Brixton Liveable Neighbourhood and LTN schemes - improvements for pedestrians and cyclists

[Brian Taylor]

Doesn't seem unreasonable to start the consultation from the time the fines start being issued given Shakespeare Road residents have been putting up signs and telling people they can drive through up to now.

That's strange as i haven't seen any signs telling people that they can drive through.
There were signs put up by somebody warning drivers that they'd get an immediate fine, but none that i know of advising anyone to just ignore them.
People did and still do stop and ask what the situation is. Any time i was asked i advised them what the current situation was as advised by Lambeths leaflet.

 

[Gramsci]

On Khan.

Few weeks back when North London Council put planters around shepherdness walk someone spray painted on them Sack Khan. Going back that way next day someone else had spray painted over this Sack Boris.

So some people do understand where this is coming from. Ultimately the Tory hard right.

 

[co-op]

So some people do understand where this is coming from. Ultimately the Tory hard right.

The tory hard right, well-known bastion of cycle routes.

 

[teuchter]

[slightly off topic]

On twitter and elsewhere it seems popular to post photos of the newly implemented 'emergency' cycle lane that runs between hyde park corner and marble arch. The photos are typically of loads of cars in a jam with a completely empty massive cycle lane.

These have actually almost made me think - maybe they overdid things a bit there. But yesterday I walked past it. The reality is that Park Lane is a massive highway, previously with 3 or 4 lanes in each direction available to motor traffic. And in fact what's been given over to the cycle way is one lane of those 6 to 8 lanes. The one that's been given over to cycles is for both directions. So, in each direction, cycles get a half-lane, while motor traffic gets between 2 and 4 lanes.

There weren't loads of cyclists using it yesterday - there were some but not loads. But the road wasn't actually all that busy either.
I wonder whether one reason it's not highly popular is that a middle portion of it gets diverted off the road altogether and onto part of the pavement. That section never appears in the angry twitter posts.

 

[Winot]

I’ve cycled that a few times. There is a parallel cycle path through the park. However this is (a) shared use and therefore not ideal and (b) only usable when the park is open.

The pavement section is a pain but I’ve not noticed any animosity from pedestrians, or cyclists going too fast.

The north end of the Park Lane cycle route is a disaster - you are decanted onto a busy pedestrian crossing on a sharp bend with no space for pedestrians and cyclists to share. By contrast the park route links nicely with Stanhope Place which allows access to the roads north of the park via a dedicated cyclists crossing.

 

[Winot]

New survey results inc. broad LTN support. Sample of 2000 respondents.

Polling exclusive: Most Londoners blame Covid or government for TfL financial woes, back LTNs and are satisfied with Sadiq Khan - OnLondon

More than twice as many Londoners hold either Covid-19 or the government mostly to blame for Transport for London’s financial difficulties than either Sadiq Khan or Transport for London combined, according to new opinion poll findings provided exclusively to On London. Asked to select from the...

www.onlondon.co.uk

 

[Rushy]

New survey results inc. broad LTN support. Sample of 2000 respondents.

Polling exclusive: Most Londoners blame Covid or government for TfL financial woes, back LTNs and are satisfied with Sadiq Khan - OnLondon

More than twice as many Londoners hold either Covid-19 or the government mostly to blame for Transport for London’s financial difficulties than either Sadiq Khan or Transport for London combined, according to new opinion poll findings provided exclusively to On London. Asked to select from the...

www.onlondon.co.uk

Only skimmed this article. Interesting that when talking of suspending free travel for under 18s, the small "strongly opposed" figure was interpreted as meaning "the issue is of particular concern to groups of Londoners that would feel its effects most strongly." No such sympathetic interpretation on the LTNs.

I would not know how to answer as I would not wish to be against traffic measures but would not wish to support the current chaotic implementation.

Only 29% believe that they have been effective in reducing overall traffic.

