Boris's ban on alcohol on London Transport (with poll)

[DotCommunist]

gangsters find ways to make money whatever the situation, it's not like they just gave up gangstering when prohibition was repealed/

the three traditionals illegal gambling/prostitution and protection rackets. However these activities don't generate the sorts of profits one can expect from prohibiting certain substances. This increased profit means more vicious infighting and lots more gangsters. It's actually bad for society.

 

[Crispy]

Try being in a large group of drunks in the street in Riyadh, for an obvious example.

Yeah, lovely downtown Riyadh. Charming place. Think I'll take my girlfriend.

PS: Can we stop the completely tedious and uninformed "You're tobyjug!" crap.

 

[editor]

These things go in cycles, as I'm sure you're aware.

And you're saying that regulation solved the problem in the past then, yes?

 

[rutabowa]

the three traditionals illegal gambling/prostitution and protection rackets. However these activities don't generate the sorts of profits one can expect from prohibiting certain substances. This increased profit means more vicious infighting and lots more gangsters. It's actually bad for society.

of course i am not saying bring back prohibition, only that there is a common view that it was a total failure when in fact it did achieve quite a lot of what it set out to do

 

[Fruitloop]

I'm tobyjug, and so's my wife.

 

[ajdown]

In the case of alcohol, our society has gone from one where it's acceptable to have a drink to one where for many people it's acceptable (indeed, usual) to be drunk.

One of the bigger problems is that it's almost as expensive to have a 'soft drink' in a pub as it is to drink alcohol.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

One of the bigger problems is that it's almost as expensive to have a 'soft drink' in a pub as it is to drink alcohol.

One of the biggest problems is the state trying to socially engineer people's (adults') behaviour. If I want to drink myself stupid, fuck off and let me. If I then engage in antisocial behaviour as a result of my drinking, punish me for that. I'm gettin mightily pissed off with the recent rise of the puritan state, as exemplified on here by the likes of untethered.

Why the fuck should I pay loads of tax because I want to drink alcohol, subsidising the teetotal do-good boring fucks who sip Perrier at home with both their friends. On balance, I actually think alcohol is a good thing, and there is absolutely no reason why it should be more expensive than non-alcoholic drinks - brewing is not an expensive process.

 

[jbob]

One of the bigger problems is that it's almost as expensive to have a 'soft drink' in a pub as it is to drink alcohol.

Try the tube then.

 

[untethered]

And you're saying that regulation solved the problem in the past then, yes?

Regulation can contribute to an improvement in conditions where done properly.

Law enforcement is the pinnacle of the social order pyramid. It would be naive to think that it could work in the absence of the foundation layers below. But measures to build any layer of the pyramid are worthwhile provided that simultaneous work is done on the other layers.

I start from the presumption that it's a good thing for all people to be able to use public space at any time of the day without fear, intimidation and harassment. Curbing public drinking and drunkenness would be an important step towards that end.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I start from the presumption that it's a good thing for all people to be able to use public space at any time of the day without fear, intimidation and harassment. Curbing public drinking and drunkenness would be an important step towards that end.

What about those who want to have a little drink in a public space and cause no trouble? Are they not to be allowed to enjoy themselves too?

 

[untethered]

Why the f- should I pay loads of tax because I want to drink alcohol, subsidising the teetotal do-good boring f- who sip Perrier at home with both their friends.

You're not subsidising anyone. You're paying the price that society bears for alcohol-related illnesses, public disorder and crime.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You're not subsidising anyone. You're paying the price that society bears for alcohol-related illnesses, public disorder and crime.

|
Got the figures for that?

A small amount of alcohol every day is actually good for your health, while most people manage to drink and never commit any crime as a consequence.

 

[twistedAM]

One of the bigger problems is that it's almost as expensive to have a 'soft drink' in a pub as it is to drink alcohol.

