BNP national demo in Keighley

[hibee]

Alright, but I don't really give a shit what they call themselves... they are a bunch of violent fascists who frequent the same pubs in Leeds, and from what I know have been involved in attacks on people in Leeds. Whether they are nationalist alliance BPP, whatever, its the same people doing the same thing.

Point is, while it's not very pleasant to have Mark Collet give you the vickys in the street, and burning down mosques is obviously a serious matter for your community, the WNP/BPP whatever nationally are an irrelvent sect of less than a hundred oddballs who are reduced to the odd bit of fireraising because they can do fuck all else.

The real threat from comes from the BNP who, despite the left trying to pretend it isn't happening, have won mass support by ditching the Nazi baggage and giving solutions, however dead end, to people's concerns. Rather than telling them what they should be angry about.

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

Didn't jerry Lee Lewis marry someone in their early teens which apparntly was not/is not uncommon in the Southern States of America, weren't the sons and daughters of the Royal also married at a similar age in medieval times?? But don't tell me that this explains grooming children into prostitution in either USA or medieval England.[/QUO
TE]

This is the point I'm getting at chuck some cultures , religeons etc have different beliefs.

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

So your going to do sweet fa about the Nazi BNP now they are trying to march again for the first time in ten years because you agree with the New Labour/Searchlight/State line that the real issue in Keighley is not racism or poverty but paedophilia. Brilliant.

It would be nice if you stopped backing up racists/fascists on this thread (CumbrianDragon?) for a bit in order to justify to yourself that doing nothing about the BNP is better than joining an anti-fascist protest that will try to stop the Nazis trying to start a riot in Keighley or elsewhere.

[and before you try to misinterpret this post of mine - I do not think that hibee or TW are racist - in fact I specifically said after I asked them whether they though there was a racial or religious dynamic to paedophilia that 'I doubt all of that somehow' - implying that I doubted they really did think that]

I'm not backing up racists or fascists on this thread . Maybe stirring things up abit. .Sometimes I do get carried away
I just think attacking the bnp and map demo and march is going to play into the fash's hands. 4 Councillors are way too many and I would not like to see another fascist in the chamber.

 

[LLETSA]

Pubs landlorded and frequented by BNP or White Nationalist Party members and supporters... not too hard to work out is it?

Have you ever encountered a member of the WNP?

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

A sensible post.

It's possible pk, that the police were telling the truth, that white men were involved too - although it's perhaps interesting to note that in the piece you quote no numbers are mentioned; the quote from the Mirror could be strictly "accurate" whilst out of a group of, say, fifty men, only two of them were white....

It seems to me, though, that the real problem here is that the left is unable to even countenance the possibility that the paedos were Asian, whilst their victims were white - and that anyone who is prepared to at least say it's worth examining automatically has a racist or BNP agenda. The weight of the evidence so far suggests there might be something to the BNP's claims.

To oppose the BNP demo in such circumstances - simply because it is a BNP demo - whilst at the same time doing absolutely nothing to establish the actual facts (and more importantly, having the guts to face reality and do something about it, regardless of the ethnic background of the perps) is a fucking gift to the BNP.

Why is there not a demo against the bnp and this paedaphile ring? .Does it really matter what race or creed these paedaphiles are. This would also steal the bnp's thunder abit.

 

[audiotech]

Have you ever encountered a member of the WNP?

The 'voice of experience' is back (not of fighting fascism though). You teachers seem to get a lot of holidays? Was it Tuscany again this year?

 

[red_hippy]

Have you ever encountered a member of the WNP?

I've encoutnered several people wearing bomber jackets with 'white power' 'white brotherhood' 'kkk' patches... skinheads, jackboots and pretty mean looking rotweiler's... whether they are WNP, nationalist alliance, BPP or any other nutty right-wing sect, the do the same fucking thing.... so why not give up the nit picking about who did what, where and which group they were in and accept from somebody who lives in Leeds that the fash are back on the street.

 

[Chuck Wilson]

I've already posted what I know about who did this, maybe you could be bothered to read it.

Maybe I am a slow typer?

 

[Chuck Wilson]

Meanwhile back in North Manchester a better example of the BNP's threat. A BNP member has got himself installed of a residents community group and was part of a group of local people who were demonstrating against evictions from properties that are being compulsory purchased through regeneration. SWP members who are UNISON members join the lobby and have a verbal go at said BNP member.

Letter in Manchester evening news from Mike Killian from UAF protesting about his involvement and saying that local people won't be decieved by the BNP. Letter by Chair of the local Tenants group against evictions who defends the BNP member on the grounds that this is his personal politics which everyone has a right to and then describes the campaign against the evictions.