On Kahn, a friend of mine at TfL involved with the original LTN concept has worked directly with Livingstone, Boris and Kahn at City Hall. Said Boris and Livingstone were great to work under - didn't always agree with them but both were clear and decisive. Said Kahn is frustrating because he is indecisive and lacks leadership and direction. I don't really know enough about him to have formed any opinion but I am constantly surprised by his low profile.

 

[Gramsci]

The tory hard right, well-known bastion of cycle routes.

Yes. Boris for example.

 

[Rushy]

Doesn't seem unreasonable to start the consultation from the time the fines start being issued given Shakespeare Road residents have been putting up signs and telling people they can drive through up to now.

Fines have been issued since July. I am quite certain about this because a complete stranger approached me whilst I was having a coffee at that little vegan place on the corner of Dulwich Road and Brixton Water Lane and asked me to explain the reason for his fine (his English was not great) which was for passing through one of the Railton LTN modal gates. Quite random, I know. Lambeth wrote to me recently confirming that fines can be issued on all gates.

Nevertheless, most of the gates are yet to be monitored 24hrs. People drive through all of them regardless of whether residents occasionally place a contrarian sign on the Shakespeare gate (you seem to have a particular squabble going on with some people in the vicinity of that gate). Lambeth skipped the consultation phase which they had originally planned for before implementation because of The Emergency. But in their hurry their implementation was so half arsed that they are not even prepared for residents to formally comment on it. And there is still no date for when the half arsed-ness of the implementation will have been dealt with.

 

[teuchter]

I’ve cycled that a few times. There is a parallel cycle path through the park. However this is (a) shared use and therefore not ideal and (b) only usable when the park is open.

And has frequent speed bumps - which is fair enough for a shared use route - but makes it unattractive to anyone who wants to use it for regular journeys.

 

[Gramsci]

New survey results inc. broad LTN support. Sample of 2000 respondents.

Polling exclusive: Most Londoners blame Covid or government for TfL financial woes, back LTNs and are satisfied with Sadiq Khan - OnLondon

More than twice as many Londoners hold either Covid-19 or the government mostly to blame for Transport for London’s financial difficulties than either Sadiq Khan or Transport for London combined, according to new opinion poll findings provided exclusively to On London. Asked to select from the...

www.onlondon.co.uk

The onlondon article says this on LTNs:

New LTNs were part of another condition of the government’s first TfL bailout, which said a minimum of £55 million should be spent on them and other Active Travel interventions.

Not sure how accurate this is.

Would explain the sudden appearance of bike lanes across central London even though numbers of people around City and West End has dropped. City is empty of traffic. Compared to pre pandemic.

 

[teuchter]

This morning's wisdom on One Lambeth

When the main roads are busier, they will start charging us for using the roads. You know, I kind of wish we could all just sell our cars. I use my car as my job, but I would love to see their little faces when no cars are sold, no car insurance, no servicing, no spare parts, and a 1.2 mile queue at the bus stop, everyone late, costing the economy billions. Maybe then they would realise that the car is a vital part of our lives and brings in billions every single year in revenue.

 

[co-op]

[slightly off topic]

On twitter and elsewhere it seems popular to post photos of the newly implemented 'emergency' cycle lane that runs between hyde park corner and marble arch. The photos are typically of loads of cars in a jam with a completely empty massive cycle lane.

This is obviously a descendant of the bus lane version which I remember well when these first started appearing. "I was sitting in a solid traffic jam for [blah blah] hours next to a bus lane which was completely empty!". To which of course the answer is 'that's right, that's what a functioning bus lane looks like' - somehow in the fevered carhead brain, a bus lane is only working if it's jammed nose-to-tail with non-moving buses, which seems a rather spectacular missing of the point of a bus lane, i.e. buses running smoothly and on time, but I still hear this line trotted out occasionally.

I get that bike lanes are a bit different, they are not time-tabled, nor as liable to jam up so they 'ought' to have cyclists in them, but half the point of bike lanes is to allow people to cycle safely, not to force anyone to go cycling, it's literally about providing the option to people who want it.

