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Brexit or Bremain - Urban votes

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  • Bremain

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bluescreen said:
Convince me that the Brexiters *aren't* more committed to voting than the Remainers and I'll take all the stated voting intentions more seriously.
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anecdotal.so worth fuck all. but friends of friends on FB i.e. people who i left in my old home town and was glad to see the back of - are rabidly posting the vote issue. One twat has even posted up a snapshot of his online vote registration application. This cunt has never ever registered to vote. thats about 30 adult years. 30 fucking years.
 
not-bono-ever said:
anecdotal.so worth fuck all. but friends of friends on FB i.e. people who i left in my old home town and was glad to see the back of - are rabidly posting the vote issue. One twat has even posted up a snapshot of his online vote registration application. This cunt has never ever registered to vote. thats about 30 adult years. 30 fucking years.
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Deserves his hands chopping off.
 
weltweit said:
I don't know why you are having a go at me. Someone asked what Brexit policy on immigration was and as I have heard quite a number of brexiters talk about the Australian points system, I responded with that. I haven't referred to people on that list at all, I know there are many and varied reasons people have which persuade them to vote in or out.
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Which "brexiters"? Anyone on U75? And you did refer to people on that list when you rolled them into the same group and Vote Leave, Johnson, Field, UKIP etc.

More widely I'm "having a go at you" because you have consistently parroted the liberal pro-EU line - that it's good for our economy, that it's pro-freedom of movement (while ignoring the Turkey deal of course, I don't see much freedom of movement for Syrian refugees), all the usual bullshit summarised by these people. Whether they will vote Remain, Leave or abstain any socialist worth their salt would spit on your arguments.
 
redsquirrel said:
Which "brexiters"? Anyone on U75? And you did refer to people on that list when you rolled them into the same group and Vote Leave, Johnson, Field, UKIP etc.
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I don't see U75 brexiters as close to taking power. Whereas it is possible if there is an out vote that Johnson Gove Patel et al might take over from Cameron and then they would start implementing THEIR policies, not those of U75 out voters.
 
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We don't live in a dictatorship weltweit. The tories have a wafer-thin majority and have had to do a u-turn on almost everything they have proposed so far this parliament. Being out of the EU isn't going to change this. Brexit won't result in the sweep to power of a Fluffy-haired Fuhrer, imposing upon us a libertarian dystopia. What will happen, however, is that the bargaining power of employees might increase slightly due to there being a smaller reserve labour force.
 
Attended the 'People's PPE' event at Queen Mary's yesterday, (I know), and heard a speaker from the (WRP) 'Workers International (to rebuild the 4th International)' calling for a "Remain" vote from the class.

Britain is to vote on the question of staying in the EU in a referendum on 23rd June this year. Clearly neither staying nor leaving will in itself improve the conditions of the working class. So is it better for the working class of Britain to vote to leave the EU? After all, "the EU is a reactionary bosses' club and we must determinedly oppose it" – which is true – and having to leave the EU may destabilise not only the Tory government but the whole state, possibly leading to a breakup of the United Kingdom? This tactic is favoured by many on the extreme left.
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Or is it better to respect another indubitable fact: the EU is an expression of "the impossibility of the productive forces - science, technique and the organisation of labour - being contained within the narrow limits of the nation state and private ownership"? The working class cannot be in favour of pushing the productive forces back into the narrow limits of the nation state. This means that the working class of Britain has to vote to stay in the EU and push for reforms to make it fit for the working people. This tactic was adopted by the Labour Party led by Jeremy Corbyn.
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FWIW.​
 
weltweit said:
I don't see U75 brexiters as close to taking power. Whereas it is possible if there is an out vote that Johnson Gove Patel et al might take over from Cameron and then they would start implementing THEIR policies, not those of U75 out voters.
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Don't be so sure, we have the Workers' Bomb.

Then raise the Workers' Bomb on high,
Beneath its cloud we'll gladly die,
For though it sends us all to hell,
It kills the ruling class as well.
 
brogdale said:
Attended the 'People's PPE' event at Queen Mary's yesterday, (I know), and heard a speaker from the (WRP) 'Workers International (to rebuild the 4th International)' calling for a "Remain" vote from the class.




