Brady's, Brixton (Railway Hotel): history, chat and plans

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Fair enough Minnie but my memory of those Brixton Hill pubs is that they were old school boozers until the 90s possibly very late 80s.

Old school boozers that had bands playing in them. I was drinking in the George IV and watching bands like the Top Cats and Alabama 3 in the early 90s

The Clash apparently played The Telegraph much earlier

and just because they may not have had live bands earlier than that doesn't mean that Brady's or the Russell Brady's didn't

 

[lordnoise]

Its interesting that it seems easier to find out about things that happened in Victorian pubs in Brixton (as in some of the other fascinating historical threads on here) than events that happened within living memory !

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Its interesting that it seems easier to find out about things that happened in Victorian pubs in Brixton (as in some of the other fascinating historical threads on here) than events that happened within living memory !

Everyone was too skint in the 70s and 80s to take photos

 

[editor]

There was loads of rock/ punk rock gigs in Brixton in the 80s.
Apart from the Academy/Fair Deal, the Town Hall was putting on punk gigs in the early 80s: http://www.rockpopmem.com/Chelsea-Chelsea-Brixton-Gig-Poster/65412.htm and the Ace put on stacks of rock gigs in the 80s (e.g. UK Subs in 1983: http://www.uksubs.co.uk/reviews.html). Even I played there!

If you don't believe me, search Google for:
brixton gigs 1980
brixton gigs 1981
brixton gigs 1982
brixton gigs 1983 etc etc

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Don't know if you've ever come across this Editor (in relation to the Swiss Garden bit of the Railway)

A " Garden Restaurant " in connection with licensed
premises is also a novelty. At the Railway Hotel,
in Atlantic Road, Brixton, one can command luncheons,
teas and suppers amid very pleasant surroundings.
The enamel lettering over the side entrance and the
information set forth on the front windows, however,
seem a trifle misleading, since nothing like a garden
wall presents itself to the view of the curious, way down
the narrow turning. Neither would the description
* Winter Garden " prove more correct. There are
no plants whatever in this glass-roofed saloon-bar
annexe, which was of old a billiard-room. Instead,
well painted Swiss scenery on the walls conveys a capital
impression of refreshing oneself in a mountain chalet.
The neatness of the table service conjures up visions
of a Cook's Excursion, and the absence of a drinking-
bar adds a zest to the imaginative prospect. Yet,
because it is located off the principal thoroughfare, the
majority of residents in the district remain ignorant of
the attractions of this so-called " Garden Restaurant/*

 

[lordnoise]

There was loads of rock/ punk rock gigs in Brixton in the 80s.
Apart from the Academy/Fair Deal, the Town Hall was putting on punk gigs in the early 80s: http://www.rockpopmem.com/Chelsea-Chelsea-Brixton-Gig-Poster/65412.htm and the Ace put on stacks of rock gigs in the 80s (e.g. UK Subs in 1983: http://www.uksubs.co.uk/reviews.html). Even I played there!

If you don't believe me, search Google for:
brixton gigs 1980
brixton gigs 1981
brixton gigs 1982
brixton gigs 1983 etc etc

I'd forgotten The Ace which now houses The Fridge ! To be fair the Town Hall was most used - by far - as a venue by reggae sound systems and DJs and I still stand by my assertion that the music that defined Brixton in the 70s and 80s was reggae.

 

[lordnoise]

Everyone was too skint in the 70s and 80s to take photos

Everyone was certainly too something in the 70s and 80s !

 

[editor]

I'd forgotten The Ace which now houses The Fridge ! To be fair the Town Hall was most used - by far - as a venue by reggae sound systems and DJs and I still stand by my assertion that the music that defined Brixton in the 70s and 80s was reggae.

Surely that very much depends on who you were and what you were into? There's always been loads of different sorts of music going on in Brixton as those Google gig searches will prove. Reggae was clearly a big part, but there was a big punk/new wave/squat scene too. And don't forget disco and the other mainstream dance stuff that's always been popular.

 

[happyshopper]

Sorry ed I only have my memories of The Railway beng a Youngs pub. I do remember Youngs got a lot of negative publicity by pulling out of central Brixton after the riots though. I worked behind the bar at The Railway for the first (Irish) pubco who owned it after Youngs .

