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Boris's ban on alcohol on London Transport (with poll)

What do you think of Boris's proposed ban on drinking on public transport?


  • Total voters
    227
There'll be no riot. I predict the workers ignoring the quiet can drinker and using the ban to eject the rowdy. Much as happens in my town.

I wonder, though.

I can see this law being applied to those perfectly well-behaved and sober, enjoying a cold can, because they are an easier target to hassle than a group of people who are pissed and lairy.

Unless there are several actual police doing the hassling, I can see your average jobsworth hassling those causing no trouble while ignoring the kind of people that this law is intended for, for fear of them kicking off.

Giles..
 
Is it possible Bozza only wants to stop London Underground STAFF getting pissed on the job?
Cue Bob Crow and more strike action!
 
What a good thread, apart from JC2's trolling at the start.


Here in Korea there are no drinking or eating laws in public, except for eating squid in the cinema.

I think this is a pointless law.

A nice beer or two on the tube on the way home from work has never been a problem with anyone. Pissed idiots getting on and still hammering their beers has, this won't stop as they are pissed and won't care about a stupid law at post 11pm
 
If it's not infringing on anyone's right to enjoy a peaceful journey, I can't think of a single reason why not. Can you?

Tbh I automatically assumed it was banned anyway. I know you can't drink on Leeds buses or bring in smelly food.

I wouldn't want to be the one to enforce it, though.:)

I can think of reasons - people being drunk and intimidating. Although I guess it shouldn't be any different from a 'real' train, somehow it is. On long distance journeys people have tables to eat - and drink - at.

On the tube there's a weird atmos anyway with people facing each other, it is an intimidatory thing.
 
I can think of reasons - people being drunk and intimidating. Although I guess it shouldn't be any different from a 'real' train, somehow it is. On long distance journeys people have tables to eat - and drink - at.

On the tube there's a weird atmos anyway with people facing each other, it is an intimidatory thing.

But most people having a drink on the tube aren't intimidating. Some drunks are, but then many of them aren't drinking at the time and pretty much all of them are already drunk by the time they get on. And there are already laws in place to deal with them anyway.

So again it comes down to the question, what is a ban actually going to achieve?
 
I can think of reasons - people being drunk and intimidating. Although I guess it shouldn't be any different from a 'real' train, somehow it is.
You haven't answered my question. Can you give me any reason why you should ban something that isn't infringing on your right to enjoy a peaceful journey?

On the tube there's a weird atmos anyway with people facing each other, it is an intimidatory thing.
So you find the mere presence of a can of beer in someone's hand "intimidatory"? Why, exactly?
 
I don't necessarily find someone drinking on the tube intimidatory but I can see why they may be banning it - in fact I just took it as given that you weren't supposed to do this. Most buses for example won't allow alcohol and smelly food and I don't really see why the tube should be different.

I imagine it will be hard to enforce though, but it's just good manners really. Maybe if there was the same kind of education about this as there was smoking we'd get somewhere.

On the whole, tube passengers are on their own. The driver can't really do owt and there aren't conductors so it's easy to see how incidents could occur. Promoting better manners on the tube would therefore be helpful.

I say this as someone who likes a drink, as well, but I can refrain from drinking on tubes and buses without problem.
 
So we're agreed that your conception of decency isn't 'common'. In which case, why should it be enforced? What privileges your version ahead of another?

I start with the presumption that if people are going to share public space, often at very close quarters, then they need to be considerate of others.

People's preferences and sensitivities vary, ranging on a scale from those that are concerned about nothing except violence directed at them, to those for whom the very presence of others is an irritant to be endured where it cannot be avoided.

Obviously, we cannot please everyone all the time.

However, there is a long-established principle that one should make sacrifices where necessary to contribute to the comfort of others when in public. It is this principle that has disappeared for many people and has led to a range of behaviour, from the minor incivilities to major disorder, that plague our city.

As an example, some people enjoy loud music but most people find it very annoying, especially where it is others' music over which they have no control. So we prohibit music that is played loudly where it annoys others. This is justifiable because we do not want the preferences (it's hardly a necessity) of some to lead to the misery of many. Further, we make no general prohibition against music, or even loud music in contexts where it will not annoy others. This is considered by most people to be an appropriate balance.

I don't think that this measure against drinking on the tube is designed to stand alone. It represents the first of a range of measures to restore this "sacrifice principle" to behaviour in public. Individual instances of drinking on the tube may be perceived as anything between irritating and uncouth, all the way to grossly threatening. Mr Johnson is asking all Londoners to forego the dubious pleasure of drinking on the tube not because it in itself presages the fall of civilisation, but because it's a small way in which the tide can be turned from individual selfishness to a more widespread consideration of others' comfort.

I suspect there's also a "Broken Windows Theory" motivation here, but that's for another post, if not another thread.
 
Would you really need to drink on the tube? Most journeys aren't that long. It's not really on a par with a cross country rail journey where you'd have something to eat as well.

