kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Just a thought fox for myself based on Iain M Banks The Culture and their attitude toward information was all...besides your two criteria are so vague, especially the first one, as to be almost valueless.
BNP membership list has been put online.
- Thread starter audiotech
- Start date
Just a thought fox for myself based on Iain M Banks The Culture and their attitude toward information was all...besides your two criteria are so vague, especially the first one, as to be almost valueless.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
They're very interesting books - a Marxist techno-utopia that isn't 100% utopian, but there are plenty of threads about it, even A Few Notes on The Culture if yr interested...
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Well, if that's true then there's no doubt that it is entirely inconsistent. I would be interested to see the link.
It would be exactly the kind of inconsistency I'd try to point out to someone who had been taken in by their propaganda to try and persuade them that they had signed up to an organisation with an irrational and contradictory ideology.
But they want to give different legal rights to different 'races': they mention preferences for jobs and a policy of 'motivating' certain people to leave the UK. How can this not be racist?
For example: "We will ensure a major shift to healthier and more sustainable organic farming" ?
Could someone excuse themself by saying they liked the BNP's policy on organic agriculture?
You may well have a point about the beliefs of people who are on the list or who end up voting BNP, but I don't think you are correct in saying that the BNP itself - including its manifesto policies - is not racist, when they seem to make clear references to people's race and propose that different laws be applied to people on this basis.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I agree with all you say except the bit I've put in bold.
I would equate it with people who sign up for loads of credit cards they can't afford by exploitative lenders, or elderly people being double glazing they don't need, or victims of email scams or suchlike. All it takes is the right combination of circumstance, gullibility and good sales technique.
I didn't say that.
You mentioned journalists not wanting to write about people if they knew they would be open to scrutiny themselves.
My point is that while journalists are usually named, there would be a lot of people accessing and using the information who are not 'named' - ie if people could access all sorts of nformation about you, you might never know who had access this information and decided that they didn't want to emply you. You might also get anonymous abuse and harassment from people who decided that they didn't like the political organisation or NGO you were associated with.
If this abuse was anonymous you could not Google the attackers up in return and do something back to them.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Well, I think it's debatable whether or not the BNP as expressed through its manifesto policies is necessarily racist. It's not really an accusation I want to try defending them against, because like I said earlier I do reckon that in reality, not very far under the surface, they are. I was only really arguing the point as a way of trying to take the point of view of someone who might sign up to them.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
If this was just a list of names and addresses of bnp members with no other information, then this bollocks about little old grannies who'd joined up by mistake being targeted would be valid.
Handily though the list actually gives information about who is actually a bnp activist, thus allowing the targeting of active supporters only - that is if anyone was to use this list to target supporters in anyway.
It can also be used to narrow things down even further to work out who the regional / local area co-ordinators are - ie. who's actually responsible for distributing the leaflets that go to the activists to go through people's doors / stickers to go on lamposts etc. meaning if they overstep the mark with their publicity crap (or worse), then they can be targeted directly for an appropriate response. Responses need not be violent btw.
Handily though the list actually gives information about who is actually a bnp activist, thus allowing the targeting of active supporters only - that is if anyone was to use this list to target supporters in anyway.
It can also be used to narrow things down even further to work out who the regional / local area co-ordinators are - ie. who's actually responsible for distributing the leaflets that go to the activists to go through people's doors / stickers to go on lamposts etc. meaning if they overstep the mark with their publicity crap (or worse), then they can be targeted directly for an appropriate response. Responses need not be violent btw.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
Is anyone going to continue to argue that it's not a racially discriminatory party now?
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Well how does that explain the membership of Cllr. Lawrence Rustem who is half Turkish Cypriot?!
. Part of Turkey is in Europe as well lol....In answer to my own question:
Apparently under UK law, for "clubs, associations and charities set up especially for people from a particular ethnic or national group ... discrimination on the basis of nationality or ethnic or national origin is not unlawful, but discrimination based on colour is prohibited."
I am guessing that the BNP uses "British or kindred European ethnic descent" to get around UK law - they are not allowed to say "white".
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Bloody hell - Guardian have just put up a 'far right map' of Britain 
Seems there are very few members in London. Not what I would have expected.
Seems there are very few members in London. Not what I would have expected.
Meltingpot
Living in our pools we soon forget about the sea
Not necessarily, but in practice they almost always go together. It's just possible to believe that there are cultures which when taken on their own are perfectly OK but which cause trouble when mixed together, but it's not a position you hear expressed very often. Almost always, the same people who say than culture A would cause problems if they were mixed with culture B are also saying there's something wrong with culture A and / or the people who compose it.
I am guessing that the BNP in reality operates a 'whites only' policy but can't say so as it is illegal under UK law, hence the mangled phrase "British or kindred European ethnic descent".
I am also guessing that they probably regard the afementioned Cllr. Lawrence Rustem as 'white' in their eyes.
In other words I am guessing that to them:
"British or kindred European ethnic descent" = "white"
and
"white" = "British or kindred European ethnic descent"
Why don't you go and have a look at ther website?
www.nbpa.co.uk
It says:
"The definition of "Black" does not refer to skin colour. The emphasis is on the common experience and determination of the people of African, African-Caribbean and Asian origin to oppose the effects of racism. Everyone within policing is eligible to join the NBPA (There is no barrier to membership)"
(see top right hand corner of page)
free spirit
more tea vicar?
possibly... it's not he only possible outcome though is it, and the list will at least enable much better targeting of any attacks that do occur to avoid attacking innocent people.
with the info on that list it'd be incredibly easy to verify if the person being targeted still lived at a certain address, ensure children aren't present etc. to ensure that the wrong people aren't targeted by mistake.
without the list it's all based on hearsay and assumptions, so accidentally attacking the wrong people is much more likely to happen.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
perhaps people mistaken for paedo's deserved a beating, or muslims for terrorists.
eggs and omlettes eh?
eggs and omlettes eh?
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
I have used statistical analysis, but I too wouldn't be daft enough to extrapolate such data as to your latter example.
Neither would I extrapolate data, with regards to your former point regarding Lancaster. My aim is not, as you assert to 'maximise the numbers who seem to have left', but rather to examine, and when necessary challenge who is more knowledgeable about the real figures of BNP membership?
Hill believes Griffin lied about the 10,000 membership claim. I tend to agree, however, I would disagree with Hill's suggestion that the BNP membership is about 6,000 now.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
btw I'm not condoning or condemning the use of targeted violence against BNP activists here, just pointing out that publishing of the list should actually make any targeting much more accurate than it would have been in the past, and therefore reduce the chances of the wrong person being targeted - contrary to what several posters have been arguing / implying.
that postcode tracker is a different matter though as it makes no differentiation between activists and members or even exmembers.
that postcode tracker is a different matter though as it makes no differentiation between activists and members or even exmembers.
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