BNP national demo in Keighley

[butchersapron]

And I suppose you come face to face with fascists all the time do you Taxamo? ...do you bollocks, come up to Leeds or Bradford and have a drink in one of the pubs thats full of nazi scum, they'd chew you up and spit you out before the door could hit you on the arse.

There it is.

 

[pk]

Can't say I disagree with any of that red_hippy, even before the riots the casual animosity between the Islamic communities (many of whom are British and have been since the cotton mills and industry arrived) and the white townies was palpable.

I also doubt the "young girls picked up by Asians for some kind of paedo ring" story though.

If there is any kind of ring involving child abuse it'll likely involve plenty of white men too, many of them possibly BNP members...

 

[butchersapron]

I dont know in detail, all I know is that there's been alot of fash leaflets about it given out in Keighley rumoring it, and there have been some cases reported by searchlight. Certainly nobody in the area that I know seems to think it is more widespread than child abuse in any other town in the country.

This is the rigour that's giving the BNP a hand in Keighley.

 

[pk]

... but the underlying point is that many of the working class white W.Yorkshire residents DO feel that elements of the Pakistani communities are taking the piss.

And it would be far more beneficial to address this honestly before wading in and attacking anything and everything the BNP happpen to be saying just because it's the BNP.

In a lot of ways they're saying things the left should have done years ago, IMO, before it got to this.

 

[butchersapron]

... but the underlying point is that many of the working class white W.Yorkshire residents DO feel that elements of the Pakistani communities are taking the piss.

And it would be far more beneficial to address this honestly before wading in and attacking anything and everything the BNP happpen to be saying just because it's the BNP.

In a lot of ways they're saying things the left should have done years ago, IMO, before it got to this.

But that's EXACTLY my (and other posters) point. And asking why that's the case.

(And pk, i'm not after a fight tonight, i've got enough on my plate, i'd appreciate it if you held back, i'll do the same for you when needed, just remind me)

 

[past caring]

Its nice and easy for people who don't have a clue how strong the fascists are in West Yorkshire to somehow seperate the issues and say 'oh well, lets investigate what the BNP and searchlight are claiming... then we can deal with the fact that the fascists are ripping the town apart later'

There are enough sources quoted on the thread to evidence the fact that's it's far from rumour - I've even heard the local MP admitting the problem on R4.

It seems to have escaped your notice that the BNP are strong in West Yorkshire for precisely this kind of reason - they are prepared to take up the issue (or at least be seeing to) whilst they left buries its collective head in the sand. Fucking shower.....

 

[red_hippy]

Well, there's a shed load of evidence that it is happening.

that means nothing, there's 'shed loads' of evidence that child abuse goes on all over the place. It just happens that in Keighley the BNP are using it to exploit racial tensions that they have already built.

That aside, and looking at this tactically you're going to give them exactly what they want, where they want it and with who they want it. Your agendas co-incide here.

No. Giving them what they want would be allowing them, unhindered, to hold the biggest fascist demonstration in the north for years

 

[butchersapron]

that means nothing, there's 'shed loads' of evidence that child abuse goes on all over the place. It just happens that in Keighley the BNP are using it to exploit racial tensions that they have already built.

That's all very well but does it work in theory.

You never ever learn. You refuse to learn in fact. You're part of the problem.

 

[butchersapron]

that means nothing, there's 'shed loads' of evidence that child abuse goes on all over the place. It just happens that in Keighley the BNP are using it to exploit racial tensions that they have already built.



No. Giving them what they want would be allowing them, unhindered, to hold the biggest fascist demonstration in the north for years

Let me get this right then, you're saying that the accusations regarding what goes on in Keighley are false. What has led you to this definitive conclusion? What sources have you used ?

 

[red_hippy]

It seems to have escaped your notice that the BNP are strong in West Yorkshire for precisely this kind of reason - they are prepared to take up the issue (or at least be seeing to) whilst they left buries its collective head in the sand. Fucking shower.....

The BNP are strong in West Yorkshire because there have been un-addressed issues around racism allowed to fester for year after year. As Pk said, the rumors started following the riots in 2001. The left has failed on doing consistent, effective anti-racist work in these communities. The BNP wouldn't be able to use these partially substansiated rumors to stoke publicity if that issue had been tackled.

