Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[BigTom]

It's this chap who is compiling the spreadsheet I think - if you want to let him know.

https://twitter.com/iambrianjones

Cheers, I'm not on twitter but someone who is could send him a link to my post.

 

[Rushy]

Removal of subsidised travel for under 18s also has far more supporters than opposers. Does that mean that, if a majority people are OK Jack, the needs and concerns of those negatively impacted by the policy should be ignored?

 

[teuchter]

Removal of subsidised travel for under 18s also has far more supporters than opposers. Does that mean that, if a majority people are OK Jack, the needs and concerns of those negatively impacted by the policy should be ignored?

No, it doesn't. I await the next step of your argument.

 

[Jeanette Moo]

In the Guardian

Despite a loud opposing minority, low-traffic neighbourhoods are increasingly popular

YouGov poll found positive views on LTNs are three times higher than negative ones

www.theguardian.com

Apparently an article by someone who has had books published on how cycling will save the world? Pinch of salt me thinks.

Bike Nation

A revolution on the roads is approaching. Is it time for drivers to Give Way? Guardian news correspondent, Peter Walker, takes us on a journey around the world, exploring the varying attitudes to cycling on our highways. Visit the shining examples of Amsterdam and Copenhagen, where cycling...

books.google.co.uk

 

[Jeanette Moo]

Think the new ones are mapped here:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1m__ZQHAQOWGRu7-IZDP-gbV8Mr6ZfMOj&ll=51.48976696101502%2C-0.08817950000000074&z=10

Wow, great map!

 

[teuchter]

Apparently an article by someone who has had books published on how cycling will save the world? Pinch of salt me thinks.

Bike Nation

A revolution on the roads is approaching. Is it time for drivers to Give Way? Guardian news correspondent, Peter Walker, takes us on a journey around the world, exploring the varying attitudes to cycling on our highways. Visit the shining examples of Amsterdam and Copenhagen, where cycling...

books.google.co.uk

Those people at the Guardian sneakily trying to disguise this - by publishing it under the title of "bike blog".

 

[teuchter]

On One Lambeth they are concerned about the safety of the pillars separating off the bike lane.
Safety. They are concerned about safety. That's all.

Have the lazy council & mayor not taken them down they are death traps for cyclists,pedestrians and scootey users

 

[thebackrow]

On One Lambeth they are concerned about the safety of the pillars separating off the bike lane.
Safety. They are concerned about safety. That's all.

View attachment 235452

The entire white section is hi viz.

 

[alex_]

Removal of subsidised travel for under 18s also has far more supporters than opposers. Does that mean that, if a majority people are OK Jack, the needs and concerns of those negatively impacted by the policy should be ignored?

charging kids to get to school - sounds like a great idea for social inclusion.

 

[Brian Taylor]

What a surprise!

Stop Khan's Traffic Chaos

Stop Khan's traffic chaos.

action.shaunforlondon.uk

 

[ash]

Lovely thoughts from one Lambeth about Clare Holland:

 

[teuchter]

The latest thing on there seems to be that they just don't believe it's true that the majority of households in Lambeth/LTN areas don't own a car. That the numbers are being fiddled.

 

[Jesterburger]

The latest thing on there seems to be that they just don't believe it's true that the majority of households in Lambeth/LTN areas don't own a car. That the numbers are being fiddled.

I've had conversations with local antis trying to demonstrate that by example and they just refuse to even acknowledge - it 'feels wrong' to them.

On my street, one of the longest in the ward, most houses are divided into two or three flats, yet only have space for one car outside. Even if every space was full that would leave less than 50% of households with a car, and in fact they never all full anyway.

But they use 'every space in my street has a car outside' to mean 'virtually every household has a car'

 

[teuchter]

And it doesn't even take into account that a household having access to a car doesn't translate to each person in that household having access to a car at any point in time.

 

[alex_]

The latest thing on there seems to be that they just don't believe it's true that the majority of households in Lambeth/LTN areas don't own a car. That the numbers are being fiddled.

despite street level population numbers broken down by age being available online

Interesting Information for Ferndale Road, Lambeth, London, SW9 8BQ Postcode

View information about Ferndale Road, Lambeth, London, SW98BQ postcode, including population, age, housing, relationships, broadband, religion and employment

www.streetcheck.co.uk

How many people do they think are involved in this conspiracy and how long do they think it’s been in preparation ?

Of course it would be completely outrageous to question their intelligence.

 

[teuchter]

They seem to think the numbers won't be right because they are from nearly ten years ago.

As far as I'm aware, the trend has been for a decrease in car ownership. I guess we'll find out next year.

 

[teuchter]

Anyway, 40% is a majority now.

So 40% with cars is still the majority, coz 20% cyclists,20% public transport, 20% walkers, and don’t forget that even though 40% have a car the household members will have access to it

 

[alex_]

They seem to think the numbers won't be right because they are from nearly ten years ago.

When car ownership in nearly every inner London borough fell by more than 10%.

