Brexit or Bremain - Urban votes

[Stevlin]

The above makes you sound far too uncritically Brexit to be worth bothering with to be honest.

Too uncritical???? There are too options - No1 -remain, and No2 - stay in . Deciding on one out of two is merely a measure of weighing up the pros and cons of each option. I have based my choice on the facts - not scaremongering assumptions -

I only asked how successful you thought your campaign's leadership was being so far.

And I asked you to illustrate those 'outrageous lies' that you accuse the Brexiters of making.
Why the hell should we pay a fortune to access a market that sells more to us than we do to them?- as well as ceding legal sovereignty

 

[weltweit]

Too uncritical???? There are too options - No1 -remain, and No2 - stay in . ..

I don't think you mean that somehow

 

[Santino]

The above makes you sound far too uncritically Brexit to be worth bothering with to be honest.

I only asked how successful you thought your campaign's leadership was being so far.

How successful has your campaign's leadership been?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Seems to me it's mostly:

Liberal left = remain.
Radical left = exit, abstain.

 

[gosub]

What a load of crap!!

Unfortunately, I've got a busy month. Hopefully the penny will drop at some stage.

 

[ViolentPanda]

...plus mostly Asian Turkey...

Wholly inaccurate.
Mostly Eurasian, which means something entirely different. To distinguish the "Asian" part at the expense of the "Euro" part is at best disingenuous and/or ignorant

 

[ViolentPanda]

OK clever clogs - now tell us why the argument is 'silly'. We are IN the EU, which means we CANNOT spend the 'same amount' AND buy those cancer drugs - but not everybody supports Brexit do they?

You'd do better to ask yourself - if it's true - why the British government is borrowing money to pay its EU dues.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Its 3 billion a year. it was 3 billion when Eustace tried telling them they'd be better off coz we'd have 2 billion a year to give them and it was still 3 billion when you spunked the lot on cancer drugs with your numbers.


Me, not so happy with the Leave campaign.

I'd be happier with the "leave" campaign and the "remain" campaign if they actually engaged with impacts on "normal people" beyond fictional sums of money being made available or unavailable.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Affordability doesn't come into it. If we can afford to subsidise the EU, then clearly, outside of the EU we could afford to spend that EU subsidy on cancer drugs. That appears to me to be simple enough to understand. You are entitled to vote whichever way you want - but if you are that easily swayed, I wonder what the main reasons were that caused you to favour leaving in the first place!

Your second sentence is circular logic.

 

[ViolentPanda]

So what? We shouldn't be paying anything at all!! It is trading with Europe from which we derive benefit....not being members of the EU!! - and Norway are far more wealthier than we are per capita - and gain far for from their trade with the EU that the little that they pay in membership fee.

Norway are wealthier/more wealthy ("more wealthier" is tautologous) due to ramming their NS oil and gas income into a sovereign wealth fund. Our own government - not the EU - spunked our oil and gas income on giving tax breaks and subsidies to big business and the already-wealthy.

 

[Stevlin]

Stevlin, the UK can afford those cancer drugs. Now. We'll also be able to afford them if we leave the EU. But they won't get bought.

The reasons for that are probably some mix of pragmatism about the cost of extending the life of people who have a low quality of life and are going to die anyway (all health services have to make these decisions) and, just perhaps, your rulers not giving one fuck about you. The EU has nothing to do with it, nor to do with the poor quality of your local schools, the distance to your closest A&E, or the cost of higher education. See the second part of what I said for the explanation of that.

You are deluded if you think any part of the Tory party wants to leave the EU so they can spend more money on you. They don't and they won't.

 

[Stevlin]

I don't think you mean that somehow

'Two right I don't! Cheers for that - I do tend to be 'careless' at times - particularly with not checking what I have 'ritten'

 

[Stevlin]

How successful has your campaign's leadership been?

Generally, somewhat disappointing to me - but, at least it's more factual that the scaremongering lobby using Mystic Meg's crystal ball!#

Unfortunately, I've got a busy month. Hopefully the penny will drop at some stage.

I certainly hope that you finally wise up, but I don't it will drop for you..... somehow!

 

[Santino]

Generally, somewhat disappointing to me - but, at least it's more factual that the scaremongering lobby using Mystic Meg's crystal ball!#

I was asking William of Walworth actually.

