BNP national demo in Keighley
- Thread starter belboid
- Start date
No but it may well stop the vote growing beyond the core... difficult to know for sure.LLETSA said:
But in general media smear campaigns (true or invented) work very well against the left or radical workers (firefighters' strike etc.) so there's no reason they shouldn't work against the far right as well.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Fixating on past criminal convictions is absurd.
Are people who previously assaulted women or attacked people not allowed to be involved in politics?
Many ex-criminals have become lefties/socialists in one form or another etc etc.
The BNP currently does not use violence in any meaningful sense its strategy has changed.
Are people who previously assaulted women or attacked people not allowed to be involved in politics?
Many ex-criminals have become lefties/socialists in one form or another etc etc.
The BNP currently does not use violence in any meaningful sense its strategy has changed.
What on earth are you talking about?sihhi said:
They obviously have worked, cos if people took the BNP for what they claimed to be they'd be a lot more popular (left-wing economics, anti-immigration).
The fact is most people despise them and won't give them a second's serious thought cos they think (rightly) that they're fascist, racist, neo-nazis arseholes. This view is echoed/shaped by the mainstream media.
So what? It tars them in people's minds. It's not progressive to focus on criminal pasts like Searchlight can do, especially economic crimes which large numbers of poor people are forced into, but rapists + the like fair enough. And it will still damage the BNP's image in some (most) quarters.sihhi said:
icepick said:
On other boards I've often argued with 'BNP members' and others purporting to be on the far-right who talk as if they're the first organisation in history to be subjected to smear campaigns. I pointed out that, compared with what was dished out to the left and militant trade unionsists in the days when they were still considered a threat, they haven't seen anything yet.
However, I think it says something about what the left has become when sections of it are prepared to not only adopt the tactics their enemies used against them, but will even go as far as joining forces with elements among those enemies.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
icepick said:
Just so we're clear by- "they" I mean media smear stories.
So why is the BNP as LLETSA and others point out gaining support in spite of media smear stories?
See Joseph Rowntree Foundation report (PDF!)
http://www.jrrt.org.uk/Far_Right_REPORT.pdf
BNP's support has grown considerably since late 90s.
For the sake of comparison.
In France the FN were smeared to hell consistently throughout the 1990s and they still managed to grow. In spite of every single daily newspaper in France (to my knowledge) calling for a vote to Chirac in the Presidential elections- got nearly a fifth (18% I think) of the vote
icepick said:
But that core vote that doesn't care about the past criminal records of BNP members-primarily white working class people- are the BNP voters that any pro-working class forces should be most concerned about.
After all, it isn't as if the BNP, even in the most favourable situation for them, is ever going to have the power to transform society in the way they say they want to. The system would, however, prefer the 'lower elements' of the white working class to support a bunch of dead-end racists rather than any kind of dynamic working class movement.
sihhi said:
Those who have been the BNP's primary support base for the past few years: that section of the white working class who live on estates and in other areas that are perceived to have been-and often actually have been- neglected by local and central government.
I put the term in inverted commas, you will have noticed, but what I also meant was that any analysis would reveal this section of the working class to be at the bottom of the white working class pile economically.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
LLETSA said:
I get you- agreed. I also believe BNP support is significant amongst other cross-sections of the working class.
For instance young-ish working class males (18-25) not living on estates but in homes in centre/suburb still with their families in certain towns at least.
(As far as I understand Oldham etc have a more particular dynamic.)
Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
aha! Thats smart that is.LLETSA said:
So overall you don't think the state will let the BNP grow bigger than it is now?Is this whyb you don't see the point in antifascism rather than building that other 'kind of dynamic working class movement' ?
Taxamo Welf said:
I don't know if the state can entirely control how big the BNP gets, although I suspect that a lot of its intervention is designed to contain it in a situation where it is widely seen as a party which is mostly supported by what the liberal (and not so liberal) middle classes would consider the 'dumb white proles.'
I've never said that I 'don't see the point in antifacism.' What I have said is that I agree with those who point out that different tactics are appropriate to different situations.
Larry O'Hara
Well-Known Member
cockneyrebel said:
Unless I am very much mistaken, this guy turned out to have close family connections with Oldham Labour Party, and there is (more) than a hint of suspicion he was tasked to enter the BNP by either them and/or local Special Branch, with precisely the propaganda effect his 'exposure' had. Anyway, haven't the SWP/UAF fallen out with Searchlight this month--in which case,if you wouldn't accept their characterisation of you as accurate, why should their reportage of anybody else be accurate either?
In short, Searchlight is & always has been a secret state disinformation sewage outlet--and the SWP/UAF are rightly tinged by association.
There is no doubring the racist crminality of some BNP members--but as pointed out elsewhere on this thread, the 'criminal' tag is no substitute for political contestation, indeed it wasn't in Weimar Germany either. Not that the BNP are 'Nazi', but the point stands. And as for contestation, the stance taken by UAF/SWP/Respect on accusations of paedophilia in Keighley is diametrically opposed to that which is actually required to defeat the BNP. So, no change there then.