The number of cars registered in Lambeth appears to be about the same as 10 years ago

https://airdrive-secure.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/london/dataset/licensed-vehicles-type-0/2020-09-18T08%3A59%3A51/vehicles-licensed-type-borough.xls?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAJJDIMAIVZJDICKHA%2F20201025%2Feu-west-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20201025T153813Z&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Signature=18b08a04fe170726fb3aeb2e15e3ef9387eea1a331b23d768f8dae9ce657bf57&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host

 

[thebackrow]

Also puzzled. If lots of people own cars we should let them be allowed to drive them unhindered whatever the impact?

 

[Jeanette Moo]

Well this is why you can't win with the whole 'number of cars per household' fight and most people don't care.

If it's more than thought 'We need to force people out of the their cars that's too many!'

If it's less 'So few people have a car let's retake the roads'

 

[Gramsci]

If the facts show that inner london car ownership has fallen then that is another argument that inner london LTNs are about stopping through traffic and local people who still own cars should be able to move freely using ANPR technology.

As has been said before this is likely to get rid of most opposition.

 

[alex_]

If the facts show that inner london car ownership has fallen then that is another argument that inner london LTNs are about stopping through traffic and local people who still own cars should be able to move freely using ANPR technology.

As has been said before this is likely to get rid of most opposition.

yeah the taxi drivers and tories will be totally in favour then

 

[Gramsci]

yeah the taxi drivers and tories will be totally in favour then

I don't get what you mean.

The funding for LTNs comes from the Tories. Its Shapps and this Tory government that have started this.

Im sure Taxi drivers will not be keen.

But given what Ive seen from talking to locals affected and online lot of opposition would stop if this compromise was made.

 

[teuchter]

Well this is why you can't win with the whole 'number of cars per household' fight and most people don't care.

If it's more than thought 'We need to force people out of the their cars that's too many!'

If it's less 'So few people have a car let's retake the roads'

That's because whether there are more, or fewer, cars per household than estimated, we still need to reduce the number on the roads. It's the number on the roads, causing congestion and pollution and taking away space from other users that matters.

Also, the two statements you put in quotes above aren't incompatible with each other. The first is a necessary step in achieving the second.

 

[thebackrow]

If the facts show that inner london car ownership has fallen then that is another argument that inner london LTNs are about stopping through traffic and local people who still own cars should be able to move freely using ANPR technology.

As has been said before this is likely to get rid of most opposition.

Why does that change the fact that many of the trips that people who do still own cars are making have been shown to be short and possible to do by other means?

Your argument seems to be that we must not interfere with any of the current trips by local residents by car.

 

[sleaterkinney]

They want to be the majority because then it becomes anti-democratic if it’s a minority telling them what to do.

 

[paolo]

If the facts show that inner london car ownership has fallen then that is another argument that inner london LTNs are about stopping through traffic and local people who still own cars should be able to move freely using ANPR technology.

As has been said before this is likely to get rid of most opposition.

That does seem like a good compromise. It also means that there would be less reason implement internal (vehicle hostile) turn bans etc. That was a system that worked very well (and still does) to declog Soho, for example, but date from an age when ANPR didn’t exist.

I do believe in many of the bigger goals that teuchter and others are arguing for, but this compromise would be a move in the right direction at least.

Won’t be cheap though. Wonder what the cost of enclosing the Ferndale / Bedford / Acre Lane area would be. Capex and annual maintenance, vs penalty revenue?

 

[Gramsci]

Why does that change the fact that many of the trips that people who do still own cars are making have been shown to be short and possible to do by other means?

Your argument seems to be that we must not interfere with any of the current trips by local residents by car.

Railton Road LTN was sold by Council to residents. on fact that that most traffic was through traffic. By people who did not live in or need to visit the area. Same thing was said about Loughborough Junction road closures.

I don't have a problem with local residents being able to freely move in and out of an LTN they live in.

 

[Gramsci]

Given that the government might try and force Khan/ TFL to extend the congestion zone inner London LTNs might become partially redundant.

Interesting thst Green party oppose it and argue for road pricing instead. Something I think newbie has talked about earlier in this thread.

The extension to congestion charge zone is about the Tories wanting to make Khan/TFL suffer post pandemic. Its about revenue collection. As government won't fully support TFL losses due to pandemic. Despite expecting them to run a service.

Why the row over congestion charge expansion could tear London apart

No 10 and the mayor are at loggerheads over how to fill a hole in the capital’s transport budget. But is it a £2bn game of bluff?

www.theguardian.com

 

[alex_]

Given that the government might try and force Khan/ TFL to extend the congestion zone inner London LTNs might become partially redundant.

Interesting thst Green party oppose it and argue for road pricing instead. Something I think newbie has talked about earlier in this thread.

The extension to congestion charge zone is about the Tories wanting to make Khan/TFL suffer post pandemic. Its about revenue collection. As government won't fully support TFL losses due to pandemic. Despite expecting them to run a service.

Why the row over congestion charge expansion could tear London apart

No 10 and the mayor are at loggerheads over how to fill a hole in the capital’s transport budget. But is it a £2bn game of bluff?

www.theguardian.com

suspect the greens see it being done nationwide to support decarbonisation