 

[stethoscope]

I would have thought that fairly clear Andy - we currently borrow about £1 billion per month ,(net), to pay our EU membership fee/EU subsidy , yet cannot afford certain drugs......so out of the EU, if we can afford to subsidise them each year, we could continue to borrow it to fund those drugs instead.
I'm talking possibility of course - if we do leave the EU, despite not having to borrow the EU subsidy, I wouldn't be surprised if the response for those drugs would still be - "too expensive"

What other reasons do you have for exit, other than this which doesn't really follow. As others have said, we can afford those drugs already and not paying for membership of the EU won't magically make that money available for those drugs.

(I'm falling towards exit myself in what's a pretty crap deal either way - if only for the potential of attacking EU neoliberalism and hoping that a pro-worker/socialist alliance could come out of it in the longer term both here and in Europe)

 

[gosub]

gosub : Only trying to seek where this bloke is coming from, exactly.

Increasingly reassured he's a best of intentions, doing his own thing bloke, that I personally think would be better off leafleting. No Comms manager in their right mind is going to say "right, we need people with little grasp of nuance and syntax, to asto turf social media with 'the lines'

 

[laptop]

No Comms manager in their right mind is going to say "right, we need people with as little grasp of nuance and syntax, to asto turf social media with 'the lines'

Oh, I don't know... if they've read the "Why do Nigerian scammers say they're from Nigeria?" paper they'll understand that bad writing has its place in reaching certain target audiences...

 

[weltweit]

(I'm falling towards exit myself in what's a pretty crap deal either way - if only for the potential of attacking EU neoliberalism and hoping that a pro-worker/socialist alliance could come out of it in the longer term both here and in Europe)

It won't, if the UK votes to leave, Scotland will leave the rump UK and the English Welsh and Northern Irish will be left with a mainly tory Westminster and no entry into European markets unless it pays and plays by the rules.

 

[stethoscope]

...
no entry into European markets unless it pays and plays by the rules.

Cos Schäuble said so?

 

[weltweit]

Cos Schäuble said so?

What did he say?

 

[stethoscope]

What did he say?

My point is, where's your rationale for...

'and no entry into European markets unless it pays and plays by the rules'

(we already do this btw)

 

[weltweit]

My point is, where's your rationale for...

'and no entry into European markets unless it pays and plays by the rules'

(we already do this btw)

Yes, we already do this and I don't think our potentially leaving is going to grant us an escape from jail card, we will still have to pay and play by the rules. But then we will have even less say in the running of the market.

 

[DotCommunist]

oh noes

 

[weltweit]

oh noes

I think there will be quite a lot of inward investment that would have come to the UK if we were part of the EU which if we have left will think of other places to go. Plus new investments for people like Honda, Nissan, Airbus etc might well move from us to the continent, which means job losses.

 

[Stevlin]

Wholly inaccurate.
Mostly Eurasian, which means something entirely different. To distinguish the "Asian" part at the expense of the "Euro" part is at best disingenuous and/or ignorant

Nope - mid-90s% of Turkey is in Asia - that means mostly Asian in may book........I'm talking of the location of Turkey - not it's peoples.

 

[Stevlin]

You'd do better to ask yourself - if it's true - why the British government is borrowing money to pay its EU dues.

What has that got to do with claims of making a 'silly' argument?

 

[Stevlin]

Your second sentence is circular logic.

No it isn't it is making a straight forward logical conclusion. Whatever money is saved from leaving the EU clearly could be spent on something else.

 

[Stevlin]

Norway are wealthier/more wealthy ("more wealthier" is tautologous) due to ramming their NS oil and gas income into a sovereign wealth fund. Our own government - not the EU - spunked our oil and gas income on giving tax breaks and subsidies to big business and the already-wealthy.

The reason for their wealthier state is irrelevant, as the issue was about EU membership/single market access......but how does a government 'spunk' our oil and gas income??

 

[Stevlin]

I was asking William of Walworth actually.

So what? You posted your question on a forum.

 

[Santino]

So what? You posted your question on a forum.

I was just clarifying that I am still waiting for him to answer. There's no need to get in a tizzy about it.