Sorry but this memory doesn't add up. It was a Brady's in 1980 before the riots. I remember because I agreed to meet someone at Brady's, so went to Railway - but they meant the Russell. So we're just left with your memory vs. my memory.

 

[lordnoise]

Sorry but this memory doesn't add up. It was a Brady's in 1980 before the riots. I remember because I agreed to meet someone at Brady's, so went to Railway - but they meant the Russell. So we're just left with your memory vs. my memory.

Whats more to the point - was the Bradys you remember a music venue before the riots ?

 

[lordnoise]

Surely that very much depends on who you were and what you were into? There's always been loads of different sorts of music going on in Brixton as those Google gig searches will prove. Reggae was clearly a big part, but there was a big punk/new wave/squat scene too. And don't forget disco and the other mainstream dance stuff that's always been popular.

Sorry ed there wasnt a huge Punk scene in Brixton - true there was the odd gig at the Town Hall and somewhere like the Telegraph may have put on the odd punk band without really understanding what was going on. By the time that the Fridge opened in the early 80s punk was over and they played mostly new wave/indie stuff. Dont overestimate the influence of The Fridge back then though it was simply one of many venues of its type in London and played to a mainly white audience. On the streets and in the vast majority of pubs and drinking dens Reggae was definately the King of music in Brixton.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Sorry ed there wasnt a huge Punk scene in Brixton - true there was the odd gig at the Town Hall and somewhere like the Telegraph may have put on the odd punk band without really understanding what was going on. By the time that the Fridge opened in the early 80s punk was over and they played mostly new wave/indie stuff. Dont overestimate the influence of The Fridge back then though it was simply one of many venues of its type in London and played to a mainly white audience. On the streets and in the vast majority of pubs and drinking dens Reggae was definately the King of music in Brixton.

What's that supposed to mean? You think everyone listened to reggae?

 

[lordnoise]

So I went to The Minet Rd archive today to try and find evidence for The Railway Hotel having been a Youngs pub and guess what ? It wasn’t. It did sell Youngs beer though ! I found a file on pubs in Brixton and there was a ‘Real Ale in Brixton 1979’ guide which lists the beers as Youngs Special, Fullers ESB and Bass amongst others. Theres no way that Youngs would have allowed Fullers beer to be sold on its premises so it must have been a privately owned free house. I went to the electoral register to see who lived at The Railway Hotel 20 Atlantic Rd in the period in question and found the names of the Irish couple I remember running it in 79/80 – John and Ann Galloghy (along with the names of other Irish bar staff living there). I was surprised to find that they’d run it since 1969 and before them back to 1965 (I didn’t go further) a series of more Irish names – Dunn, Dooley, Queally and so on – clearly a pub with Irish connections back in the mid 60s.
Given the severely traditional no music Youngs like feel of the pub when I knew it under the Galloghys in 79/80 it is highly unlikely that there was a music club called Bradys there in 1967. Remember too that there was no seperate function room at The Railway - the large area where bands played when it was Bradys was the main lounge bar with no stage.

John and Anne aren’t listed in 1981 so I think they or whoever owned it sold it either after the first riots or perhaps because of the boycott of the pub by Brixtons politicos after the Galloghys banned 2 lesbians who refused to stop snogging in the lounge bar !
In 1982 a bloke called Larry Mutch is listed as living there. Its at this time 81/82 when it may have started being called Bradys. It was bought by an Irish pub company who later bought the Russell Hotel towards Kennington calling it Bradys too. A year later in 1983 Dave Roberts who was my boss when I worked there as student is listed as living there as bar manager. Hes there in 1984 too and I know Dave kept it pretty much the same as the Galloghys did ie. a basic music free boozer for the remnants of the Irish community and the market workers.
In 1985 and 86 Justin Egan lives there which is when I lose touch with the pub. So in reality it can only have been a music venue from 1985 onwards and if the Clash did play there it was with a fag end line up - they definately didn’t play there at their height in the mid/late 70s. Certainly the live gig featured in the film Rude Boy (78/79) cant have been filmed at The Railway and I cant see any other scenes in the film that look like they're filmed in one of the bars.

