Boris's ban on alcohol on London Transport (with poll)

[dream_girl]

I'm sure you know precisely what I meant.

You meant something almost completely different from what you said then?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I'm sure you know precisely what I meant.

No I don't. You said he wasn't unelected. I'm sure he is. Now one of us is right and the other is being a disingenuous wanker. I'll let you guess which is which.

 

[El Jefe]

The will of the majority of Londoners (give or take) that felt strongly enough about the outcome to bother to vote.

It was nowhere near a majority of Londoners willing to vote.

 

[Fun-Sized]

Ken was going to do this too.

For what reason would anyone wish to drink on the tube anyway, unless they want to look like a tramp? Lone drinking is especially dodgy. Wait till you get home, or to the pub. How long is the average tube journey? I would guess around 25mins - if someone can't get by for that length of time without alcohol, then they need to take a long hard look at their life.

 

[untethered]

What you meant was: F- the workers.

What I meant was that elected politicans should decide how the city is run and employed workers should get on with the job of doing the things their employer asks of them.

 

[dream_girl]

The will of the majority of Londoners (give or take) that felt strongly enough about the outcome to bother to vote.

Good enough for me.

How many of them were voting on the drinking on public transport issue do you think?

 

[untethered]

No I don't. You said he wasn't unelected. I'm sure he is. Now one of us is right and the other is being a disingenuous w-. I'll let you guess which is which.

For the avoidance of any further doubt I'll spoon-feed you and clarify that I was referring to being elected by the public, not just by union members.

 

[dream_girl]

What I meant was that elected politicans should decide how the city is run and employed workers should get on with the job of doing the things their employer asks of them.

Sod health and safety - lets just listen to our bosses. they're never going to ask us to do something illegal or unsafe are they?

 

[untethered]

How many of them were voting on the drinking on public transport issue do you think?

That's not how representative democracy works, as I'm sure you know.

 

[ajdown]

i voted for him and i'm neither a suburban middle class or a west londoner.

and i buy The Times as well.

I don't buy the Times (no need to waste money on a paper when there's so many free ones) but I'm certainly not suburban middle class or west london either.

Unless you count being born in Somerset as "west of London".

Why are these things always blamed on some 'class' or as a 'political issue' when it's actually down to the simple matter of whether you want to be surrounded by alcoholics on public transport, or not.

 

[Crispy]

Ken was going to do this too.

Really? That changes things a bit. Got a source?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

For the avoidance of any further doubt I'll spoon-feed you and clarify that I was referring to being elected by the public, not just by union members.

But you said unelected union leaders. Bob Crow is elected. Unless you mean unelected in the same way people do when they say Chavez is a dictator?

 

[dream_girl]

For the avoidance of any further doubt I'll spoon-feed you and clarify that I was referring to being elected by the public, not just by union members.

So you think that transport workers who are expected to uphold this ban should not have a say on whether its possible, safe, etc? You think we shoyuld be ordered about by unelected bosses?

So much for being professionals!!

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Really? That changes things a bit. Got a source?

I've not read that. Sounds like something that Ken might have said at a hustings though "I'd consider banning booze etc"...

 

[dream_girl]

That's not how representative democracy works, as I'm sure you know.

In that case I don;t think you should use the phrase will of the people - you clearly realise it is a bullshit phrase.

And that's why politicians consult people before making decisions like this. Boris should consult us - unions, workers, transport companies, passengers, police, etc.

 

[Fun-Sized]

If anyone is going to enforce the ban then it should be the Transport Police, who are trained to deal with such situations, not Tube employees.

 

[untethered]

Why are these things always blamed on some 'class' or as a 'political issue' when it's actually down to the simple matter of whether you want to be surrounded by alcoholics on public transport, or not.

Not only is this a worthwhile point, but it's worth adding that it's the people at the bottom of the social/economic scale that suffer most from public disorder.

The people that are less likely to be able to choose where they live and work.

The people that are less likely to be able to choose to drive if the streets and public transport are unsafe.

The people that are too young, old or infirm to defend themselves or flee if trouble occurs.

But don't worry about them. Just defend the "rights" of relatively-affluent twenty/thirty-somethings to be able to treat the whole city as their orgiastic rumpus room.

 

[editor]

I'm about to launch an e-petition on petitions.pm.gov (is the right place?). What do people think of the text:

Overturn Boris Johnson's plans to ban the drinking of alcohol on London's transport system

This ridiculous law not only infringes on people's right to peacefully enjoy a drink on the tube - perhaps after work or on their way out for a night - but it will be expensive to enforce and achieve precisely nothing.

