Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Four times!
I salute your indefatigabitity.
Thanks. It’s necessary for the cloth eared sadly.
British Steel on the verge of collapse
- Thread starter steeplejack
- Start date
Thanks. It’s necessary for the cloth eared sadly.
Ming
I shot a man in Reno...
Thanks for bringing up Robert Mercer. He gets overlooked.
ska invita
back on the other side
Didnt Railtrack get nationalised?
8ball
Decolonise colons!
In effect, wasn’t it always?
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
No
National Rail is still a company, although a state-controlled not for profit one.
ska invita
back on the other side
Northern Rock got nationalised too didint it?
The northern rock and railtrack nationalisations seemed to be able to go ahead....is there something different about British Steel that makes it illegal?
The northern rock and railtrack nationalisations seemed to be able to go ahead....is there something different about British Steel that makes it illegal?
Any evidence for this or because Nigel said so ?
not-bono-ever
meh
Of course it can be effectively nationalised in nature if not in name. Free Market enthusiasts saying it would break intervention rules blah blah know fine well that it is a straw man position. It can be done! As the redskins once said
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
You are saying that at a time when demand for steel is rising and expected to rise further that British Steel is worth nothing?
Bailouts and subsidies ie the protection of industries by states fall foul of the EU state aid and competition rules. In 2016 the EU ordered the Italian and Belgian governments to recover the money they had paid to rescue failing steelmakers because they had breached state aid rules.
not-bono-ever
meh
Given Scunthorpe’s situation , the Massed oxbridge brains of The government could easily come up with an acceptable fudge that falls within the allowable criteria for support and still meets EU / WTO whatever convention.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Alex,
I’ll take this slowly as I think it’s necessary in your case:
1. Look at the amount British Steep sells domestically.
2. Look at the amount British steel sells to EU countries.
3. Work our which of the two amounts is the most important to the business.
4. Read again what Nigel has said - because he also thinks it’s ‘Brexit related’.
5. Read again what I said - I’d point you specifically to the bit where it says ‘this is not brexit related’
6. Sit down in a quiet place and think it through
ska invita
back on the other side
The39thStep ?
Anyone?
I gather Labour are calling for nationalisation... They seem to think it's possible?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
It is absolutely possible. I understand incidentally that Labour are calling for 'a public stake' rather than full blown public ownership. I presume that they are doing so because at this point what is unclear is if it could be nationalised and receive further public investment without breaking EU state aid funds.
ska invita
back on the other side
So is this (below) wrong?
Genuinely confused by this.
I presume railtrack and northern rock both received investment.
not-bono-ever
meh
Yes. Nationalisation under other names - a case can be argued to justify state involvement under existing rules and regs. It is not unusual on the continent, it’s just that the UKG have decided to use the various regulations are the justification to allow industry to collapse
ska invita
back on the other side
thats how it looks to me
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Italy and Belgium have both been fined by the EU for illegal payments to their respective steel industries.
I think the way to look at it is this. In respect of steel the EU is seeking to build a monopoly and therefore will act aggressively in applying state aid rules in case recipient steel mills outside of the strategy thrive thereby weakening support for the the single market project in respect of steel and in case these mills start to compete against their anointed ones.
In respect of banks and finance there was consensus that they were too important to fail. However, the EU has intervened in national decisions in respect of their banks - Greece was the most severe and visible intervention.
I think the way to look at it is this. In respect of steel the EU is seeking to build a monopoly and therefore will act aggressively in applying state aid rules in case recipient steel mills outside of the strategy thrive thereby weakening support for the the single market project in respect of steel and in case these mills start to compete against their anointed ones.
In respect of banks and finance there was consensus that they were too important to fail. However, the EU has intervened in national decisions in respect of their banks - Greece was the most severe and visible intervention.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Here is more info on the Tata/Thyssenkrupp merger - the EU's preferred monopoly vehicle for European steel: Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
not-bono-ever
meh
Example - A case can be argued for an impoverished region to have it’s declining industries supported as part of regional policy - either direct or indirect . This is one of several routes used successfully by others. The British railway system is mostly state owned - except not by the UKG. This is a conscious decision along the lines of the category D programme enacted by UKG in the 50s. It’s not even fair to call it managed decline, it’s letting private business asset strip until there is no viability left in the setup
not-bono-ever
meh
Am ranting here. Time to go for a walk
ska invita
back on the other side
I've never satisfactorily got an answer through my thick skull that EU rules really do make nationalisation impossible...it always sounds like its not as simple as that, this thread included. I'm coming at this with an open mind and reading with interest, but always left with a contradictory taste in my mouth that seems to suggest it can be done if the political will is there.
This is fairly idiot proof: What are the EU rules about state aid? ,written in response to this crisis
This is fairly idiot proof: What are the EU rules about state aid? ,written in response to this crisis
WouldBe
Dislicksick
So why can't network rail pay a 'deposit' for the orders it has with British steel'?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Further background on Greybull. The inquiry announced into them should be interesting. of course one key question, why does Government allow firms like this anywhere near key strategic industries, is unlikely to be covered. But at the very least the asset stripping model it exemplifies should come under greater scrutiny:
Greybull Capital: rescuer of distressed firms or vulture fund?
Greybull Capital: rescuer of distressed firms or vulture fund?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Not sure I follow this? BS hasn't gone bankrupt due to cashflow.
my rant button gets easily pressed these days. paying too much attention to febrile politics disquietens the mind.
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