Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
perhaps you could show your working
Brexit or Bremain - Urban votes
- Thread starter DrRingDing
- Start date
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh. you'd think that. but as you are someone who is interested in elections, i am surprised you do not recall that many elections since 1992 have actually been decided by very few people. see e.g. Election 2015: the 10 key marginals that will decide the election
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Well, we were talking about people voting against their own (class) interests....so, yes I expect the cohort might make make up a considerable proportion of the voting for the parties of capital.
newbie
undisambiguated
now come on. those marginals only 'decide' the outcome because results elsewhere are more predictable and cumulatively are rather evenly balanced. That doesn't make people who vote elsewhere irrelevant or mean that the same marginals would be decisive if all older voters stayed at home.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
that shrieking sound is the moving of the goalposts
newbie
undisambiguated
so on the one hand they've experienced "the hardships/deterioration of public services associated with the neoliberal turn" and on the other they're the ones who were instrumental in voting for it.
That's really all I'm saying, that the noise might be chickens coming home to roost.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Such a noise would presuppose that there had been no hegemonic mis-direction and that all those working class Brexiteers had purposely voted against their class interests?
newbie
undisambiguated
Sorry to be awkward but I'm not an academic- does "hegemonic mis-direction" mean the political argument that we're all subjected to and which sways our opinions? If so then of course it affects how people vote. if not, what does it mean?
Anyway, is class interest something that's both objective and unambiguous and, at the same time, that outweighs any consideration of personal opinion? If it is then yes, everybody w/c who has ever been persuaded by silver tongued mainstream politicians has indeed been conned. If, otoh, there's even the slightest possibility politics is a bit more complicated than that, then maybe, just maybe, every individual in the country has opinions of their own and the agency to act, and vote, based on those opinions.
Yossarian
⏭️
Looks like my non-ballot cancels out yours.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
If you're seeking to blame workers for voting against their own class interests, then it would seem logical to downplay notions of cultural hegemony.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Just read the words.
Our postal votes just arrived in this morning's post. redsquirrel you'll probably get yours in time too, but it would be worth a phonecall next week if they're any more tardy in your area.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's austrailia. In this day and age the idea of an on-line vote...oh yeah massive fraud and manipulation Don't want that..
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
I just got back from the island of Rhodes to see my friends and I was gobsmacked at the lack of workers rights they seem to enjoy there. My friend works 9 a.m. to 1 p.m. and then 5 p.m. to 9 p.m. 6 days per week for £500. They treat him appallingly for example not telling him when his day off is until it's his day off.
Some of the hotel staff on the island have not been paid for 3 months and can't complain or leave or they'll just be sacked. If they say anything they're threatened with the 2000 desperate workers waiting in the wings to get their shitty job...
If that's the European Union for you then I'm ashamed.
Some of the hotel staff on the island have not been paid for 3 months and can't complain or leave or they'll just be sacked. If they say anything they're threatened with the 2000 desperate workers waiting in the wings to get their shitty job...
If that's the European Union for you then I'm ashamed.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Ta for the info William, but as BA said I'm down under so I think think it's probably too late.
newbie
undisambiguated
I've read the words, they're written in the language of an academic or an ideologue. They communicate nothing to me.
newbie
undisambiguated
the special issue of Spiegel in English has been published. As I just ranted to my mate in Germany, being told what to do from that particular quarter isn't likely to go down too well.
Brexit: It's smarter to stay - SPIEGEL ONLINE
Brexit: It's smarter to stay - SPIEGEL ONLINE
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Nothing?
Oh.
newbie
undisambiguated
No.
You're welcome to carry on like that if you wish but IME when people start lobbing stuff like "hegemonic mis-direction" into general conversation it's often because they've hopelessly misjudged their audience or because they're covering up that they've no coherent point to put across. There are other possibilities but I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I may have mis-understood your point, but you appeared to be saying that the working class had no-one to blame, but themselves, for voting against their own (class) interest and bringing about the neoliberal processes that persuade them to vote Brexit.
hipipol
Peckham Wry
Can you translate for us oldies please?
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
Im not sure you did mr "hegemonic misdirection" (I want to see how many times that can appear on this thread) -I'd also be interested to know who the hell it was they should have been voting for in '97.......folks usually suggest labour but in this case should have been a spoiled ballot or whit?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Which word?
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
I was don't know - but the sight of wanker england fans kicking off in france has finally pushed me in the remain camp. The Referendum campaign has proved to be a massive boost for knuckle dragging xenophobic nationalism - a vote for brexit will only make that worse, ugly shit ahoy.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
How's a remain going to make it any better? Arguably EU neoliberalism has contributed also towards the resurgence of this stuff. Bit more complex than the referendum and dickhead England and Russian fans kicking off.
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Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Because brexit is the home of the xenophobes and a victory for them will be a massive boost and they will claim a democratic mandate for their shit. Can you imagine what it will be like on the night if they win? It'll be like the engerland posse in france - but out enmasse in every town centre - aggressive, pissed up fuck wits singing rule Britannia, god save the queen and waving st george's flags - and with an added topping of not so latent racism. And that will be the mainstream dominant poltical discourse in the uk.
Its the shame shit that milosovic stirred up in serbia, or that putins done in russia and that trumps doing in the US.
Fuck that.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I understand this for sure. But we're seeing unrest play out increasingly all over Europe (was reading something the other day about the far right as reaction to the neoliberal right). Sure we'll see crap like this which some will use the referendum as an excuse for such actions, but I don't think its really as a simple as the referendum. There's really serious problems within Europe that have been developing for a long while - regardless of whether the UK stays in or out.