 

[pk]

But that's EXACTLY my (and other posters) point. And asking why that's the case.

(And pk, i'm not after a fight tonight, i've got enough on my plate, i'd appreciate it if you held back, i'll do the same for you when needed, just remind me)

Hey... I'm not fighting - this kind of affects me, I lived up there for a year and maintain links with the place.

Issues that I think stir up deep resentment are things like the arranged and enforced marriage of young women born in this country, taken to Pakistan and made effectively slaves.

Also the notion of a young woman from a relatively high caste of Pakistani culture dating a white man has led to serious assault and murder of said young woman. I dated a Muslim girl (in Croydon actually, but still) she made it known on no uncertain terms that her brothers would kill her, and possibly me, if they ever found out.

There are a lot of issues that do genuinely seem to be hushed away so as not to create a debate, "keep the pakis sweet" kind of attitude amongst the council executives in Bradford - and people aren't stupid.

That's my honest take on it anyway. It was difficult to engage with any of the Pakistani community, until they figured I was a Londoner and not born there most wouldn't talk to me, once they sussed I was not bothered by race issues they'd be really friendly, but they'd always disappear when my mates who were locals were around.

Fucking sad really.

 

[red_hippy]

Let me get this right then, you're saying that the accusations regarding what goes on in Keighley are false. What has led you to this definitive conclusion? What sources have you used ?

Living in the area, knowing people in the area, seeing the BNP churn out rumor after rumor after bullshit rumor to deepen racial divides in Bradford.

 

[butchersapron]

Why do you think so many people disagree with you? Two national programs, C4, a series of Radio programs, countless paper articles, the standing MP and so on. Are these all BNP stuff?

 

[past caring]

Let me get this right then, you're saying that the accusations regarding what goes on in Keighley are false. What has led you to this definitive conclusion? What sources have you used ?

Sources? Don't hold your breath. This joker seems to have trouble remembering what he's said from one post to the next....

I dont know in detail, all I know is that there's been alot of fash leaflets about it given out in Keighley rumoring it, and there have been some cases reported by searchlight.

that means nothing, there's 'shed loads' of evidence that child abuse goes on all over the place. It just happens that in Keighley the BNP are using it to exploit racial tensions that they have already built.

 

[butchersapron]

Yep. More of that rigour.

 

[pk]

If these rumours are true, and there really is a paedo ring, something exclusively organised and used only by Pakistani men, then that's one thing.

If Pakistani men are taking a cut of the profits from the money these girls earn by selling themselves to local white men, that's another matter.

Either way - I would have thought some strength of opposition against the BNP would be a starting point for a much wider discussion and outlining of ways forward, so that everyone in the Pakistani community knows where they stand, and to report any incidences of known child sex activity, and also to ensure the local white communities know where they stand too, that they can actually live in perfect harmony with the ethnic communities and both can condone the same thing, whilst diverting resources to mutually beneficial causes.

Ignoring what may amount to be a huge show of jackboots sends a clear message to both communities though - that is - the left don't give a fuck and we just want whatever we can get... and the situation is obviously so volatile it could well be another riot.

 

[red_hippy]

Past Caring, if you'd bothered to quote the whole of that first post, then people could say that in fact both say exactly the same thing.

Anyway, really can't be arsed making the same points over and again. Think what you like. The BNP demo on the 5th needs countering, the fascists need to be shown that can't have free reign in Keighley or anywhere else in West Yorkshire. Anybody who considers themself an anti-fascist and knows fuck all about the area can work it out pretty easily. I'm off to bed.

 

[pk]

White and Asian men involved in sex ring

Bradford police attack reports of documentary as inciting hatred

Vikram Dodd
Saturday May 22, 2004
The Guardian

The chief constable who had a television documentary about young girls being "groomed" for sex in Bradford postponed said yesterday his force's investigation had uncovered that both white and Asian men were involved.

Mr Cramphorn said some press coverage could face prosecution for inciting racial hatred. He said a Daily Mirror headline, "Asian perverts show axed in race riots fear", was false and incendiary.

