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[Ms T]

It was the law until 2008 that loaves of bread had to be sold in multiples of 400g. Now it's just the convention that a large loaf is 800g. Odd sizes are indeed available too.

A standard large loaf tin is a kilo. My loaves are 500g flour, 10g salt, 375g water, 75g starter.

 

[pbsmooth]

Boulangeries in France sell all kinds of bread, including loaves! Pain de campagne for example. Or pain aux noix.

They probably sell 95% baguettes. One side of my family is French. Does your experience differ?

 

[TopCat]

It was the law until 2008 that loaves of bread had to be sold in multiples of 400g. Now it's just the convention that a large loaf is 800g. Odd sizes are indeed available too.

The convention! A large sliced loaf from the supermarket is not just shy of a kilo.

 

[TopCat]

A standard large loaf tin is a kilo. My loaves are 500g flour, 10g salt, 375g water, 75g starter.

A lot of the water evaporates during baking.

 

[Ms T]

How much does a loaf cost you to make?

Depends on the flour. Sometimes it’s just Lidl/Aldi finest, sometimes I add in some Doves Farm rye or spelt (which has rocketed in price) or my favourite Wessex Mill. I also have no idea what it costs to heat the oven for an hour. Plus there’s my time.

As someone else said, home cooking is not really a fair comparison. I make food at home all the time for a fraction of what you’d pay in a restaurant.

 

[Ms T]

A lot of the water evaporates during baking.

Not really. I think my loaves are about 800g. I’m baking one tomorrow so will check!

 

[alex_]

I'm not against authentic artisan products, even though it is a word bandied around way too freely when gentrification rolls into town.

You are aren’t against artisans, but you are against them actually getting paid.

 

[Epona]

I don't think most people find bread that easy to make.

But they did back in the day.

If it is a skill that is being lost, that to me says we should be teaching it to people, not making it a posh thing that only people above a certain income bracket can afford to buy when made by someone else.

I mean all of my grandparents knew how to make bread, I bet most other people around the same age their grandparents or parents made bread, and some of us might have been lucky enough to have someone teach us how to do it. Most people can actually do it.

It has switched from being a basic survival skill to "artisan" - no it's not artisan to be able to make a loaf. If someone is making oh I don't know, stained glass, or jewellery, or pottery, that is artisan.

Making a loaf of bread is basic baking, not a specialist subject with specialist craft skills. We need to stop mystifying it, and maybe remind people how to make bread like everyone has done for centuries.

 

[editor]

You are aren’t against artisans, but you are against them actually getting paid.

Perhaps you could point me to the post where I actually said that?

 

[TopCat]

You are aren’t against artisans, but you are against them actually getting paid.

oh please

 

[Eric Jarvis]

Then keep it on show till a mug comes along. Hence brittle crusts and lost teeth.

Has anyone done research on how much is added on average to the price by simply labelling something as "artisan"? My guess would be that it is somewhere around 25% but I don't have concrete evidence to back it up.

 

[Ms T]

But they did back in the day.

If it is a skill that is being lost, that to me says we should be teaching it to people, not making it a posh thing that only people above a certain income bracket can afford to buy when made by someone else.

I mean all of my grandparents knew how to make bread, I bet most other people around the same age their grandparents or parents made bread, and some of us might have been lucky enough to have someone teach us how to do it. Most people can actually do it.

It has switched from being a basic survival skill to "artisan" - no it's not artisan to be able to make a loaf. If someone is making oh I don't know, stained glass, or jewellery, or pottery, that is artisan.

Making a loaf of bread is basic baking, not a specialist subject with specialist craft skills. We need to stop mystifying it, and maybe remind people how to make bread like everyone has done for centuries.

My grandparents didn’t make bread and were terrible cooks! My parents aren’t bad cooks but have never made bread. I think my Dad tried once but it was an inedible brick. Hendo’s mother never made bread. We are both in our fifties.

I agree it’s not that difficult but it is a skill which needs to be learned. I still haven’t quite nailed baguettes but I did online baking classes during lockdown and did learn a lot - even though I’d been making sourdough for several years.

 

[Elpenor]

£28 for a sandwich at Harrods

Harrods’ £28 sandwich: we find out if the taste matches the price tag

Luxury retailer’s wagyu beef butty is making waves for its expense – but what is it like to eat?

www.theguardian.com

Unclear if they use a £6 Brixton loaf for it

 

[editor]

£28 for a sandwich at Harrods

Don't go giving them ideas!

 

[BusLanes]

Suspect last family who made bread was WW2 era, due to the war and living a long way from any villages.

 

[TopCat]

I bake a lot of bread especially in the colder months. If the oven is on for something, make some dough.

I have also been skint enough back in the day to have to live off Lidl cheapest brown bread and peanut butter for weeks. I welcome a 50p loaf.

The first artisan bread I ever saw was at Broadway market twenty years ago. The locals openly laughed and pointed at the (then) three quid loaves.

Rinsing suckers is one thing. Suggesting that it’s normal to spend five quid up for a loaf is another.

 

[Jimbeau]

Just back from doing some chores in Herne Hill.

Today a large plain white sourdough loaf is £4.30 at Gail’s, £4.50 at Maya’s and £4.75 at Blackbird. More expensive speciality breads are available at all of those places too.