Drunken behaviour on tubes has got precious little to do with people actually drinking on the tube train - the problems are almost always caused by people who are already drunk. Therefore this law will make zero difference and trying to enforce it will just cause friction with passengers and cause problems for LT staff.

There are already laws in place to punish anti social behaviour on London's public transport, and we welcome further investment to protect the travelling public, but the time, money and resources needed to enforce Johnson's plans could be far better employed elsewhere.

 

[DotCommunist]

Ken was going to do this too.

For what reason would anyone wish to drink on the tube anyway, unless they want to look like a tramp? Lone drinking is especially dodgy. Wait till you get home, or to the pub. How long is the average tube journey? I would guess around 25mins - if someone can't get by for that length of time without alcohol, then they need to take a long hard look at their life.

Your opinion is irrelevant here-some people enjoy a can and a newspaper on the train/tube/bus after work. These people tend not to give a shit wether or not some random thinks they look like a tramp, or that their lone drink is 'dodgy'

 

[Kid_Eternity]

If anyone is going to enforce the ban then it should be the Transport Police, who are trained to deal with such situations, not Tube employees.

I agree. The other alternative is to give tube staff body armor and stun guns...

 

[El Jefe]

Ken was going to do this too.

For what reason would anyone wish to drink on the tube anyway, unless they want to look like a tramp? Lone drinking is especially dodgy. Wait till you get home, or to the pub. How long is the average tube journey? I would guess around 25mins - if someone can't get by for that length of time without alcohol, then they need to take a long hard look at their life.

See, that's the sort of assumption filled, judgemental bollocks that is driving this kind of legislation.

The thing is, i shouldn't NEED to justify my desire to have a drink on the tube.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I'm about to launch an e-petition on petitions.pm.gov (is the right place?). What do people think of the text:

Excellent wording, big thumbs up from me!

e2a: yes use that one, also send out a press notice (Brixton based community activist site opposes Bojo booze ban etc), try and get Brian Paddick to say something about it too. = headline city!

 

[editor]

Why are these things always blamed on some 'class' or as a 'political issue' when it's actually down to the simple matter of whether you want to be surrounded by alcoholics on public transport, or not.

Be sure to explain how that's going to change if people are unable to drink for the duration of their short journey.

Oh, and when was the last time you were "surrounded by alcoholics" on a tube journey or is this just a manufactured FACT!

 

[untethered]

I'm about to launch an e-petition on petitions.pm.gov (is the right place?). What do people think of the text:

Of course, I disagree with your motion.

But it's not the right place. pm.gov.uk is for matters that affect central government. If you want to petition the mayor, do so directly. (Not that he has a website for such things, but there are others.)

 

[teuchter]

It's not hard to tell that someone probably only had about a day to design the posters...

 

[STFC]

To be honest, it's doing those who drink on the tube a big favour - it does look a bit desperate if you can't wait until you reach your destination (and I say this as someone who has drunk on the tube once or twice).

 

[editor]

Of course, I disagree with your motion.

But it's not the right place. pm.gov.uk is for matters that affect central government. If you want to petition the mayor, do so directly. (Not that he has a website for such things, but there are others.)

It's more about gaining press and there's no similar public petition facility for London.

 

[ymu]

I'm sure you know precisely what I meant.

Bob Crow is just pointing out that it's a half-baked plan that the unions haven't been consulted on (which is shockingly poor policy-making for a start), and suggesting that tube workers should not be required to risk their personal safety by trying to enforce it. Seems rather reasonable to me.

Would you rather that our "democratically" elected leaders were not critiqued between elections? That noone with expertise ever comments negatively on policy because they weren't (nationally) elected and the politician with no relevant experience was?

Would you like the civil service to stop advising government on the practicalities of policy too? Thatcher and then Blair dismantled as much of it as possible in favour of their cronies who would tell them what they wanted to hear, but going the whole hog and not have any "unelected" personnel advising on policy decisions?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

It's not hard to tell that someone probably only had about a day to design the posters...

Heh I was thinking that, also wondering if this a hint of the new look branding and London.gov site....

 

[Roadkill]

I'm about to launch an e-petition on petitions.pm.gov (is the right place?). What do people think of the text:

It's good, except that 'to peacefully enjoy' is a split infinitive!

You could perhaps emphasise the fact that tube journeys are mainly so short that people don't have time to get pissed, which would reinforce the point about such problems as do exist being cause by people who are already drunk when they get on the train.