"I think that gets very close to the criminal standard of inciting public disorder. What basis is there for the words 'Asian perverts'? The investigation we have done has arrested both Asian and white men."

 

[butchersapron]

Past Caring, if you'd bothered to quote the whole of that first post, then people could say that in fact both say exactly the same thing.

Anyway, really can't be arsed making the same points over and again. Think what you like. The BNP demo on the 5th needs countering, the fascists need to be shown that can't have free reign in Keighley or anywhere else in West Yorkshire. Anybody who considers themself an anti-fascist and knows fuck all about the area can work it out pretty easily. I'm off to bed.

I think that's best.

 

[pk]

So... anyone actually going up there then?

 

[butchersapron]

To be part of the anti-white pro-paedo mob?

 

[rebel warrior]

To be part of the anti-white pro-paedo mob?

So your going to do sweet fa about the Nazi BNP now they are trying to march again for the first time in ten years because you agree with the New Labour/Searchlight/State line that the real issue in Keighley is not racism or poverty but paedophilia. Brilliant.

It would be nice if you stopped backing up racists/fascists on this thread (CumbrianDragon?) for a bit in order to justify to yourself that doing nothing about the BNP is better than joining an anti-fascist protest that will try to stop the Nazis trying to start a riot in Keighley or elsewhere.

[and before you try to misinterpret this post of mine - I do not think that hibee or TW are racist - in fact I specifically said after I asked them whether they though there was a racial or religious dynamic to paedophilia that 'I doubt all of that somehow' - implying that I doubted they really did think that]

 

[butchersapron]

Oh please.

 

[pk]

To be part of the anti-white pro-paedo mob?

No, just anti-BNP.

If you think opposition to their bullshit amounts to anti-white pro-paedo then maybe they have won up there after all.

Again... fucking shame.

 

[butchersapron]

No, of course i don't think that - i was trying to highlight the trap that UAF and associated idiots are walking into. They'll do more damage with this stuff than the BNP could alone. Talk about isolating a community and calling it's members liars and racists (antiwhite and pro-paedo) - that's how you build against the far right is it RW?

 

[rebel warrior]

Oh please.

You have already made it quite clear you prefer to support the 'standing MP' - a member of New Labour - rather than the Asian community of Keighley which has been attacked by racists and demonised by the Government.

What a fucking hero.

 

[butchersapron]

You have already made it quite clear you prefer to support the 'standing MP' - a member of New Labour - rather than the Asian community of Keighley which has been attacked by racists and demonised by the Government.

What a fucking hero.

What to say.

How are:

John Cryer MP
Leroy Logan
Metrpolitan Black Police Association Chair
Rev W Martin Smyth MP

these days?

 

[rebel warrior]

No, of course i don't think that - i was trying to highlight the trap that UAF and associated idiots are walking into. They'll do more damage with this stuff than the BNP could alone. Talk about isolating a community and calling it's members liars and racists (antiwhite and pro-paedo) - that's how you build against the far right is it RW?

So by trying to stop the BNP running riot in Keighley the UAF are playing into the hands of the BNP?

You think Nazi fireworks and bonfires are just the thing Keighley needs to bring communities together?

 

[butchersapron]

Again...

Yes, i love the BNP - you've finally caught me and exposed my game.

 

[pk]

No, of course i don't think that - i was trying to highlight the trap that UAF and associated idiots are walking into. They'll do more damage with this stuff than the BNP could alone. Talk about isolating a community and calling it's members liars and racists (antiwhite and pro-paedo) - that's how you build against the far right is it RW?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't... seems to be the situation.

I still say you don't have to alienate the white communities, if, as the cops reported, white men as well as Asians were charged with sex traffic/child abuse offences, why not publicise that with counter-leafletting.

Nobody seems to have bothered, that's the thing.

Both sides are now so entrenched - bearing in mind there was Hamas graffitti as long ago as 1997 in some areas... seems like it's too much of a risk politically for anyone to step up and take some stock.

Meanwhile, the BNP are convincing lower class low income white families that they're helpless, nobody wants to listen.

Maybe they're right.

Fucking shame.