Anyway, Park Lane from Marble Arch to HPC - that has always been one monster of a traffic jam anytime during the day, absolutely always and I must have first used it in the early 1980s. The idea that jams there are 'caused' by cycle lanes is absurd.

 

[editor]

OneLambeth update

We have now appointed a Legal Team for advice on the legality of Lambeth LTNs and viability of pursuing Judicial Review or other Avenues for the whole of Lambeth against the council.

Please email us with:

• Photographs
• Testimonials
• FOIs
• Correspondence,

To - Info@onelambeth.co.uk

We will store information securely for the legal team to review. If you have large videos please let us know so we can sort secure transfer.

Example testimonial

Name:
How the LTN has affected you:
Any details about you (elderly, disabled, etc):

 

[teuchter]

This is quite interesting (maybe, to some people)



An attempt to log all the LTNs everywhere. Including "historic" ones that may have been in place for years/decades already.

Link

 

[snowy_again]

Think the new ones are mapped here:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1m__ZQHAQOWGRu7-IZDP-gbV8Mr6ZfMOj&ll=51.48976696101502%2C-0.08817950000000074&z=10

 

[alex_]

The proposed congestion charge changes make all of this ltn thing quite redundant dont they?

Alex

 

[teuchter]

The proposed congestion charge changes make all of this ltn thing quite redundant dont they?

Alex

Depends a bit on whether it would have an exemption or discount for those living within the zone. And it also depends whether it would significantly reduce traffic, or just mean that the traffic was made up of people who could afford the charge.

 

[Jesterburger]

The proposed congestion charge changes make all of this ltn thing quite redundant dont they?

If they happen I think it complements the LTNs, as it further disincentivises driving and may help with main road congestion

 

[thebackrow]

The proposed congestion charge changes make all of this ltn thing quite redundant dont they?
Alex

not at all. the reason LTNs are necessary is because SatNavs shortcut traffic through minor roads even when the main roads are not busy. I suspect it will distract all the pro-car lobby who'll have a bigger battle to fight than LTNs and it would likely negate the arguments about main road's 'not being able to cope'

 

[sleaterkinney]

The proposed congestion charge changes make all of this ltn thing quite redundant dont they?

Alex

It's just so the tories can get at Sadiq Khan.

 

[alex_]

It's just so the tories can get at Sadiq Khan.

yup proper trump politics

 

[alex_]

not at all. the reason LTNs are necessary is because SatNavs shortcut traffic through minor roads even when the main roads are not busy. I suspect it will distract all the pro-car lobby who'll have a bigger battle to fight than LTNs and it would likely negate the arguments about main road's 'not being able to cope'

It’ll move a lot of traffic out of the bits of Lambeth North of the south circular.

Alex

 

[teuchter]

Despite a loud opposing minority, low-traffic neighbourhoods are increasingly popular

YouGov poll found positive views on LTNs are three times higher than negative ones

www.theguardian.com

 

[BigTom]

This is quite interesting (maybe, to some people)



An attempt to log all the LTNs everywhere. Including "historic" ones that may have been in place for years/decades already.

Link

Birmingham ones are not right.
I dunno why Kings Heath is split in 4 but these are now implemented or just waiting to have bollards put in on some of the blocks. The implentation date is not really correct, they put in the signs and planters a few weeks back but bollards didn't go in until last week so all the drivers were ignoring it.
Moseley ones are also in place.
Lozells is more than planned, it is definitely happening but I don't know when
Bournville and Castle Vale are both definitely happening but again I don't know when

Have your say

Birmingham City Council are taking steps to make cycling and walking (otherwise known as 'Active Travel') safer and easier in Birmingham.

covidmeasuresbirmingham.commonplace.is

Is the consultation page in case anyone wants to look at this. Just noticed Kings Heath one has over 2,000 comments... I guess the others haven't been put in place yet.

I live in Kings Heath and facebook has been pretty much the same kind of conversations as you've been having in Brixton (based on my reading of this thread), except there's no "one lambeth" equivalent here (yet). We'll see what happens over the 6 month trial.