FWIW.​
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Glad to see that the Labour Left aren't shy about bringing in outside forces that will confer massive legitimacy on them... like the WRP. Honestly after watching the Vice documentary I am starting to think that there is a level of incompetence at play that I either had not realised or had intentionally ignored. I assumed that there was stuff going on in the background, that someone was creating a Jeff Weaver style social media strategy or something... but it doesn't look like that is what is happening.
 
ItWillNeverWork said:
We don't live in a dictatorship weltweit. The tories have a wafer-thin majority and have had to do a u-turn on almost everything they have proposed so far this parliament. Being out of the EU isn't going to change this. Brexit won't result in the sweep to power of a Fluffy-haired Fuhrer, imposing upon us a libertarian dystopia. What will happen, however, is that the bargaining power of employees might increase slightly due to there being a smaller reserve labour force.
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You are of course right about the tories majority and it is a good point.
On the labour force, my worry is that an out vote will result in fewer jobs.
 
Also FWIW, being surrounded by (mostly) evangelical 'remainarian' Labour activists....their mood was not good. Many spoke of a very poor reaction from 'Labour voters' 'on the doorsteps', at best described as apathetic. There seemed to be a general feeling of fear & frustration from what were mainly London based activists.
 
brogdale said:
Also FWIW, being surrounded by (mostly) evangelical 'remainarian' Labour activists....their mood was not good. Many spoke of a very poor reaction from 'Labour voters' 'on the doorsteps', at best described as apathetic. There seemed to be a general feeling of fear & frustration from what were mainly London based activists.
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Yes but a lot of the remain people have worked themselves into an irrational frenzy, they genuinely think that June 24th is going to be an Indian partition style population transfer.
 
Remain supporters, and the Spanish government, have undoubtedly caused a lot of unnecessary distress to a lot of people by either outright saying or heavily implying that Britain leaving the EU would lead to mass deportations of Brits in Europe and of Europeans in Britain. That being said, I've talked to Leave supporters who think something similar will happen too and will be very disappointed when it doesn't happen if their side wins.

It all goes to show just how out of touch with reality both sides of the referendum are.
 
weltweit said:
You are of course right about the tories majority and it is a good point.
On the labour force, my worry is that an out vote will result in fewer jobs.
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Well it's fairly certain that a recession is on the cards, and that Brexit could bring it about sooner rather than later. But a recession is coming whether we remain in the EU or not, and in the long run our bargaining power is effected more by structural changes than the temporary ups and downs of the economy. Leaving the EU is one such structural change.
 
(yet more) Beyond irony...
The NHS would be as safe as a pet hamster in the presence of hungry python if Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Iain Duncan Smith rose to power following Brexit, Sir John Major has said.
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weltweit said:
I don't see U75 brexiters as close to taking power. Whereas it is possible if there is an out vote that Johnson Gove Patel et al might take over from Cameron and then they would start implementing THEIR policies, not those of U75 out voters.
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Sunday Politics did five minutes on how this administration is fucked no matter what, effectively a minority government either way.
 
ItWillNeverWork said:
We don't live in a dictatorship weltweit. The tories have a wafer-thin majority and have had to do a u-turn on almost everything they have proposed so far this parliament. Being out of the EU isn't going to change this. Brexit won't result in the sweep to power of a Fluffy-haired Fuhrer, imposing upon us a libertarian dystopia. What will happen, however, is that the bargaining power of employees might increase slightly due to there being a smaller reserve labour force.
Click to expand...

Except there won't be a smaller reserve labour force. We will have the whole world to draw in labour from. Bargaining power of workers will hit rock bottom if the nonsense economy contracts and Boris gets his stated aim of pruning the social chapter (what other 'red tape' is there really?).

It's true that no choice is offered between neo-liberalism and neo-liberalism, but it's indulgent to say nothing is at stake.

And the EU has absorbed seven figure + of migrants. They are not going to go to China or the US or Brazil. The EU's ability to stop being shit at it is important for them. If it just gets trashed, right now, no prospects other than the hardest of borders go up everywhere. And it's hard enough now.
 
ItWillNeverWork said:
Well it's fairly certain that a recession is on the cards, and that Brexit could bring it about sooner rather than later. But a recession is coming whether we remain in the EU or not, and in the long run our bargaining power is effected more by structural changes than the temporary ups and downs of the economy. Leaving the EU is one such structural change.
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Leaving the EU may be a "structural change" but you will have to go some to persuade me it's in anyone's best interests. And of course it depends what you mean when you say "leaving the EU" ..
 
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