I revere the music and memory of Hendrix and the Clash as much as anybody - I’m also desperately sad about The Railway Hotels fortunes since it closed but until someone can come up with proof that these two hugely important bands played there surely these myths should be put to one side. Whatever future lies ahead for The Railway/Bradys lets make sure its based on fact not myth.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

So I went to The Minet Rd archive today to try and find evidence for The Railway Hotel having been a Youngs pub and guess what ? It wasn’t. It did sell Youngs beer though ! I found a file on pubs in Brixton and there was a ‘Real Ale in Brixton 1979’ guide which lists the beers as Youngs Special, Fullers ESB and Bass amongst others. Theres no way that Youngs would have allowed Fullers beer to be sold on its premises so it must have been a privately owned free house. I went to the electoral register to see who lived at The Railway Hotel 20 Atlantic Rd in the period in question and found the names of the Irish couple I remember running it in 79/80 – John and Ann Galloghy (along with the names of other Irish bar staff living there). I was surprised to find that they’d run it since 1969 and before them back to 1965 (I didn’t go further) a series of more Irish names – Dunn, Dooley, Queally and so on – clearly a pub with Irish connections back in the mid 60s.
Given the severely traditional no music Youngs like feel of the pub when I knew it under the Galloghys in 79/80 it is highly unlikely that there was a music club called Bradys there in 1967. Remember too that there was no seperate function room at The Railway - the large area where bands played when it was Bradys was the main lounge bar with no stage.

So, for the last few pages, you've been absolutely adamant that it was a Young's pub and have been proved wrong. So how do you know you're not wrong about what bands were playing in various pubs?

Whatever future lies ahead for The Railway/Bradys lets make sure its based on fact not myth.

There's plenty of myths/legends/rumours throughout history, so why not?

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

BTW: I spoke to someone today who used to drink in The Cricketers (near Oval) and rock bands regularly played there apparently

 

[editor]

BTW: I spoke to someone today who used to drink in The Cricketers (near Oval) and rock bands regularly played there apparently

It was a very popular rock venue. I went to quite a few gigs there.

 

[lordnoise]

"There's plenty of myths/legends/rumours throughout history, so why not?"

Personally I'll go for the truth every time !

Come on Minnie - you've been very rigorous in the past over Brixtons history. Why soft pedal over this important historical subject ? (or has it defeated your Holmesian powers ?)

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

"There's plenty of myths/legends/rumours throughout history, so why not?"

Personally I'll go for the truth every time !

Come on Minnie - you've been very rigorous in the past over Brixtons history. Why soft pedal over this important historical subject ? (or has it defeated your Holmesian powers ?)

Not at all, but it's you that has the problem with it, so instead of just disputing it, why don't you disprove it? You've already now realised it wasn't a Young's pub after being so adamant it was.

Editor has pointed out that Brixton had a rock/punk scene (that it seems you were unaware of), and yet you were still adamant that it's highly unlikely bands played at the Railway because reggae dominated Brixton and because you were a barman at the Railway so because you didn't see it evidence of it, it obviously didn't happen

As for being rigorous in the past over Brixton's history, not sure where you got that from

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

It was a very popular rock venue. I went to quite a few gigs there.

Make sure lordnoise knows all about it then

 

[lordnoise]

I saw Frank Sidebottom there !

 

[miss minnie]

It was a very popular rock venue. I went to quite a few gigs there.

Indeed! Not entirely sure how reliable they are but I have memories of seeing John Cooper Clark, Ian Dury, Wilko Johnson, World Domination Enterprises there amongst many, many others. Geno Washington used to be on a lot iirc. Gah, so many more names on the tip of my tongue!

 

[lordnoise]

I think .....

 

[editor]

The original Brady's pub was at the Russell Hotel.
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/russell-hotel.html

Of course, that still doesn't mean that Hendrix may, or may not, have jammed at the Bradys/Railway Hotel or not. For all we know, he could have been playing an acoustic guitar in the corner.

And before anyone starts: yes, he did play acoustic too:

 

[miss minnie]

Perhaps he just hummed along to a few tunes on the jukebox, it still qualifies! imo

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

The original Brady's pub was at the Russell Hotel.
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/russell-hotel.html

Of course, that still doesn't mean that Hendrix may, or may not, have jammed at the Bradys/Railway Hotel or not. For all we know, he could have been playing an acoustic guitar in the corner.