Yeah totally - especially as much of the media does actually push a pro-BNP policy agenda, and win them probably almost all the support they do have (especially outside their activist stronghold areas).LLETSA said:
Again, true. I hope that's not what you're accusing me of, cos I'm not saying that searchlight/media smears are great, just that they do damage the BNP. Generally I think the idea of exposing the true nature of the BNP + its leadership is politically useful (though not attacking them for having been pressured into economic or possibly minor violent crime, since this happens to a large proportion of the poor w/c).
Are you being serious? Of course I know it's grown. It's still tiny though. The reason for this is most people think/know that they're a bunch of racist, violent, fascist dicks! Are you saying that if the media stopped printing anti-BNP stories and started printing pro-BNP ones, that would have no effect as well?sihhi said:
icepick said:
Actually just about every national and regional paper has run front page and 'exclusive' invetigations into the BNP telling every one how nasty they are.
icepick said:Yeah totally - especially as much of the media does actually push a pro-BNP policy agenda, and win them probably almost all the support they do have (especially outside their activist stronghold areas).
Are you being serious? Of course I know it's grown. It's still tiny though. The reason for this is most people think/know that they're a bunch of racist, violent, fascist dicks! Are you saying that if the media stopped printing anti-BNP stories and started printing pro-BNP ones, that would have no effect as well?
Nobody's saying that. But you cannot rely on this stuff when it has clearly not stalled an alarming growth in the BNP in recent years. Indeed the "dangerous", anti-establishment credentials it gives them may have actually won them votes in some alienated communities.
To talk of nearly a million BNP votes as "tiny" is complacent in the extreme. I really don't know why so many on the left prefer to pretend they are still the fringe movement they were 15 or 20 years ago as opposed to the very different, and much more dangerous, beast they are today.
Late to this thread, so apologies if this has already been posted.
According to a report on www.libcom.org, the Home Secretary has signed a banning order for the 5th November BNP protest.
They are apparently going to make the banned protest a 'day of activity' however.
According to a report on www.libcom.org, the Home Secretary has signed a banning order for the 5th November BNP protest.
They are apparently going to make the banned protest a 'day of activity' however.
Chuck Wilson said:
but at the same time they alos run stories on asylum seekers, muslim terrorists, the invasion of our borders. While they pay lip service and denounce them as the nasty gang there stories of fear feed into the larger framework of BNP propoganda.
The BNP are growing and have moved from strength to strength.
cockneyrebel
New Member
Run for the hills.......
Harold Hill
Jay Emm forgot his p/word
So in the space of one thread the BNP are growing, very dangerous, not that big, trying to look respectable and threatening activists in Leeds at the same time.
To those that keep asking to the critics of the march 'Well what would you do' well why don;t the UAF do their own investigation and then campaign for justice for any victims of paedophiles in Keighley'. I've not heard of anyone being attacked off the back of this (if I'm wrong then please show me) so if Rebel is making a big song and dance about this and nothing about the accusations that kids are being abused then hes more fcuked up in the head than I thought.
PC had a point about the policeman. I'm more than willing to bet that the consensus amongst some on the ground in Keighley upon hearing there were Muslim and white people arrested was 'Well they would say that wouldn't they'. After what happened around the date of the original time the doc was due to air, many might think WYP are more concerned about BNP publicity rather than the public being made aware of an alleged ring of paedophiles in their area. I wouldn't be surprised if the meddling just help galvanise the BNP vote even more.
And anyone who thinks you could convince parents up there that something that would possibly affect their childs safety is more important than the BNP scoring a few extra votes lives in a funny old world.
To those that keep asking to the critics of the march 'Well what would you do' well why don;t the UAF do their own investigation and then campaign for justice for any victims of paedophiles in Keighley'. I've not heard of anyone being attacked off the back of this (if I'm wrong then please show me) so if Rebel is making a big song and dance about this and nothing about the accusations that kids are being abused then hes more fcuked up in the head than I thought.
PC had a point about the policeman. I'm more than willing to bet that the consensus amongst some on the ground in Keighley upon hearing there were Muslim and white people arrested was 'Well they would say that wouldn't they'. After what happened around the date of the original time the doc was due to air, many might think WYP are more concerned about BNP publicity rather than the public being made aware of an alleged ring of paedophiles in their area. I wouldn't be surprised if the meddling just help galvanise the BNP vote even more.
And anyone who thinks you could convince parents up there that something that would possibly affect their childs safety is more important than the BNP scoring a few extra votes lives in a funny old world.
audiotech
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Harold Hill said:
I went to an apparent 'anti-racist concert' in Keighley last Saturday, organised and very much controlled by Keighley Town Council, with proceeds going to the Mayor's charity appeal.
Very few people turned out. Reading comments from those organising it there has been some strange things going off. One poster made the point that Keighley Town Council told Love Music Hate Racism, ANL and UAF '...not to get involved in anything to do with Keighley...'
audiotech
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A five-mile exclusion "cordon" is to be thrown around Keighley on bonfire night in a bid to keep right and left wing extremists out of town.
http://www.thisisbradford.co.uk/bradford__district/keighley/news/KEIG_NEWS0.html
http://www.thisisbradford.co.uk/bradford__district/keighley/news/KEIG_NEWS0.html
