill ltn is in:
beta.lambeth.gov.uk
Tulse Hill Low Traffic Neighbourhood Stage One Monitoring Report
A report on the impact of the Tulse Hill low traffic neighbourhood. This stage one report is part of our continuous monitoring of the scheme.
beta.lambeth.gov.uk
editor
hiraethified
Some interesting research:
redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com
Steady Support for for Low Traffic Neighbourhoods in London
The latest research by Redfield & Wilton Strategies finds that 47% of Londoners support the introduction of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods…
redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com
Here's the Fire Brigade's report on response times for 2020 includes the below quote:
"We haven’t yet noticed any impact on our attendance times due to the LTN schemes established in 2020; however, we will continue to monitor their impact at a local level. The attendance times to boroughs in inner London, where the majority of the LTNs seem to be, still remain quicker than those in outer London."
"We haven’t yet noticed any impact on our attendance times due to the LTN schemes established in 2020; however, we will continue to monitor their impact at a local level. The attendance times to boroughs in inner London, where the majority of the LTNs seem to be, still remain quicker than those in outer London."
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Update on the Ferndale ltn:
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I wish they'd put a bit more detailed explanation on the website, about why the additional measures and specifically what they are addressing.
Good that they are making modifications to try and deal with the problems though.
No doubt there will now be lots of people kicking off about the new filters.
Good that they are making modifications to try and deal with the problems though.
No doubt there will now be lots of people kicking off about the new filters.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Data from the Tulse Hill ltn is in:
Tulse Hill Low Traffic Neighbourhood Stage One Monitoring Report
A report on the impact of the Tulse Hill low traffic neighbourhood. This stage one report is part of our continuous monitoring of the scheme.
What I find distasteful about this is Council using pandemic to push through pet schemes without proper consultation.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I see Black Cabs LTDA have commented that Lambeth Council should allow them as part of public transport system to be able to use bus gates and have free access to LTNs.
This sounds sensible suggestion to me. And I think should apply to all cab drivers such as Uber.
They all are part of public transport network.
If people are to be discouraged from car ownership other options should be freely available. Including private hire.
This sounds sensible suggestion to me. And I think should apply to all cab drivers such as Uber.
They all are part of public transport network.
If people are to be discouraged from car ownership other options should be freely available. Including private hire.
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