And before anyone starts: yes, he did play acoustic too:

Maybe he'd heard it was an Irish bar and was just curious to see what an Irish bar was like. Maybe he wanted to see if diddly dee music appealed to him

 

[lordnoise]

Not at all, but it's you that has the problem with it, so instead of just disputing it, why don't you disprove it? You've already now realised it wasn't a Young's pub after being so adamant it was.

Editor has pointed out that Brixton had a rock/punk scene (that it seems you were unaware of), and yet you were still adamant that it's highly unlikely bands played at the Railway because reggae dominated Brixton and because you were a barman at the Railway so because you didn't see it evidence of it, it obviously didn't happen

As for being rigorous in the past over Brixton's history, not sure where you got that from

LOL ! - I spent 3 hours in Minet Rd today trying to get to the bottom of this conundrum - dont I get any brownie points for my efforts ? And as for The Railway being a Youngs pub - at least my memory served me up the correct brand of beer !

Ed has pointed out that in his opinion Brixton had a thriving Punk scene and I repeat that in my experience of being involved in the Punk scene (albiet at a distance) it didnt or at least no more so than any other part of London - sure enough Brixton had lots of disaffected youth but they were mostly Black and listened to reggae. Rock music came to Brixton via The Fridge and Academy in the early 80s. Both were larger venues that attracted people from all over London and until The Railway became Bradys and put live music on Brixton didnt have a pub rock scene either. BTW your right I was a barman (and drinker) at the Railway from 1979 to around 1984 and I didnt see any rock bands because non played there.

I appeal to you again Minnie - show the same interest in and rigour for the truth over Brixtons pub history as you do in this thread :

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...-Tavern-on-Coldharbour-Lane-Moorlands-Rd-SW9?

and perhaps we could put this Hendrix/Clash/Railway/Bradys conundrum to bed all the sooner !

 

[editor]

Ed has pointed out that in his opinion Brixton had a thriving Punk scene and I repeat that in my experience of being involved in the Punk scene (albiet at a distance) it didnt or at least no more so than any other part of London - sure enough Brixton had lots of disaffected youth but they were mostly Black and listened to reggae.

You're really talking rubbish here. You don't have to be "disaffected" to be into the rock, reggae or punk scenes and the notion that most of the white youth were all somehow all contented in comparison during this period is just plain weird. Haven't you heard of the 121 Centre?

From 1981 to 1999, the three floors of the 121 Centre, 121 Railton Road, Brixton, South London hosted a squatted autonomous centre, serving the local community as as a bookshop, cafe, gig and rehearsal space, printing facility, office and meeting space.

Over the years, several campaign and community groups were based at the centre, including radical women's magazine Bad Attitude, AnarQuist (the anarcho-queer group), Brixton Squatters' Aid and the prisoner support group Anarchist Black Cross.

The premises also hosted punk gigs ('Dead by Dawn'), regular women's cafe nights and a monthly Queer Night, hosted by AnarQuist serving up everything from sumptuous vegan banquets to film nights to live cabarets to zine-making to glittery glammed-up disco parties.
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/features/121.html
Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_Tax_Riots

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I appeal to you again Minnie - show the same interest in and rigour for the truth over Brixtons pub history as you do in this thread :

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...-Tavern-on-Coldharbour-Lane-Moorlands-Rd-SW9?

Did you see this news:

Christians mark Jesus Christ's Last Supper on Maundy Thursday, but new research suggests it took place on the Wednesday before his crucifixion.

People have happily believed that for thousands of years without any proof

 

[lordnoise]

You're really talking rubbish here. You don't have to be "disaffected" to be into the rock, reggae or punk scenes and the notion that most of the white youth were all somehow all contented in comparison during this period is just plain weird. Haven't you heard of the 121 Centre?

I remember some of them - I lived across the road at 113 Mayall. They meant well but were on the periphery of what was really going on. The ordinary kids and youths of the area are the real story of Brixton in the 70s and 80s. Joe Strummer wrote a song about them - you may know it.

 

[story]

I saw bands at The fridge when it was upstairs from the KFC on Brixton Road. That was long before it was in its current location. And I saw guitar bands at The Ritzy when it was a derelict flea pit, and at Prince of Wales before they sold part of it to Pizza Hut.

So rock and guitar music was in Brixton before the early eighties.

And what about The Old White Horse? That was a belting punk/ pub rock venue back in the day.

And don't forget the deep connection between Punk and Reggae.