Obviously no member of the left involved in the campaign who actually lives there.

I find this more worrying than the appearance of a few skins in retro fashion gear.

 

[red_hippy]

I find this more worrying than the appearance of a few skins in retro fashion gear.

Good. I'd answer, but I have a perfectly good brick wall next to me that I can smash me head against with less effort.

 

[Solidarnosc]

I wouldn't bother with Chuck if I were you, r_h.

 

[Chuck Wilson]

Good. I'd answer, but I have a perfectly good brick wall next to me that I can smash me head against with less effort.

Shouldn't you have stopped doing that a few years ago?

 

[Chuck Wilson]

I wouldn't bother with Chuck if I were you, r_h.

Are you still the good shepherd or have you been promoted to being one of Wankers Powers minders these days my little trotskyist pet.

 

[red_hippy]

Are you still the good shepherd or have you been promoted to being one of Wankers Powers minders these days my little trotskyist pet.

Christ Chuck, the interlect you exhbit in swapping Worker's for Wanker's blinds me... everyone in the IWCA got such a sharp wit?

 

[Chuck Wilson]

Christ Chuck, the interlect you exhbit in swapping Worker's for Wanker's blinds me... everyone in the IWCA got such a sharp wit?

Please don't call me Christ and remember not to take any drugs to the demo. Btw UAF have called for a peaceful demo , how does that fit the 'no platform ' policy of WP?

 

[red_hippy]

remember not to take any drugs to the demo.

very original... yes I made a mistake, over a year ago, yes I learnt from it. Thats how life works funnily enough.

As for our No Platform policy, come along and find out if you give a toss... otherwise, what does it matter to you?

 

[Chuck Wilson]

Right... they don't exist? that'd explain the 60 odd of them who turned up the last time Griffin was in court.

Where are the pubs...

The Malvern in Holbeck
The Three Legs on the Headrow
The White Hart opposite Elland Rd.

and various other places around leeds. I wasn't claiming they are specifically WNP pubs, but that alot of fascists from either organisation drink there

I've been in the White Hart when Chelsea used to play Leeds at Elland Road I think, is it the one with the beer garden at the back where people bring there kids in?

Menu looks quite reasonable...........
http://www.pub-explorer.com/spiritmenus/steakout.htm

no smoking area, sky football but no quiz night?

 

[red_hippy]

yawn.

yes chuck, I bow down to your superior knowledge of Leeds and everything else in the universe.

 

[rebel warrior]

Chuck - this post

What I can't understand is what Cockers's lot have been doing in West Yorkshire whilst the Fourth Reich has been gathering pace.Surely their eagle eyed cadre would have spotted it, one minute REVO days of action going into banks and asking to see the manager in order for him to cancel world debt and the next minute pubs full of all day drinkers sporting BNP leaflets. Pre revolutionary days indeed!

really is a work of genius and does deserve some sort of acknowledgement. Congratulations.

 

[red_hippy]

Who'd a thunk it... Chuck and RW... talk about a united front of a special kind.

 

[Solidarnosc]

Are you still the good shepherd or have you been promoted to being one of Wankers Powers minders these days my little trotskyist pet.

I might be able to give you an answer - if I knew what you were on about.

 

[WP member]

I might be able to give you an answer - if I knew what you were on about.

Chuck, so obsessed with little old WP that he really should seek help, manages to derail the thread, nice one!

Anyway for those of you who aren'ty complete fools we will see you in Keighley.. The real question is how long can the liberal, wet SWP hang around with the community leaders calling for 'peace and unity in our community' as the best way of stopping a fascist demonstration? How long before these particular Trotskyists are mugged by reality?

As for the Three Legs pub, some guy I know who teaches Refugees at College took 15 of them into that pub for a drink, the bar staff screamed at him to get out, pointing at his students saying 'we don't serve your lot in here'.

I am sure Chuck knows loads about Leeds of course. Maybe I could take you round the pubs in Morley, we might bump into Mark Collet! Of course for poor Chuck being in the company of a member of Workers Power would probably send him into such an apoplectic rage he might be seized by a convulsion and collapse to the floor, trying to make another joke about 'workers defence squads' as drool comes out of his mouth.

 

[where to]

why is there no chat on this demonstration on stormfront?

 

[audiotech]

As for the Three Legs pub, some guy I know who teaches Refugees at College took 15 of them into that pub for a drink, the bar staff screamed at him to get out, pointing at his students saying 'we don't serve your lot in here'.

The Three Legs has changed a lot then, as the SWP used to have weekly meetings in the upstairs room for years. It was The Vine next door which had a fascist presence, has did a number of pubs in the Beeston area - a NF stronghold one time.