For me it would be on a par with drinking on a bus.. just wrong and a bit rude.

That's actually an interesting point. People going out for a night with friends often eat with the alcohol, which does slow down the "getting drunk" part. Whereas people drinking a can or two on public transport generally don't eat with it, thus the alcohol ends up in the blood - and impairing judgement - much quicker.

Public transport - especially during busy times and late night, can often be a stressful and frustrating experience. Given how alcohol shortens people's fuses, putting both of them together is a bad move.

Plus this poll can show that... 40,421 members, only 25 vote "totally against" the ban. You can also mention 23 "supporting or with reservations of the ban" v 25 "totally against" the ban. It seems like maybe there isn't an "overwhelming" dissention here?

"Two more people against than for the ban on obscure anarchist internet forum"... great headline grabber?
 
and ban people using both armrests, people with unfeasibly large rucksacks, with offensive fashion sense, with smelly feet, with colds, with unwashed hair, with irritating laughs, ones that fart, and anyone reading Harry Potter. Then I'd be happy. :):cool:

:hmm:

It would be far easier to ban you than all of them.
 
But most people having a drink on the tube aren't intimidating. Some drunks are, but then many of them aren't drinking at the time and pretty much all of them are already drunk by the time they get on. And there are already laws in place to deal with them anyway.

So again it comes down to the question, what is a ban actually going to achieve?

Not much it seems:

Over the Christmas and New Year period, Underground services performed well. In particular, there were only two significant incidents. … . The post event de-briefs have shown that there was an overall reduction in incidents caused by alcohol/anti-social behaviour incidents across the network, with a significantly lower number of staff assaults after 04:00.
Source
 
So you find the mere presence of a can of beer in someone's hand "intimidatory"? Why, exactly?

I tried this out on Saturday coming home at night on the tube I sat opposite blokes drinking from cans and tried to work out of I felt intimidated. I didn't feel in the least intimidated, even when I was sitting among 5 of them in a carriage. They were just so obviously enjoying themselves - not as drunk as me probably even though I had no drink - and not in the least threatening.

I think some people just see the world in a very skewed and negative way. One of them is now mayor of London.:(
 
Has anyone said anything about putting the can/bottle in a brown paper bag in the last 28 pages? If so, what?
 
Nice to see the corporate message linking 'fun' and alcohol is still impressing the younger generations.

I think it's safe to say that humans had been having 'fun' with alcohol for many thousands of years before corporations came along.

Just like they had been dealing with alcohol-related anti-social behaviour for thousands of years.

And I would guess that even our cave-man predecessors were able to get their head around the idea that it's rather more civilised to punish people for the anti-social behaviour, than for enjoying a quiet drink.
 
Has anyone said anything about putting the can/bottle in a brown paper bag in the last 28 pages? If so, what?

Yes, and that it will be the sensible way around this nonsense.

Although I won't be bothering with the bag; I shall just refrain from opening the can until I'm sat in the train.
 
I think it's safe to say that humans had been having 'fun' with alcohol for many thousands of years before corporations came along.

Just like they had been dealing with alcohol-related anti-social behaviour for thousands of years.

And I would guess that even our cave-man predecessors were able to get their head around the idea that it's rather more civilised to punish people for the anti-social behaviour, than for enjoying a quiet drink.


Lets not let the Centaurs have any though
Thereupon the vapours of the sacred wine wafted out of the cave and intoxicated the wild centaurs, led by Nessus, who had gathered outside. They attacked the cave with stones and fir trees. Heracles was forced to shoot many arrows (poisoned, of course, with the blood of the Hydra) to drive them back. During this assault, Chiron was hit in the thigh by one of the poisoned arrows
 
I imagine it will be hard to enforce though, but it's just good manners really.
Why is it 'bad manners' to quietly sip from a can, bothering no one?

I could see your point if you were referring to people wolfing down great stinky kebabs or distributing spent chicken bones around the carriage, but I feel to see what is so offensive about someone having a can on their way home/out.

Unless, of course, you think drinking anything on the tube is bad manners too.
 
Why is it 'bad manners' to quietly sip from a can, bothering no one?

I could see your point if you were referring to people wolfing down great stinky kebabs or distributing spent chicken bones around the carriage, but I feel to see what is so offensive about someone having a can on their way home/out.

Unless, of course, you think drinking anything on the tube is bad manners too.

You see, one persons meat is another ones poison. You object to meat, some people object to alcohol. I don't care that much either way, but wouldn't personally drink on the tube or on a bus, but like I said, most places hot food and alcohol are banned from.
 
Do people feel the same about the banning of smoking on public transport? Just curious.
In what way are these things linked?
I've not heard of passive drinking. Can you get cirrhosis from alcohol fumes? :confused:
 
I don't like olives.

BAN THEM EVERYWHERE!!! :mad:

Especially On The Buses ;)



olivemis.jpg
 
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