 

[teuchter]

Birmingham ones are not right.
I dunno why Kings Heath is split in 4 but these are now implemented or just waiting to have bollards put in on some of the blocks. The implentation date is not really correct, they put in the signs and planters a few weeks back but bollards didn't go in until last week so all the drivers were ignoring it.
Moseley ones are also in place.
Lozells is more than planned, it is definitely happening but I don't know when
Bournville and Castle Vale are both definitely happening but again I don't know when

It's this chap who is compiling the spreadsheet I think - if you want to let him know.

https://twitter.com/iambrianjones

 

[teuchter]

One Lambeth's fundraiser for legal action:

OneLambeth

A resident-led campaign shining a light on 'low traffic neighbourhoods' (LTNs) in Lambeth.

www.crowdfunder.co.uk

They've got about £1700 on there so far.

Message today:

Thank you to everyone who has kindly donated today towards the legal costs, it is truly appreciated!

Legal costs of £5340 for 'advice from the solicitor and barrister' which is for the whole of Lambeth. This may be sufficient to pressure the council. If not we will need further funds to continue legal proceedings.

Please note that the crowdfund is running for a further 14 days and funds cannot be used until then.
We are against the clock.
We still need £570 to get to our goal...anything you can donate will help!

That's accompanied by a direct paypal link. Not sure if they are saying they are £570 away from £5340?

Didn't someone say on here that a Judicial Review shouldn't cost anything - so are they attempting a different legal route?

 

[Pickman's model]

One Lambeth's fundraiser for legal action:

OneLambeth

A resident-led campaign shining a light on 'low traffic neighbourhoods' (LTNs) in Lambeth.

www.crowdfunder.co.uk

They've got about £1700 on there so far.

Message today:



That's accompanied by a direct paypal link. Not sure if they are saying they are £570 away from £5340?

Didn't someone say on here that a Judicial Review shouldn't cost anything - so are they attempting a different legal route?

Saying a jr should not cost anything is very different from saying it does not cost anything

 

[Rushy]

One Lambeth's fundraiser for legal action:

OneLambeth

A resident-led campaign shining a light on 'low traffic neighbourhoods' (LTNs) in Lambeth.

www.crowdfunder.co.uk

They've got about £1700 on there so far.

Message today:



That's accompanied by a direct paypal link. Not sure if they are saying they are £570 away from £5340?

Didn't someone say on here that a Judicial Review shouldn't cost anything - so are they attempting a different legal route?

The council will make it expensive by dragging its feet, not fully answering questions and refusing to engage meaningfully. It's pretty normal practice - but not what would be described as cooperative. Every letter sent can cost 1,000s. I have (very limited) experience of this from a JR in relation to park events. I don't know about legal aid - other than that we it was tricky to access. Whether you are on the side of the council in this particular matter or not, the obstacles to challenging decisions can be huge.

 

[editor]

In the Guardian

And amid the daily froth of sometimes entirely false stories about LTNs closing roads, or slowing emergency service response times, one thing is often forgotten: these schemes tend to be very popular.



This is shown by new YouGov polling, commissioned by Greenpeace and shared with the Guardian, which found that where people had opinions on LTNs, positive views were more than three times more prevalent than negative ones.

The nationwide polling, carried out earlier this month, found 26% of people said they strongly supported LTNs, and 31% would “tend” to. In contrast, 8% strongly opposed them, and the same number tended to. That left more than a quarter of people who either didn’t know, or were neutral.

Arguably even more notable was another element of the poll, where people were given a list of seven possible changes to local transport, and asked to pick the two they found most important.

While the most popular choice was fewer potholes, picked as one of the options by 48% of people, 21% wanted more cycle routes, and 34% opted for reduced road traffic. Just 8% supported extra roads being built.

Despite a loud opposing minority, low-traffic neighbourhoods are increasingly popular

YouGov poll found positive views on LTNs are three times higher than negative ones

www.theguardian.com