 

[pk]

"Why is there no chat on this demo on Stormfront?"

If there were it probably wouldn't have developed into this kind of petty secular bitching, which achieves fuck all apart from highlighting why most of those who consider themselves radical left wing will never contribute to or amount to anything.

I can't believe the shit being talked on this thread.

Can the little insignificant little parties not just sort it out with a game of rock paper scissors?

If any BNP were reading this they'd fucking laugh...

 

[Chuck Wilson]

Trotskyists being mugged by reality is a regular occurence imo but like a punch drunk boxer their are no lessons learnt.

Must be really exciting to be able to bump into Mark Collett he seems a really tough ex graduate. Leeds has always had a few fash around so what .As to what the 'real question' is I am just interested in why the fash have had a clear run in what should be the domain of the left, the working class areas in Leeds.

 

[LLETSA]

The 'voice of experience' is back (not of fighting fascism though). You teachers seem to get a lot of holidays? Was it Tuscany again this year?

You crying again, Mr Experience? You never learn, it seems. I'm not going through it all again when our respective posting histories already show who came off worst on the previous occasions you chose to go down this road.

Why not try addressing the issues for a change? For somebody who claims to be such a hardened class warrior you don't half get indignant about any criticism of your chosen brand of left-liberalism (albeit with archaic revolutionary rhetoric.) You are tiresomely repetitive with it, as well. Some imagination required in SWP HQ perhaps?

I've never been to Tuscany. If you want to get personal, however, do the research: there are posts of mine where I referred to where I went on me hols, and I never even left this country. (Tell you what-if you find it, you can cut-and-paste it, like you do with everything else.) I've been to a lot of other places though, such as the ones you and I have argued about from time to time on other boards; arguments that showed up the inadequacy your substituting what the Sacred Texts of the Great Masters say for actually seeing things for yourself and drawing some conclusions. A lot of water has flowed under the bridge since the heyday of the failed Bolshevik experiment, tovarisch. Still, mantras can be comforting, I suppose.

Funny, too, that you, like so many of your fellow Robotrots, tend to throw out the 'teacher' accusations when you get frustrated by even the mildest of criticism of the dogmas that you hold most dear. You should know from other boards that this is something you share with plenty of the dullard far-right dogmatists, so many of whose traits you so unwittingly share (comes from being slaves to ideology): neither of you can genuninely accept the idea of any working class person who doesn't chant the approved recitations being able to articulate political opinions. Therefore thay must be 'teachers'. (It's always teachers; I wonder why....) However, I don't think half-term comes in the first two weeks of October anywhere (the period I was away), does it?

 

[LLETSA]

very original... yes I made a mistake, over a year ago, yes I learnt from it. Thats how life works funnily enough.

As for our No Platform policy, come along and find out if you give a toss... otherwise, what does it matter to you?

How come you haven't No Platformed Mr crying-on-the-phone-to-Nick Collett and his bushy eyebrowed buddy when they 'threatened' you by walking past your stall baring their teeth and going 'grrr'?

Surely a chance to put the Workers' Defence Squads on the map was missed there?

 

[LLETSA]

Laugh and the world laughs with you....

"
If any BNP were reading this they'd fucking laugh...

Undoubtedly. They've been laughing for a few years now. But not for the reasons you might be thinking.

 

[LLETSA]

Red Hippy's film of the moment?

I've encoutnered several people wearing bomber jackets with 'white power' 'white brotherhood' 'kkk' patches... skinheads, jackboots and pretty mean looking rotweiler's... whether they are WNP, nationalist alliance, BPP or any other nutty right-wing sect, the do the same fucking thing.... so why not give up the nit picking about who did what, where and which group they were in and accept from somebody who lives in Leeds that the fash are back on the street.

Kinky Boots. Tsk boom!

What do you get out of writing this kind of stuff? Is it the recreational drug experimentation that's distorting your already questionable perceptions?

I spent a weekend in Leeds back in May. And, while I saw a few 'mean looking rottweilers' (thankfully on leads), the whole of the time I was there I never saw a single person wearing jackboots. Obviously they need to start stocking 'em in Harvey Nics. Or maybe I just don't know the same clubs that you maybe frequent?

For 'somebody who lives in Leeds', you seem not to have noticed that, whatever they might be, the WNP/NA/BPP do not 'do the same things' as the BNP. That is why the BNP is a household name while almost nobody has ever heard o't'other lot. And helps explain why the former are proscribed by the BNP. You need to brush up on the facts before you start getting shirty, Hippy lad.