None of them claim to have artisans involved in the process, thankfully.

I cannot imagine that the same will hold true tomorrow when the Sunday market is in full swing.

 

[alex_]

Just back from doing some chores in Herne Hill.

Today a large plain white sourdough loaf is £4.30 at Gail’s, £4.50 at Maya’s and £4.75 at Blackbird. More expensive speciality breads are available at all of those places too.

None of them claim to have artisans involved in the process, thankfully.

I cannot imagine that the same will hold true tomorrow when the Sunday market is in full swing.

Did you witness exploitative artisans ripping off their victims by forcing them to buy five pound loaves ?

Alex

 

[T & P]

Most surreal food price argument anywhere on the boards since the Great Ice Cream Rift of 2018 in the Herne Hill thread

 

[Winot]

Most surreal food price argument anywhere on the boards since the Great Ice Cream Rift of 2018 in the Herne Hill thread

I remember the days when food price arguments were ten a penny

 

[newbie]

Meanwhile in a different part of the forest First Choice bakers has shut. Makes me sad.

 

[pbsmooth]

Just back from doing some chores in Herne Hill.

Today a large plain white sourdough loaf is £4.30 at Gail’s, £4.50 at Maya’s and £4.75 at Blackbird. More expensive speciality breads are available at all of those places too.

None of them claim to have artisans involved in the process, thankfully.

I cannot imagine that the same will hold true tomorrow when the Sunday market is in full swing.

You're forgetting Maya's customers have paid for it once already...

 

[Elpenor]

Most surreal food price argument anywhere on the boards since the Great Ice Cream Rift of 2018 in the Herne Hill thread

I think the chopped cabbage catechism wants a word

 

[Epona]

By all means gouge the rich for whatever they've got.
It's suggesting that a £4 to £6 loaf is in any way normal or to be expected and that's just the price things are that I object to.

Still prickling a bit tbh about the suggestion that if I make bread I should sell it - no, because I am not someone who wants to be that person, I'm not a capitalist or someone who wants to make money off of people especially over something as basic as a loaf of bread, I can't even contemplate doing that.

Saying to me "well why don't you sell that then and make some money" takes me back to a lot of the Thatcherite type arguments of the '80s.

I'd have more respect for someone offering a community oven where people could bring their own goods to be cooked, or baking lessons. Those things could be genuinely helpful to a community.

 

[Epona]

And just to be clear, when I say offering baking lessons I mean free or low cost sessions for local residents, not "for just £600 you can spend a weekend with us in the delightful surrounds of South London and we will teach you some artisan baking skills while you take in the atmosphere of a truly metropolitan environment"

In case that wasn't obvious from my previous posts on this thread

 

[Eric Jarvis]

I remember the days when food price arguments were ten a penny

I preferred to get the mixed bargain bag of food price arguments for 20p.

 

[ouirdeaux]

It has switched from being a basic survival skill to "artisan" - no it's not artisan to be able to make a loaf.

The first time I tried to make bread it didn't work. It was rock-hard, and my flatmate didn't help matters by running about shouting 'I'll do anything you want, just don't hit me with the bread!'. As I was in East Germany at the time, where flour cost more than bread, I gave up.

The second time I tried, a few years later, it wasn't quite as inedible, but not really worth eating.

The third time I tried, it worked. And all subsequent times. I think the problem was finding somewhere with the appropriate temperature for it to rise.

If I can do it, anyone can, because I'm generally crap at things like that. But it's a bonus that it has some sort of mystique to it. It means you can bask in undeserved glory, and maybe get out of other kitchen chores.

 

[Jimbeau]

By all means gouge the rich for whatever they've got.
It's suggesting that a £4 to £6 loaf is in any way normal or to be expected and that's just the price things are that I object to.

What I find hard about these kinds of debates is how hard is to discuss nuance.

We might bemoan the current high cost of food, but prices are what they are. Even a Mars bar or one-ounce bag of crisps is close to a quid now.

Non-industrially-made bread is in the £4 for a family loaf range, even at the major supermarkets. Tesco and Sainsbury’s currently charge £2 for a 400g small white sourdough loaf. It’s to be expected in the sense that buying it requires that amount of money. Is it to be accepted as reasonable? That’s different.

What’s even worse to me is industrially-made food marketed and priced as minimally-processed food. That’s where the real gouging happens - selling the promise of something healthier or hand-made but delivering the same old junk with inflated margins.

 

[alex_]

Non-industrially-made bread is in the £4 for a family loaf range, even at the major supermarkets. Tesco and Sainsbury’s currently charge £2 for a 400g small white sourdough loaf. It’s to be expected in the sense that buying it requires that amount of money. Is it to be accepted as reasonable? That’s different.

The 400g loaf at 2 pounds ( made in a factory ), is pretty much the same price as the 800g Brixton made loaf ( made by hand ).

Virtually every cost paid by the Brixton baker will be greater, yet it’s the lady in Brixton who is described as “ripping people off”, not tesco.

Alex

 

[editor]

Virtually every cost paid by the Brixton baker will be greater, yet it’s the lady in Brixton who is described as “ripping people off”, not tesco.

Alex

Except for the £12,000+ she got for doing nothing more than posting up a crowdfunding page. But just to be clear, you think £6 is a very reasonable price for a load of bread, yes?