It is in a shop as well. Compare the prices of a can of quality lager and a 500ml bottle of Coke. I'd hazard a guess they're both 89p in Costcutter.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It is in a shop as well. Compare the prices of a can of quality lager and a 500ml bottle of Coke. I'd hazard a guess they're both 89p in Costcutter.

And why should they not be the same price?

 

[christonabike]

Will we be able to drink cans wrapped up in a paper bag, (like in New York, mmmm Olde English 800, 40 ounce bottles)?

I've read a lot of pages of this thread and can see no comment on this

If so, problem solved

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The UK is turning into one big version of the Baptist Church in Under Milk Wood, with "Thou shalt not" written on every wall.

 

[twistedAM]

And why should they not be the same price?

Well there's a lot of duty on alcohol and none on Coca-Cola or soft drinks so you'd think lager would be more expensive per litre. The brewing process is also more expensive.
The price of beer in shops has gone down radically in real terms over the past few years.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The brewing process is also more expensive.

Is it? You know this - that the brewing process is more expensive than the process used to make Coca Cola?

 

[ajdown]

One of the biggest problems is the state trying to socially engineer people's (adults') behaviour. If I want to drink myself stupid, fuck off and let me. If I then engage in antisocial behaviour as a result of my drinking, punish me for that. I'm gettin mightily pissed off with the recent rise of the puritan state, as exemplified on here by the likes of untethered.

Why the fuck should I pay loads of tax because I want to drink alcohol, subsidising the teetotal do-good boring fucks who sip Perrier at home with both their friends. On balance, I actually think alcohol is a good thing, and there is absolutely no reason why it should be more expensive than non-alcoholic drinks - brewing is not an expensive process.

So... let me get this straight?

You feel I'm imposing my "lifestyle choices" on you ... yet you can't see that you want to do exactly the same?

I'm not asking you to stop drinking alcohol totally ... just perhaps have a bit of consideration for those that, for whatever reason, don't or can't - and don't wish to be surrounded by it.

 

[twistedAM]

Is it? You know this - that the brewing process is more expensive than the process used to make Coca Cola?

Yes. Have a little think about it.

 

[Crispy]

Dunno, but I'll be taking my water onto the tube in an empty vodka bottle. I like that one

 

[Crispy]

So... let me get this straight?

You feel I'm imposing my "lifestyle choices" on you ... yet you can't see that you want to do exactly the same?

I'm not asking you to stop drinking alcohol totally ... just perhaps have a bit of consideration for those that, for whatever reason, don't or can't - and don't wish to be surrounded by it.

This shouldn't have to be a matter for the law

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes. Have a little think about it.

No, you have a little think about it. That's no sort of answer.

 

[twistedAM]

Dunno, but I'll be taking my water onto the tube in an empty vodka bottle. I like that one

The Buckfast suggestion was even better. You don't want to get your water tainted by sunlight.

 

[untethered]

This shouldn't have to be a matter for the law

Well if everyone were able to drink responsibly then it wouldn't be.

 

[TopCat]

I can't read the whole thread due to concentration issues, but has anyone suggested a tube party in honour of this new legislation?

 

[untethered]

I can't read the whole thread due to concentration issues, but has anyone suggested a tube party in honour of this new legislation?

Yes, they have.

It's a thoroughly bad idea.

 

[8ball]

No, you have a little think about it. That's no sort of answer.

I'd guess there are a lot more energy costs related to boiling and heating at various stages of the brewing process, plus some bits of it would go on a good bit longer than the Coca-Cola process, I imagine.

That's my 'having a little think' answer which may bear little resemblance to reality.

 

[DotCommunist]

I can't read the whole thread due to concentration issues, but has anyone suggested a tube party in honour of this new legislation?

it would be awesome.

 

[Fruitloop]

There is hardly a freedom that exists that isn't abused by some group of people or other, but to involve the law in everything infantilizes adults even further, and diminishes rather than increases social responsibility.